List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[My Hat]

This "football bubble" reason is BS, IMO.

I guess it's possible. But the clubs he's apparently nominated as his preferred destination do seem to be consistent with it.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I guess it's possible. But the clubs he's apparently nominated as his preferred destination do seem to be consistent with it.

I'm sure it's his preference but if a deal could be done to say another Melbourne club does he stay or go? Because he's going to be in Melbourne either way.
I just think he's cracked the sads generally with the club/coach/supporters and has come up with this as part of his explanation.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I'm sure it's his preference but if a deal could be done to say another Melbourne club does he stay or go? Because he's going to be in Melbourne either way.
I just think he's cracked the sads generally with the club/coach/supporters and has come up with this as part of his explanation.

Must be tempting to leave when you're 29 and watching your club p!ss away your career on a coach you think is - to put it nicely - severely limited. And you're watching Geelong coast into another GF.

Geelong are an easy contrast to Carlton. Proven, settled coach. 95% of players stay fit seemingly forever. List manager knows exactly what type of players the coach wants. Always a destination club and always in the finals as a result.

OK they're not perfect but probably as close as you can get for an AFL club.

As opposed to Carlton who are forever mediocre and go from a prelim finals run to immediately setting a world record pace for descending straight back into mediocrity - despite having a star studded list and a maxed out salary cap.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

If we really want a veteran stop gap KPD surely Frost is a better option than Jones? Pushed out of the seniors by the recruitment of Battle and Barrass but had a very good 2024.

Delisted 32yo. 94 games

 

[Garters]

Must be tempting to leave when you're 29 and watching your club p!ss away your career on a coach you think is - to put it nicely - severely limited. And you're watching Geelong coast into another GF.

Geelong are an easy contrast to Carlton. Proven, settled coach. 95% of players stay fit seemingly forever. List manager knows exactly what type of players the coach wants. Always a destination club and always in the finals as a result.

OK they're not perfect but probably as close as you can get for an AFL club.

As opposed to Carlton who are forever mediocre and go from a prelim finals run to immediately setting a world record pace for descending straight back into mediocrity - despite having a star studded list and a maxed out salary cap.

"and watching your club p!ss away your career on a coach you think is - to put it nicely - severely limited. And you're watching Geelong coast into another GF." Or what if your part of the entitled mess that landed you here, now you want the easy option out.. sh*t outcome either way but ****ing soft by him.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

How far up the draft would TDK pick and Swans #9 get us?

 

[sweethoney]

How far up the draft would TDK pick and Swans #9 get us?

Probably pick 2 since eagles are open to splitting it

 

[Coona Blues]

"and watching your club p!ss away your career on a coach you think is - to put it nicely - severely limited. And you're watching Geelong coast into another GF." Or what if your part of the entitled mess that landed you here, now you want the easy option out.. sh*t outcome either way but f*cking soft by him.

Yeah, we can only guess at the motivation, or lack of it.

Club performance?
Financial? How would he feel watching TDK move for a reported $1.8m per year for the best part of a decade when he is still a work in progress? Particularly if he has already pocketed the larger share of his contract.
He now has a partner influencing his decisions, how does she relate to the group and the wags?
Is there a significant rift with Voss, other coaches or players?
Simply lifestyle and personal pursuits being “on the coast”?
Could it extend to medical and conditioning issues?
Damaged ego at being called out on issues?

So many possible issues and I am sure a few more not covered in a hastily compiled post.

 

[Lacharty Fog]

If we lose Charlie to Sydney, would we be interested in J Amiss? Rumoured to be unhappy with role alongside Traecy and Voss. Could Sydney trade L McDonald (plus a pick to even it up) to Freo, might be someone who would be content and effective playing a role in a forward line. Would Amiss want to come to Carlton to replace Charlie?

Also seems like Carlton thing to chase the guy drafted with the pick we traded out.

 

[Big Delut]

Delisted 32yo. 94 games

94 at Hawthorn. 185 including GWS and Melbourne.

