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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

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gringo2011 said:
Bottoming out is no good but (1) we literally moved out GOPs and replaced them with similar GOPs at maximum value. We did the absolutely bizarre move of hoping that Coffield, Clark, King and Ben Paton were enough youth to build around and topped up hard like a top 8 side just off the top rungs. (2)No eye on long term planning for success. Pure sugar hit stuff.

(3) Like the Hawks and Adelaide did and us now, sides find their level through natural selection. We play too many youth we fall back a bit. (4)We play seniors only we are competitive in the immediate future but long term get a slower or less pay off. Well run footy departments can stay enjoyably competitive while bringing through the future.

A good recruiter that nails the high picks and finds a few gems makes a huge difference.
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yeah some good points there.
1. Maximum value yes, but we are a subsidized team. We are a welfare team and we need to spend. In an open market there is no way we pay for Hannebury, Hill etc. There is, of course, limits and degrees of common sense even here, and to be honest, we probably crossed it with Hannebury. Personally, I think we should have picked up the other Crouch.
2. I think staying competitive IS long term planning. I don’t believe in the media spin about staying stuck in the middle of the ladder is a curse. I think, for us it is a blessing and an opportunity. EDIT: It is NOT nor should be an aspiration. It is an accommodation. Of course they go with the populist narratives. They go with ‘the old story’ , the trope.
3. I don’t know what you mean here by natural selection. Can you explain more?
4. Mnnn, yes, but I can’t help comparing. Teams like Geelong a Brisbane and Hawthorn and Adelaide trade. And they play old.
 
phantom13 said:
All the concessions and father sons and ngas, in my opinion, don’t account for about 120 of our 151 years and the fact that we’d be close to if not the MOST unsuccessful professional sporting organisation in the world is hard to ignore.
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It's probably worth separating the early years from the latter. The wonderful book "The Point of it All" highlights the idiosyncrasies of this football club, for better and for worse. But our recent history (90s onwards)

I feel like this forum needs a separate "thread of sorrow" where we lament things out of our control, as well as some the decisions the club had made. We need somewhere to get it out of our systems.

In particular, the journey since finals in the early 90s. I think you can make a case that luck in some instances went against us in a way that suggests the footy gods haven't been fond of us. Off the top of my head with finals;

97 - losing ruckmen in the lead up, personal tumult for Loewe and Winmar, the Jarman quarter. One that got away. Opponents were worthy winners but we could have won on the day.

04/05. Almost snuck GF appearances, prelim crowd invasion, Guerra toe poke, Lions limping into GF. Maybe a sneaky one that got away.

09/10. The Hitting the post goal, the toe poke, the Milne bounce, the possibility of extra time in GF draws. Two that got away. Opponents were worthy winners but we could have won on the day.

But also things that were partly or wholly in our control
  • drafting decisions that didn't pay off, either through circumstances or poor drafting (I think these have been mentioned elsewhere on this forum)
  • Losing iconic generational players we can't really afford to lose
  • Not attracting players who were available
  • Seaford
  • The deal at Docklands
  • The draw
  • the power of having a small but loyal following
  • the Save our saints campaign and the cents in the dollar deals for loyal staff and players.

I could go on and share my reflections of 1983-88 but I would need some sort of NSFW tag to not breach the Big Footy terms of use. And probably some sort of indemnity.
 
cowboy18 said:
It's probably worth separating the early years from the latter. The wonderful book "The Point of it All" highlights the idiosyncrasies of this football club, for better and for worse. But our recent history (90s onwards)

I feel like this forum needs a separate "thread of sorrow" where we lament things out of our control, as well as some the decisions the club had made. We need somewhere to get it out of our systems.

In particular, the journey since finals in the early 90s. I think you can make a case that luck in some instances went against us in a way that suggests the footy gods haven't been fond of us. Off the top of my head with finals;

97 - losing ruckmen in the lead up, personal tumult for Loewe and Winmar, the Jarman quarter. One that got away. Opponents were worthy winners but we could have won on the day.

04/05. Almost snuck GF appearances, prelim crowd invasion, Guerra toe poke, Lions limping into GF. Maybe a sneaky one that got away.

09/10. The Hitting the post goal, the toe poke, the Milne bounce, the possibility of extra time in GF draws. Two that got away. Opponents were worthy winners but we could have won on the day.

But also things that were partly or wholly in our control
  • drafting decisions that didn't pay off, either through circumstances or poor drafting (I think these have been mentioned elsewhere on this forum)
  • Losing iconic generational players we can't really afford to lose
  • Not attracting players who were available
  • Seaford
  • The deal at Docklands
  • The draw
  • the power of having a small but loyal following
  • the Save our saints campaign and the cents in the dollar deals for loyal staff and players.

I could go on and share my reflections of 1983-88 but I would need some sort of NSFW tag to not breach the Big Footy terms of use. And probably some sort of indemnity.
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Fair although as has been pointed out a stack of times now a number of the past decisions are still impacting us now.
 

