List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[stavro#4]

Or let's get a middling ruckman for 500k a year more than he is worth and lose the best player in the league.
If the list manager allows this to happen it will be put the rebuild 5 years, Joey Montagna's words not mine.

You don't think he is worth what he is asking? If the list manager loses NWM he deserves nothing less than the sack.

This is ten times worse than losing Plugger. This would be a disaster of unprecedented proportions.

And why do you think he leaves after 2 years? We then have two seasons to prove we are on the right track.

If we lose him, we have had him for two more years and will get much more in capital than we will get this year.

We were sooooo smart with Battle. Even Mitchell could predict us. We lowballed him and at the last minute matched the offer. Mitchell told Battle this exact scenario.
No wonder managers think we are the worst in the AFL.

Yes, we are on the right track with no new talent and our one FRP next year.

The ruck is as good as Marshall. Younger and then allows us to play himwith Marshall or trade Marshall on for more talent.

It’s been done to death.

And no, it’s not ten times worse than plugger

 

[Joffaboy]

People still going with the D grade movie negotiation tactics.
Deary me.

Yeah let's be real hard edged like we were with Battle.
We are turning into Timu Dodoro, hard to deal with, real whiley negotiators, however instead of landing B grade manlets we allow key positions and the best player in the league walk because we are just so tough canny and three moves ahead

 

[Mystifly]

It would be absurd for any manager to expect a club to match the heavily front loaded part of a long term deal in the short term contract requested.

I understand the want to keep him at all costs but we are doing nothing wrong not paying an extra 600k per season on top of the 1.4mil we are already offering just so it matches the highest individual year amount an SA club is offering.

Sounds like what Swans did with Chad Warner though. Not sure what offers were from WA teams but by all reports he will be getting over $2.5m over the next 2 years.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Yeah let's be real hard edged like we were with Battle.
We are turning into Timu Dodoro, hard to deal with, real whiley negotiators, however instead of landing B grade manlets we allow key positions and the best player in the league walk because we are just so tough canny and three moves ahead

Easily conned aren’t you Jop

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Said it a 100 times SOS is a clown

He just doesnt inspire confidence does he! He is such a dour miserable individual publicly, that would have to come through in any list negotiations. The one he has done well though is get the salary cap to a healthy state, lets see how he goes after he starts paying Millions for players again ala Carlton.

 

[SainterinSydney]

 

[stavro#4]

This is silly. ^ Length of contract = lower contract in situations of players who set the terms.

The shorter contract should be higher.

Commitment to the club.,…it’s 2025. Commitment to the club… like the club shows commitment to the players. The club will get rid of these guys in one second if they need to. It’s our job to show him in the two years why he should stay.

Good players are in positions where they don’t have to stay in rubbish environments.

I think as someone said above. It’s evident that us throwing mass money to other kids around the comp is pushing BW/Naz to rightly so ask for more. It’s not about commitment ffs.

Silly?

Silly is offering your cap space in the hope your player MIGHT sign on for the long term.

The player isn’t worse off and if it’s about signing a deal that gets him $2m the next 2 years it should also be of the same length as what he is getting elsewhere.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yes, we are on the right track with no new talent and our one FRP next year.

The ruck is as good as Marshall. Younger and then allows us to play himwith Marshall or trade Marshall on for more talent.

It’s been done to death.

And no, it’s not ten times worse than plugger

We have no new talent? Why has Lyon turned over 23 players then?
Proves what mowman has been saying about SoS then.
The ruck is as good as Marshall? So we are paying millions to stand still and are at risk of losing the best player in the league?
Brilliant work.
Why is LDU worth 1.7 a year? Why is Rowell worth 2 mill a year? Why is TDK worth 1.7 a year?
None of them.as good as NWM but we offer 1.4 a year.
Holy Hell what a mess.

 

[BrutThough]

Sounds like what Swans did with Chad Warner though. Not sure what offers were from WA teams but by all reports he will be getting over $2.5m over the next 2 years.

That's about 1.3-1.4m per season which is probably what the WA clubs were offering him per season and what we would be expecting happens if Nas stays.

But some posters want us to "match" the front loaded amount of the SA clubs deals rather then the total per year. And it would be unreasonable for any manager to expect us to do that.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

People still going with the D grade movie negotiation tactics.
Deary me.

 

[Ads734]

Silly?

Silly is offering your cap space in the hope your player MIGHT sign on for the long term.

The player isn’t worse off and if it’s about signing a deal that gets him $2m the next 2 years it should also be of the same length as what he is getting elsewhere.

No it’s not. It’s paying what market value is. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. If the saints think he will leave in two years then what is the point. I would hope they think they can convince him through improvement to stay.

 

[Joffaboy]

Easily conned aren’t you Jop

I know who is easily conned. It's the List Manager.

 

[BrutThough]

We have no new talent? Why has Lyon turned over 23 players then?
Proves what mowman has been saying about SoS then.
The ruck is as good as Marshall? So we are paying millions to stand still and are at risk of losing the best player in the league?
Brilliant work.
Why is LDU worth 1.7 a year? Why is Rowell worth 2 mill a year? Why is TDK worth 1.7 a year?
None of them.as good as NWM but we offer 1.4 a year.
Holy Hell what a mess.

Because they play at other clubs and it is a league wide expectation that clubs have to spend extra to get them out of their current situation.

Some of them are also Free Agents, where the trends have shown clubs pay more so the deals cannot be matched and they ensure they get the player for free.