 

[Bluebag13]

If we lose Charlie to Sydney, would we be interested in J Amiss? Rumoured to be unhappy with role alongside Traecy and Voss. Could Sydney trade L McDonald (plus a pick to even it up) to Freo, might be someone who would be content and effective playing a role in a forward line. Would Amiss want to come to Carlton to replace Charlie?

Also seems like Carlton thing to chase the guy drafted with the pick we traded out.

I appreciate the out of the box thinking.
I like Amiss, but we would need a bit more than just him for us to trade CC

 

[CoachB]

I reckon we should trade Charlie to West Coast good surf good weather good lifestyle

AFL needs to create a living away from home allowance outside the cap and allow clubs to trade contracted players to wherever the club wants them to go. This bull that the player managers control player movement and the AFL has right of veto is why we have a lopsided competition. If Charlie wants out we should be able to ship him to WCE.

 

[Sector 7G]

AFL needs to create a living away from home allowance outside the cap and allow clubs to trade contracted players to wherever the club wants them to go. This bull that the player managers control player movement and the AFL has right of veto is why we have a lopsided competition. If Charlie wants out we should be able to ship him to WCE.

CC is the last thing WC needs. They are at least 5 years form playing finals.

 

[CoachB]

CC is the last thing WC needs. They are at least 5 years form playing finals.

That's not the point, we should be able to send wherever the club wants.. not be dictated to by player managers.

 

[Sector 7G]

That's not the point, we should be able to send wherever the club wants.. not be dictated to by player managers.

Yes but the club we plan on sending him to needs to be keen.

 

[The Bighouse]

Must be tempting to leave when you're 29 and watching your club p!ss away your career on a coach you think is - to put it nicely - severely limited. And you're watching Geelong coast into another GF.

Geelong are an easy contrast to Carlton. Proven, settled coach. 95% of players stay fit seemingly forever. List manager knows exactly what type of players the coach wants. Always a destination club and always in the finals as a result.

OK they're not perfect but probably as close as you can get for an AFL club.

As opposed to Carlton who are forever mediocre and go from a prelim finals run to immediately setting a world record pace for descending straight back into mediocrity - despite having a star studded list and a maxed out salary cap.

All from a player who failed to appear in the finals in any meaningful way to get us across the line.

In the leadership group (this may be the issue, as he’s not cut out for it)
Senior player
A well paid player (front-loaded?)

Time to stand up for the club rather than put up the white flag as all too hard.

 

[bradfisher14]

I know he would be amazing for us and you never say no when a superstar wants to join your club, but ...

Am I the only one who thinks that going all in for Butters would be a bad idea for our list build?

Port will most likely hold him until next year. They will match every offer and force his preferred club to trade. I would expect the cost to be 3 first rounders or more.

I look at our 2027 team and I don't see a side that is one superstar player away from a flag. I think we need to continue hitting the draft to build a well-rounded team unlike our current top-heavy iteration. This will also sound insane as they have yet to play an AFL game, but with Jagga and Cody coming into our midfield, I'm not sure Butters will be our biggest need during the 2026 off-season.

What do people think about the Butters scenario?

 

[Blue__Balls]

If we lose Charlie to Sydney, would we be interested in J Amiss? Rumoured to be unhappy with role alongside Traecy and Voss. Could Sydney trade L McDonald (plus a pick to even it up) to Freo, might be someone who would be content and effective playing a role in a forward line. Would Amiss want to come to Carlton to replace Charlie?

Also seems like Carlton thing to chase the guy drafted with the pick we traded out.

The pick from Sydney would have to come to us, and I reckon Freo might even need to kick in something else as well, as I think McDonald would be rated higher than Amiss. I'd also get Sydney to chuck in Florent, doubt they'll argue.

Carlton lose: Curnow
Carlton get: Amiss, Delean, Pick 9

Sydney lose: McDonald, Florent, Pick 9
Sydney get: Curnow

Freo lose: Amiss, Delean
Freo get: McDonald

Factoring in compo picks coming in, that Pick 9 would end up at 11, but one of the compo picks would be our own at 10.

