List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[stavro#4]

We have got heaps of kids and need to still be using our FRDPs in the draft. We have promised to stay competitive while building. Getting younger is sending us to Richmond levels of competitiveness.

If they are going full bottom out again we need to be told by the club and move on most of the board. It will be another U-turn and complete betrayal of the messaging that they have given members. Probably should look at a different more up to date coaching set up too.

We are winning just as many games with Webster hill etc as we would with Tauru Travaglia

They have been rebuilding on the fly since Ross got here. How are most posters across this but you aren’t?

 

[gringo2011]

We've been shedding 2 or so elder established players and blooding kids for the last few seasons. This offseason looks like the same with Marshall, Steele, Webster, Howard all possibly in the gun for various reasons. Hill won't be far behind next year.

Wouldn't call it a rebuild just transitioning the list from old to young step by step to avoid going full North Melbourne mode.

I'd say we drop below North next year if we shed Steele and Marshall and those guys are all on the down hill run. Probably sit just ahead of Richmond and WCE unless our youth have a massive surge. Probably push finals out for another few seasons. Not what we were promised.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I'd say we drop below North next year if we shed Steele and Marshall and those guys are all on the down hill run. Probably sit just ahead of Richmond and WCE unless our youth have a massive surge. Probably push finals out for another few seasons. Not what we were promised.

Have been hearing this for a few seasons now, hasn’t happened. Not even close.

 

[gringo2011]

We are winning just as many games with Webster hill etc as we would with Tauru Travaglia

They have been rebuilding on the fly since Ross got here. How are most posters across this but you aren’t?

You obviously don't realise that young sides become very uncompetitive. If you have too many kids in the side you get massive inconsistency. The old guys might not be great and even on individual output look as good but they help keep the side structurally solid and let the youth run free to play on their skills.

North Melbourne would be playing in a GF if all you had to do was stack quality youth into the side. They certainly wouldn't be going after old guys to top up if they just needed more kids.

We were promised competitive and we are going backwards every year.

 

[gringo2011]

Have been hearing this for a few seasons now, hasn’t happened. Not even close.

We are going backwards every year. The only place to go backwards from here is bottom 3. Take away more of the older players and we start to look like Richmond.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Only 4 years younger. If Marshall is cooked now in year 8 what will $1.7 and an 8th of the cap TDK look like?

I don't disagree.

Its overs for sure. I'm not 100% convinced we couldn't manage it but would prefer we didn't take the risk.

If we got a great pick for Marshall and TDK becomes elite that would be ideal though. (But that's a huge if)

 

[Dard Ball Get]

We are going backwards every year. The only place to go backwards from here is bottom 3. Take away more of the older players and we start to look like Richmond.

And trends continue in perpetuity of course. Certainly can’t see any green shoots of course. Not missing key pillars of course.

 

[stavro#4]

You obviously don't realise that young sides become very uncompetitive. If you have too many kids in the side you get massive inconsistency. The old guys might not be great and even on individual output look as good but they help keep the side structurally solid and let the youth run free to play on their skills.

North Melbourne would be playing in a GF if all you had to do was stack quality youth into the side. They certainly wouldn't be going after old guys to top up if they just needed more kids.

We were promised competitive and we are going backwards every year.

Correct me if I’m wrong gringo. But aren’t king Sharman nas windy and Owens etc. going to be there or thereabouts 100 games next year by seasons end?

Aren’t Wilson Pou caminiti garcia going to be there abouts 50 games?

Seems like the tipping point is coming where the signs we see should start to translate to consistent afl level footballers.

 

[gringo2011]

And trends continue in perpetuity of course. Certainly can’t see any green shoots of course. Not missing key pillars of course.

Exactly, North will rapidly improve at some point.If we push the balance too young we will go the other way.

I thought you hated Max King? Doggrel is the answer to anything. Of course there are plenty of green shoots the list has been repaired a lot but we are talking of culling older players which gets us more draft capital but also has a very real possibility of sending us backwards.

If we don't play finals while Wilkie, Sincs etc are still here it is going to be another soft rebuild. We are still trying to paper over cracks from past mistakes but we have to avoid bringing in cane toads to stop the beetles.

The middle age bracket players just aren't there to pick up the slack for when the older guys step out. It's a really clunky looking list.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Exactly, North will rapidly improve at some point.If we push the balance too young we will go the other way.

I thought you hated Max King? Doggrel is the answer to anything. Of course there are plenty of green shoots the list has been repaired a lot but we are talking of culling older players which gets us more draft capital but also has a very real possibility of sending us backwards.

If we don't play finals while Wilkie, Sincs etc are still here it is going to be another soft rebuild. We are still trying to paper over cracks from past mistakes but we have to avoid bringing in cane toads to stop the beetles.

The middle age bracket players just aren't there to pick up the slack for when the older guys step out. It's a really clunky looking list.

 

[gringo2011]

Correct me if I’m wrong gringo. But aren’t king Sharman nas windy and Owens etc. going to be there or thereabouts 100 games next year by seasons end?

Aren’t Wilson Pou caminiti garcia going to be there abouts 50 games?

Seems like the tipping point is coming where the signs we see should start to translate to consistent afl level footballers.

They are but not one of the 100 gamers look elite. The 50 gamers still need a fair bit of experience around them to help prop them up. Players usually find a level of consistency around 50 games but peak in their mid 20s and 100+ games.

North are an example of how players without mature support end up losing competitiveness. We are in a phase where getting a few cheap top ups with later picks and using high picks or condensing them up to target draftees is good management. Melbourne where moving up to target Oliver and Pickett types at this point.

We need to be competitive next year and try for a flag with in 3 or it gets a lot harder. We need better training services and list management needs to tread really carefully or they could easily **** it up.