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bergholt said:
Personally I'm just coping as I best can - if he re-signs then that's great but (without any inside info) doesn't look good to me at this point
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Same, always thought he would stay as he seems really close with Windy and Owens but round 16 and still nothing is a huge worry when it’s your best player
 
Has it been reported anywhere what our actual financial offer is to NAS? I've read it's that we will match anything on offer from the SA clubs but surely we are on the front foot and putting a godfather offer larger then then the SA clubs for him to sign long term...
 
BucketsandBanger said:
Has it been reported anywhere what our actual financial offer is to NAS? I've read it's that we will match anything on offer from the SA clubs but surely we are on the front foot and putting a godfather offer larger then then the SA clubs for him to sign long term...
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Just reported that we can and will match any offer but for Nas it’s not about who is offering the biggest $$ contract.

It’s either locking into a career in vic with us or going home to be with family
 
stavro#4 said:
Just reported that we can and will match any offer but for Nas it’s not about who is offering the biggest $$ contract.

It’s either locking into a career in vic with us or going home to be with family
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The choices have been obvious for ages for Nas and his management, and I suspect his management is pushing this out. Members need to get on the club's back and get this resolved.
 
stavro#4 said:
Just reported that we can and will match any offer but for Nas it’s not about who is offering the biggest $$ contract.

It’s either locking into a career in vic with us or going home to be with family
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Who knows what's actually true, but saying we'll match offers doesn't seem particularly proactive to me.
 
Mowman said:
Same, always thought he would stay as he seems really close with Windy and Owens but round 16 and still nothing is a huge worry when it’s your best player
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Whenever we're faced with an important player potentially leaving I think back to how we felt when Plugger left.

That really seemed like it would be the death knell of the club. An unfathomable loss for those of us who had been through the heartbreak of 91 & 91 & then the implosion of 93.

It really seemed like we were bound for another decade of 1980's like hell.

When Freo came calling with massive deals for Loewe & Burkey 12 months later it looked even more dire.

But when they re-signed it was like the club had a new lease on life.

Not gonna try to sugar coat it... losing Nas would be a Plugger like event.

But I do have confidence that if that does eventuate, we have the people in place to make good decisions & add multiple young talents to the group we already have.
 
Sully111 said:
Who knows what's actually true, but saying we'll match offers doesn't seem particularly proactive to me.
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And if the money isn’t the most important factor - what difference does it make?

Let’s not blend 2 things into one.

He is going to be on a million plus next season at any of the 3 clubs.

It’s about where he wants to play.
 

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stavro#4 said:
Just reported that we can and will match any offer but for Nas it’s not about who is offering the biggest $$ contract.

It’s either locking into a career in vic with us or going home to be with family
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Does the last paragraph indicate that if NWM re-signs with Saints it is likely to be long term?

If so, that would partly explain why he is taking so long to make a decision.

I’ve never thought he would re-sign a short term contract to stay with the Saints and any deal would be at least 4 years (to take him to free agency).

I’m wondering whether NWM might be genuinely mulling over re-signing with the Saints for a LOT longer than even that. If so, this is not just a football decision.

It’s also interesting that nobody has a clue what he is doing. Nothing is being leaked which is unusual, normally the media gets a whiff of what big name players is likely to do. His inner circle is clearly tight and small.

NWM is entitled to take his take his time, much to our frustration.

Hopefully we are all going to be pleasantly surprised.
 
St Neil said:
Does the last paragraph indicate that if NWM re-signs with Saints it is likely to be long term?

If so, that would partly explain why he is taking so long to make a decision.

I’ve never thought he would re-sign a short term contract to stay with the Saints and any deal would be at least 4 years (to take him to free agency).

I’m wondering whether NWM might be genuinely mulling over re-signing with the Saints for a LOT longer than even that. If so, this is not just a football decision.

It’s also interesting that nobody has a clue what he is doing. Nothing is being leaked which is unusual, normally the media gets a whiff of what big name players is likely to do. His inner circle is clearly tight and small.

NWM is entitled to take his take his time, much to our frustration.

Hopefully we are all going to be pleasantly surprised.
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No idea Neil.
 

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Hawks re-signed Noah Mraz to 2028

Hopefully we go after one of their other depth key defenders; Blanck, Serong, Frost even as backup

They've even got Scrimshaw playing in the 2s right now
 
stavro#4 said:
And if the money isn’t the most important factor - what difference does it make?

Let’s not blend 2 things into one.

He is going to be on a million plus next season at any of the 3 clubs.

It’s about where he wants to play.
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Money might not be the most important factor... but it's always a factor, and can potentially change things, particularly if someone is on the fence.
 
dudeintheswamp said:
With our so called warchest, one would assume there's been a godfather offer to blow the other clubs away, a la TDK?

To quote a good film, "money talks, bullshit walks."
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Exactly mate. I would hate to think we're trying to be clever here.

If we have to lose TDK to keep Nas, so be it. Imagine what we'd offer Nas to get him from another club....
 
Sully111 said:
Exactly mate. I would hate to think we're trying to be clever here.

If we have to lose TDK to keep Nas, so be it. Imagine what we'd offer Nas to get him from another club....
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Agree forget about TDK make NAS a once in a lifetime offer where he can set himself and whole family up if that what he wants

1.7 a year for a ruck is madness imo
 
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