List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[JJBagger]

That is the funniest statement I’ve seen yet.
I won’t answer the reason I believe players don’t want to come and players want to leave - but it’s not the supporters. Nothing to do with the general public.

Having spoken personally to people in the industry about this - you have rocks in your head if you don’t believe the fans impact whether players come to your club or not

 

[Rugged Blue Bagger]

 

[Rugged Blue Bagger]

Having spoken personally to people in the industry about this - you have rocks in your head if you don’t believe the fans impact whether players come to your club or not

I agree, our fans 200% have an effect on players wanting to come to the club. We have some of the most toxic fans in the land and it def effects the playing group!!

 

[Coona Blues]

I agree, our fans 200% have an effect on players wanting to come to the club. We have some of the most toxic fans in the land and it def effects the playing group!!

Expand on that a little more. Our corporate “fans” who want too much input or access to the group play a larger part. The passionate nature of our fan base can be an issue. The tenet of not getting too high or too low is hard in the Carlton sphere. Many are either fawning over the boos or booing them.

I get the challenge or expectation after long periods of disappointment, but the supporter base can be extreme. It magnifies the pressure the boys (and coaches) feel often to the detriment of the club. They cannot serve too many “masters”.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Just another note from being at the game last night - I'm just really, really sad about how badly our list management team botched the 2024 off season

You simply need to have 30-odd mature, big bodied players who can run around on a footy field to be competitive, to cover injuries, etc.

Losing Marchbank, Cuningham, Kennedy, Owies, Martin and Carroll all at once, and bringing in only Haynes, just crushed our 2025 season before it started.

Marchbank and Cuningham may have been at the end of their run, unfortunately -injuries too great to overcome. Ok, fine - in that case, we needed Haynes, and we absolutely needed to keep everyone else, and it's set us up for a looming disaster. It was ego-driven and totally unnecessary.

Looking at how Geelong have found a role for Martin is a case in point - they've managed him half the year, and he still doesn't play more than 65% game time, and was the sub yesterday.... and he's an absolute luxury in that role, and we should have done the same. Would he be the most over-qualified sub in the sport? Yep, and that's why Geelong will win the premiership.

To then let go Kennedy and Owies on top - they were every game players, and we simply didn't have the cover. Our 2025 season was torched in that moment.

We're in a similar boat now. Docherty, Silvagni, TDK, Cincotta and probably E Hollands are gone? We're talking 11x mature bodies in two years at a minimum? That HAS to be our starting point - how are we replacing these guys?

If we don't replace them AND keep everyone else, we're going to finish bottom 4 next year, and once again do so with an aging list, and head straight into heavy, deep rebuild territory again...

Curnow - only goes if he brings us back SIX players who can fill out our squad next year. I'm serious. Gold Coast could do that and not even blink. But why else are we giving away a quality player? For two late first round draft picks and a single role player? You might as well set the club on fire if we do that.

Then I genuinely think we should be bringing in every cheap 26 year old who is a 'solid' AFL best 30 player we can. Khamis? Yep. Jiath? Yep. Chesser? Sure. That bog ordinary Freo ruckman? Yep. We're halfway there now - we need at least 4 more. Adelaide just delisted Lachlan Murphy - bring him in. Jayden Stevenson? Worth a train on spot (I know we have a 'no dickheads' policy, but that means we are allowed one, and we're getting rid of Hollands). I'd bring in Jacob Koschitzke, Jacob Blight, a few from the top 4 yet to be delisted as well.

Give Voss a few tools to play with, and try to copy the Collingwood/Geelong approach, which for those who haven't been paying attention is 'run 35 deep with mature, veteran players, get everyone healthy for the finals, then let a fit Dangerfield/Cameron/Smith cook' (as a contrast to our approach, which has been 'grind Cripps/Curnow/Weitering/Walsh into a fine paste by making them play 105% game time every week, get everyone's hopes up mid-season, then watch the team slowly fall apart in August...)

I don't think we botched 2024 off-season so much, here's why:

Yes, we lost Marchy, Martin + Cunners. But enough was enough with them, we ultimately had no choice but to let them go. There was no way we were getting any return for any of them either. So replacing them with mature bodied players becomes very difficult.