Why are people suddenly being obtuse about this?

 

[Mowman]

He just doesnt inpire confidence does he! He is such a dour miserable individual publicly, that would have to come through in any list negotiations. The one he has done well though is get the salary cap to a healthy state, lets see how he goes after he starts playing Millions for players again ala Carlton.

Let’s be honest he only has the job because he’s RTB mate

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Geezus how hard is this
I’m sure the club are happy to pay him 1.7m IF Nas commits longer term than 2 years ???? I think that’s sensible

Can we, though? 1.7 to Nas, 1.7 to TDK, presumably around 1 to King. That's a bit under a quarter of the salary cap taken up by 3 players on long term contracts. 4.4 mil would typically pay for 6-7 starting 18 players.

The obvious answer to me is to pull the TDK offer. Pay Nas what we need to keep him, and let Marshall ruck for the next few years as Dodson develops.

 

[Joffaboy]

He just doesnt inpire confidence does he! He is such a dour miserable individual publicly, that would have to come through in any list negotiations. The one he has done well though is get the salary cap to a healthy state, lets see how he goes after he starts playing Millions for players again ala Carlton.

Why not? Getting TDK, GSoS, Walsh on a salary dump and lose NWM.
What's not to be confident about ?

 

[phantom13]

We have one leaver to improve if that’s the case and you don’t want to overpay free agents to come.

That’s the draft or you trade the draft pick for a player.

It’s highly unlikely we get to where you,I,nas wants to be in 2 years time if that’s the case.

Every senior core across the country leaves money on the table to attract talent that improves us. But according to some - we should offer nas this contract and effectively stick with the list as we have it.

Not every team in the country has the best 22 year old in their side.

Just offer him more and if he leaves in 2 years cause we’re not where we need to be take the draft picks he’ll get us and start again.

 

[phantom13]

I don't think that drives him out the door. He and his mgr understand very well this is a business. They are trying to maximise his earnings and we are trying to run a footy club.

I did say it is a unpopular opinion and I don't really care others disagree, but given we are discussing it, what would your approach be?

Back and forth every other week increasing our offer by 200k until we hit truly ridiculous levels?

I have no idea what NAS wants to do, obviously. But if he really wants to go home, no amount of money will stop that. If he wants team success then paying him 10% of that cap won't achieve that either ( And know i didn't agree with TDK money)

I think the club, this far into 'negotiations' is entitled to some answers/induction or direction and if we need to be more aggressive in pursuing that i have no problem.

Whatever keeps him would be my approach. I’d rather we just say $1.8 for two now if that’s what you want. More than Port and more than anyone else we’ve ever paid. Let’s chat in two years when we’re better or worse.

 

[Sainter88]

He just doesnt inpire confidence does he! He is such a dour miserable individual publicly, that would have to come through in any list negotiations. The one he has done well though is get the salary cap to a healthy state, lets see how he goes after he starts playing Millions for players again ala Carlton.

Yeah but his missus is a hottie so kind of evens out

 

[stavro#4]

We have no new talent? Why has Lyon turned over 23 players then?
Proves what mowman has been saying about SoS then.
The ruck is as good as Marshall? So we are paying millions to stand still and are at risk of losing the best player in the league?
Brilliant work.
Why is LDU worth 1.7 a year? Why is Rowell worth 2 mill a year? Why is TDK worth 1.7 a year?
None of them.as good as NWM but we offer 1.4 a year.
Holy Hell what a mess.

Way to twist my words.

The list AS IS, is it enough to win a flag Joffa?

Evidently not unless a miracle occurs. That’s why the club uses its cap space to bring in new talent.

Every single player you listed would be a stkilda listed player for 5+ years had they taken our deal.

You know who you want to earn the equivalent money? nas… on a significantly shorter deal.

And then you make it about the club being at fault again.

 

[phantom13]

This starts getting into Gresham territory....

Resign him for overs to ensure we're making up the Min cap spend.

Then the player gets the shits when asked to take a cut on the follow up deal.

If we wanna offer him more over the 2 years, say "here's an 8 year deal for $11m, we'll pay you $2.5m a year for the first 2 and the $1m a year for the next 6". Even $6m over 4 if that suits better. But we shouldn't be looking at matching the media's headlines over a 2 year deal

Comparing Gresh and Nas…

Anyway, that’s fine, you happy to lose him then? Cause that’s how you do that.

 

[Joffaboy]

Not every team in the country has the best 22 year old in their side.

Just offer him more and if he leaves in 2 years cause we’re not where we need to be take the draft picks he’ll get us and start again.

No we have to be the negotiating masters. Nobody is gunna push us around.

 

[stavro#4]

Not every team in the country has the best 22 year old in their side.

Just offer him more and if he leaves in 2 years cause we’re not where we need to be take the draft picks he’ll get us and start again.

And the other clubs also have gun father sons or academies doing the work for them.

 

[phantom13]

I agree, but....

I'd like to hope that somehow Nas is made aware that we don't have a bottomless pit of money. And, that we definitely have other priorities, increasing his current mates pays and drawing more talent to the club, that are both vital to our hopes of future success.

There’s a balance and our current offer doesn’t go near that.

**** me last week stav and co were adamant we could do TDK at $1.7, Nas at $1.5 and Rowell at $2.

Now all of a sudden we can’t give Nas anymore.

Laughable

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Yeah but his missus is a hottie so kind of evens out

JSOS’s mum > Goober’s mum > Stiffler’s mum