Our draft hand prior to any other trading would be 10, 11, [JSOS compo - 22?], ~39, ~48

Picks 10 and 11 might get us Picks 6 and ~24 from Essendon, and a discreet little agreement not to bid on Dean given we've worked so nicely with them on limiting the F/S changes that would have affected Walker and Bewick in the next couple of years. I don't think it's a stretch, as I'm not convinced that they'd bid on him anyway, and Richmond are highly unlikely to with picks 3 or 4.

That get us a pick before Dean, the two picks in the 20s will cover a bid for Dean even if it came immediately after our pick, and Picks 39 and 48 will come in with other bid matching going on, and should cover a bid on Ison in the 20s.

Some late pick shuffling or whatever we get for a guy like McGovern/Acres/Binns should be sufficient for a role player like Khamis. Chesser might be a little trickier, but I'm sure we can work something out - might be that he takes one of the picks in the 20s but we get another pick in the 30s back - worst case we need to take a deficit of like 50-100pts against our future second rounder - we'll be able to make that back up with future trades if necessary.

OUT: Curnow, TDK, JSOS, whatever other players we fob off plus the ones already or soon to be delisted
IN: Amiss, Chesser, Khamis, Florent, Delean
DRAFT: Pick 6, Dean, Ison

EDIT: Trying to tidy it up as it got a bit messy:

Curnow for Pick 11, Amiss, Florent and Delean in a three-way trade that sends McDonald to Freo
Picks 10 (TDK) and 11 for Picks 6 and 24
Pick 22 (JSOS) for Chesser and Pick 33
Pick 6 on best available (Lindsay, Robey, Marsh, Taylor?)
Picks 24 and 33 match a Dean bid at Pick 12 - but they'll most likely move in a bit with the earlier bids on other Academy players, so I reckon they'll actually cover a pick at around 9-10 if needed.
Picks 39 and 48 match an Ison bid at Pick 32 - but as above, they should move in and will likely cover a bid in the mid 20s.
Flip one or more of Gov/Acres/Binns for whatever we need to get Khamis (third rounder).

Walk away with a top 6 draftee, both our F-S/NGA kids, a replacement KPF, an athletic third tall swingman, two midfield types with decent pace and disposal, a goal kicking small forward. Oh, and probably that Reidy bloke as ruck depth for a token fourth rounder that nobody will use.

 

[The Bighouse]

The pick from Sydney would have to come from us, and I reckon Freo might even need to kick in something else as well, as I think McDonald would be rated higher than Amiss. I'd also get Sydney to chuck in Florent, doubt they'll argue.

Carlton lose: Curnow
Carlton get: Amiss, Delean, Pick 9

Sydney lose: McDonald, Florent, Pick 9
Sydney get: Curnow

Freo lose: Amiss, Delean
Freo get: McDonald

Factoring in compo picks coming in, that Pick 9 would end up at 11, but one of the compo picks would be our own at 10.

Our draft hand prior to any other trading would be 10, 11, [JSOS compo - 22?], ~39, ~48

Picks 10 and 11 might get us Picks 6 and ~24 from Essendon, and a discreet little agreement not to bid on Dean given we've worked so nicely with them on limiting the F/S changes that would have affected Walker and Bewick in the next couple of years. I don't think it's a stretch, as I'm not convinced that they'd bid on him anyway, and Richmond are highly unlikely to with picks 3 or 4.

That get us a pick before Dean, the two picks in the 20s will cover a bid for Dean even if it came immediately after our pick, and Picks 39 and 48 will come in with other bid matching going on, and should cover a bid on Ison in the 20s.

Some late pick shuffling or whatever we get for a guy like McGovern/Acres/Binns should be sufficient for a role player like Khamis. Chesser might be a little trickier, but I'm sure we can work something out - might be that he takes one of the picks in the 20s but we get another pick in the 30s back - worst case we need to take a deficit of like 50-100pts against our future second rounder - we'll be able to make that back up with future trades if necessary.