 

[gringo2011]

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I'm still happy with the list build but don't want to start cutting too hard. It's not hard to understand Darp.

 

[stavro#4]

They are but not one of the 100 gamers look elite. The 50 gamers still need a fair bit of experience around them to help prop them up. Players usually find a level of consistency around 50 games but peak in their mid 20s and 100+ games.

North are an example of how players without mature support end up losing competitiveness. We are in a phase where getting a few cheap top ups with later picks and using high picks or condensing them up to target draftees is good management. Melbourne where moving up to target Oliver and Pickett types at this point.

We need to be competitive next year and try for a flag with in 3 or it gets a lot harder. We need better training services and list management needs to tread really carefully or they could easily **** it up.

Nas will be at or around 100 games. Superstar.

Owens similar games. Very good - flashes elite. Would be considered higher in the game at a better club.

Tauru looks a blue chip elite talent after 3 games.

Pou showed it back half of last year and again v Carlton first game back.

It’s hardly like we don’t have blue chip talent.

It’s easier to run on the Higgins timeline narrative than the Steele and Marshall one. We won’t be winning shit in the next 12 months. So that’s already a third of the way through your timeline. It’s just unrealistic and heaps pressure. Which is odd as you often claim to build via the draft and not want quick fixes.

 

[stfan]

We need to be competitive next year and try for a flag with in 3 or it gets a lot harder. We need better training services and list management needs to tread really carefully or they could easily **** it up.

We in particular need improved ballskills (which is both technical as well as being able to decide where to place the ball)...whether that is through training and/or list changes.

 

[stfan]

Travaglia collard Pou King all missing from that side last night. That’s 4 FRPs

Yes agree we had good young high end talent out. But Collard at Pick 28 is not really a true FRP in terms of talent which is what we are actually concerned about.. ie Not in the best 18 available.

 

[beside the seaside]

If we trade Marshall we will get eff all for him. Surely we just try him in a one two punch with TDK?

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm still happy with the list build but don't want to start cutting too hard. It's not hard to understand Darp.

I think it is because you are a bit all over the place with your logic.
1. You don't want TDK because it costs to much ( a lot of money but nobody here knows how our SC and TPP has been structured let alone the offer to TDK). This is a fair position.
2. You want us to look at Moneyball rucks like a Moyle and a moneyball mid like Erasmus or Flanders. However all will cost draft capital.
3. Currently we have dps 4, 40 (3rd round), 60 (4th round) and probably some later ones. Pick 40 is probably for our NGA
4. You don't want to use our frdp to use in trades and draft the best possible mid. ( which is a fair position).
5. You don't want to trade out players who have worth draft capital like Marshall and Steele.

So the question is, how do we trade in 2 or 3 players from other clubs all costing draft picks when we are using pick 4, and 40 only and only have pick 60, bearing in mind we need to draft three players minimum but you don't want to trade out players who will get us decent picks to use?

In your scenario we can only use future dps taking into account the above scenario's ( your rules remember).

This leaves us with
1. Millions in SC that needs to be used or lost and;
2. Using our future dps to top up with B graders from other clubs, the exact scenario you have been railing about for 6 years. You want us to sell our future when the drafting hasn't finished.
Basically this is why it is so hard to follow your different views on drafting and trading, because they aren't logical when taking in current AFL trading rules.

 

[PJays]

If what is being reported is true, I still think matching other offers doesn't cut it. You want to do everything you can to entice this man to sign a long term deal. No way he signs 6-8 years on 1.2.

If St Kilda has "more cap room than any club at any time in AFL history" (which makes sense given rising caps and 4 year bring forward), and they're only offering NWM $1.2mil when he's being hotly pursued by two other clubs.....then someone should call time on the St Kilda football club.

Lock the doors, bulldoze Moorabbin, and I'll support the Tassie Devils.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes agree we had good young high end talent out. But Collard at Pick 28 is not really a true FRP in terms of talent which is what we are actually concerned about.. ie Not in the best 18 available.

That is true, but unlike most true second round picks - he has the talent of a FRP, there are move developmental issues that had collard sliding back to pick 28 and we see that now.

He needs size & strength to his frame first and foremost. He needs to make an impact without having the ball fall for him secondly.

 

[stkilda7894]

If we had King and Marshall forward last night, and TDK in the ruck, we win that game. I cannot stress how important it will be to have TDK at our club next year.

 

[Saint Shags]

We get rid of Marshall and Steele, you better hope that you have replacements.

Because otherwise we are banking on players that haven't been able to get on the park due to their bodies.

All well and good to see the hope in King and Pou. But King has had significant injury issues the last 3 years.
And whilst Pou had a couple of good games toward the tail end of last year. Id hate to be placing all the pressure on him.

We need to convince Marshall that we need him alongside TDK. We need at least 1 big tall target. Our number 1 target cannot be Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

.

 

[_Maximus_12]

We will have more talent on our list next year than we have had since 2009 and I’d argue that the talent will run deeper than then too.
Plenty to like about what we’re doing

 

[marcus1232]

If we had King and Marshall forward last night, and TDK in the ruck, we win that game. I cannot stress how important it will be to have TDK at our club next year.

Also from what I can gather his contract would be heavily front loaded as it is money we have to spend or lose it.

Its basically just a perfect storm and TDK is going to be the beneficiary if he comes across.

Also is what I am hearing correct that NAS contract is basically a rolling 2 year contract with incentives ?

 

[Saint Shags]

We will have more talent on our list next year than we have had since 2009 and I’d argue that the talent will run deeper than then too.
Plenty to like about what we’re doing

I'm sorry but what are you smoking. Because I want some.

 

[Linton Street Saint]

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Left alone in a room ol' JR Gringo would argue with themselves