OUT: Curnow, TDK, JSOS, whatever other players we fob off plus the ones already or soon to be delisted
IN: Amiss, Chesser, Khamis, Florent, Delean
DRAFT: Pick 6, Dean, Ison

Nice if there was an agreement between all clubs that “we will not bid”. Obviously excludes STK, Geelong and Freo and clubs can also burn them on any of their nominations to make them pay for their sins/matching bids.

 

[Lacharty Fog]

I appreciate the out of the box thinking.
I like Amiss, but we would need a bit more than just him for us to trade CC

Wasn’t proposing that this would be the trade as a whole, just a possible piece.

Lots of proposals for the trade here (fun to consider) with many having multiple players from one club coming to Carlton. This seems unlikely, perhaps no player wants to be part of a two for one deal, player for player trades are now rare. Thought this could be an option to consider to include a third team and to fill the key forward gap if CC leaves. Amiss would need to do a CC to Freo for it to happen, anyone know who his manager is?

Would bring an interesting media circus - a CC, McDonald, Amiss merry go round

 

[gbatman]

I know he would be amazing for us and you never say no when a superstar wants to join your club, but ...

Am I the only one who thinks that going all in for Butters would be a bad idea for our list build?

Port will most likely hold him until next year. They will match every offer and force his preferred club to trade. I would expect the cost to be 3 first rounders or more.

I look at our 2027 team and I don't see a side that is one superstar player away from a flag. I think we need to continue hitting the draft to build a well-rounded team unlike our current top-heavy iteration. This will also sound insane as they have yet to play an AFL game, but with Jagga and Cody coming into our midfield, I'm not sure Butters will be our biggest need during the 2026 off-season.

What do people think about the Butters scenario?

Things can happen very quickly if you keep your older players going and your youth come through well. We have been hitting the draft a little and if we have done well there we should be fairly good by 2027. Premiership contender? Not sure but a finalist team yes.

Let's have a look at our likely trade ins and draftees that we know of. Buku, Chesser, Reidy, Ison, Gresham, Walker. It's a solid list already.

Best team in 2027 with Butters?

Carroll Weitering Dean
Cowan O'Farrell Hollands
Cerra Cripps Smith
Walker Curnow Williams
Motlop McKay Moir
O'Keefe/Reidy Butters Walsh
? Chesser Hewett Lord Kemp

Reserves: Ison Camporeale Camporeale Newman Charleson Wilson Young Evans White Cottrell Saad Buku, Gresham

It's not a bad side, it's a much better midfield. Question remains, in my opinion is how we fill in those question marks and other. My concern is that without Butters, we still have major issues. That means can we fill that missing spot from the draft or with another player? Ison is a good prospect but how good is he?

If our youth really come on, if Wilson really starts to bloom next season, if Chesser is as good as he looks like he could be, if Smith comes on strong, Moir keeps trending the same way. If Ison plugs into our midfield along with Butters and Gresham plugs into a forward pocket really well. Where do we stand? At Carlton we aren't really used to things going this well for us, however it is about time it does!

The other thing with Butters is that he is 25, he is not just for 2027, he is for at least until 2030+ and fits into our rebuild well IMO.

Let's remember we have had a horror run with outs this season. Traded Kennedy because of incoming Smith and for O'Farrell. No Smith or Newman. McKay and Curnow mostly absent, Cowan injured at the wrong time, Kemp misses most of the season, Walsh missed a lot of games. Cottrell missed the bulk of the season. Pretty much lost most of our forward line for a side who has not got forward line depth. We finished 11th still so despite all this, we still weren't miles away from finals.

I actually think that landing a player like butters is really important as I think the rest of the team will come up around him and I actually think we could be alright. Particularly if there are other players coming in who can fill roles and add depth.

I think if we do things well our future will be bright. Butters and Walsh in the middle and around the ground supported by Cripps/Hewett/Lord could be a lot of fun to watch. It would not be fun for the opposition.

Tactically our midfield is too easy to beat. Cover Walsh. Get the ball out wide and into space and out run us. Walsh and Butters changes opposition's tactics away from this. This tactica which has smashed us the last 3 years would stop working. Walsh, Smith, Butters, Chesser, you would not want to do this. Means teams don't get to target Walsh and push the ball to the outside at all costs, ball stays in closer, allows us to defend and pressure better and that supports our defence and allows our defenders to play loser, intercept and runn off and rebound more.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I know he would be amazing for us and you never say no when a superstar wants to join your club, but ...

Am I the only one who thinks that going all in for Butters would be a bad idea for our list build?

Port will most likely hold him until next year. They will match every offer and force his preferred club to trade. I would expect the cost to be 3 first rounders or more.

I look at our 2027 team and I don't see a side that is one superstar player away from a flag. I think we need to continue hitting the draft to build a well-rounded team unlike our current top-heavy iteration. This will also sound insane as they have yet to play an AFL game, but with Jagga and Cody coming into our midfield, I'm not sure Butters will be our biggest need during the 2026 off-season.

What do people think about the Butters scenario?

He would be a horrible target for us with the way we are positioned right now.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Things can happen very quickly if you keep your older players going and your youth come through well. We have been hitting the draft a little and if we have done well there we should be fairly good by 2027. Premiership contender? Not sure but a finalist team yes.

Let's have a look at our likely trade ins and draftees that we know of. Buku, Chesser, Reidy, Ison, Gresham, Walker. It's a solid list already.

Best team in 2027 with Butters?

Carroll Weitering Dean
Cowan O'Farrell Hollands
Cerra Cripps Smith
Walker Curnow Williams
Motlop McKay Moir
O'Keefe/Reidy Butters Walsh
? Chesser Hewett Lord Kemp

Reserves: Ison Camporeale Camporeale Newman Charleson Wilson Young Evans White Cottrell Saad Buku, Gresham

It's not a bad side, it's a much better midfield. Question remains, in my opinion is how we fill in those question marks and other. My concern is that without Butters, we still have major issues. That means can we fill that missing spot from the draft or with another player? Ison is a good prospect but how good is he?

If our youth really come on, if Wilson really starts to bloom next season, if Chesser is as good as he looks like he could be, if Smith comes on strong, Moir keeps trending the same way. If Ison plugs into our midfield along with Butters and Gresham plugs into a forward pocket really well. Where do we stand? At Carlton we aren't really used to things going this well for us, however it is about time it does!

The other thing with Butters is that he is 25, he is not just for 2027, he is for at least until 2030+ and fits into our rebuild well IMO.

Let's remember we have had a horror run with outs this season. Traded Kennedy because of incoming Smith and for O'Farrell. No Smith or Newman. McKay and Curnow mostly absent, Cowan injured at the wrong time, Kemp misses most of the season, Walsh missed a lot of games. Cottrell missed the bulk of the season. Pretty much lost most of our forward line for a side who has not got forward line depth. We finished 11th still so despite all this, we still weren't miles away from finals.

I actually think that landing a player like butters is really important as I think the rest of the team will come up around him and I actually think we could be alright. Particularly if there are other players coming in who can fill roles and add depth.

I think if we do things well our future will be bright. Butters and Walsh in the middle and around the ground supported by Cripps/Hewett/Lord could be a lot of fun to watch. It would not be fun for the opposition.

Tactically our midfield is too easy to beat. Cover Walsh. Get the ball out wide and into space and out run us. Walsh and Butters changes opposition's tactics away from this. This tactica which has smashed us the last 3 years would stop working. Walsh, Smith, Butters, Chesser, you would not want to do this. Means teams don't get to target Walsh and push the ball to the outside at all costs, ball stays in closer, allows us to defend and pressure better and that supports our defence and allows our defenders to play loser, intercept and runn off and rebound more.

It’s the cost that’s the problem.
It’s Going to be ~$1.5mil PA over ~7 years and draft picks (which we probably need for Walker)

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Am I the only one who thinks that going all in for Butters would be a bad idea for our list build?

Not at all if it is correct that our list is too polarized between top and bottom with not enough in the middle.

 

[katmanblue]

Delisted 32yo. 94 games

DFA. Free.