Kennedy was a complete cluster**** in the way the club handled him. From playing position, to subbing him in the ef, he was filthy and I don't blame him. But I don't think we did too bad out of losing him. That got us the pick to select HOF which was actually very important for list balance/management purposes because we had fa kpd talent. So it's def a short term pain/long term gain move.

Owies' contract was poorly handled. But if he was the difference between the Eagles pulling the trigger on handing us pick #3 or not, then we were always going to let him go. That carrot was far too tempting.

Our main list issues stem from butchered drafts from 2016-2019. Walsh and Kemp are the only 2 on our list still from all those early picks, and what we lost them all for was a packet of chips apart from Fisher where we got a similar return for what we spent on him.

Curnow will not return six players, come on that's crazy talk... Gold Coast could do that? Yeah lol they're not... unless you're talking about trading him for 6 list cloggers in their mid 20's, forget about it.

Khamis - contracted, what are we giving up?
Jiath - as above
Chesser - should be a late 3rd
Reidy - token pick

Murphy - a small forward with career average of 0.6 goals? Yeah no thanks. I think we're past the point of playing 7 small forwards and hoping one of them has a good day so we can score above 60 points for the game.

Stevenson - absolute peanut. I personally don't care too much about this 'no dickheads' policy, but this guy is beyond just being a dickhead... he is a liability... and we should have a 'no liabilities' policy tbh...

Jacob Koschitzke - struggled at Richmond... can't see what he'd bring, would have been preferred if we gave Lemmey a shot at least.

This type of list building is very similar to what Pagan did in 2003... but he had no choice but to try this. And the result will be a quick sugar hit - possibly a 2026 season, where we finish around 12th-14th anyway.

To rise up the ladder, you need to bring in players that will move the needle in areas that we lack. It's just not all doable in one off season.

In terms of priority:

1. Midfield - this just absolutely needs to be addressed big time. The club will try to dangle Charlie for a Gulden/Homes ... but it's just never going to happen. Cripps/Hewett/Cerra/Walsh/Lord/Acres is one paced, one dimensional and the fact they all can't deliver the ball i50, don't work hard enough both ways, don't setup properly in d50 stoppages, can't spread, can't break lines, gravitate to ball carriers, ball watch... it's a one wood midfield that can only overcome other sides with poor midfields as well and with the loss of TDK which makes Pitto our main ruck... yeah...
   
   Jagga will hopefully help, but cant' expect that much from his first season. Chesser, hopefully a solid addition.
   
   
2. Small/medium forward stocks. Fogarty/Motlop/White/Evans/Durdin/Williams. There have been games with all of these in the side... hoping that one of them can produce something. Evans is the only one that actually impressed. Williams had an ok season, but he's not consistent and only playing there because he can't be trusted in the back line and never developed the tank to play in the middle. Motlop, still young had a poor season. Durdin, not up to it imo. Fogarty goes unnoticed in most games. White, he's also young, but can't see him being a solid, consistent contributor either.
   
   
3. KPD stocks. Weiters is approaching 30. HOF going to be missing all season. Gov likely gone (not that he was much chop anyway). JSOS out. So, we're chasing Khamis... ok, if we can get him cheap fine... but he's no needle mover either. Young ... well, yeah... can't expect much from him.

Going to be one hell of an off season this year, not long now...

 

[The Bighouse]

I agree with btdg here but think about it slightly differently in terms of our top 10-12 players as a core, and we lost a few of them in Kennedy and Newman before the season started. It meant we were behind. Then Smith goes down.... and

Bobs your uncle, we bring in 9 kids out of 10 new players. 9 kids. Lists dont work with 9 kids and then we needed them to play seniors..... like a lot. So it's all fallen apart this year.

Like many of us last year we were angry about 3-4 slots on the list always out to injured players, players who'd give us a few games a year. On that basis as much as I liked Marchy as a player and CUninghams 1 great game, they needed to go.

No Harry. Limited Charlie (which was to continue). No Lij. No Acres. No Walsh.
Poor start to the year = poor season.

And people were querying Evans recruitment (mature body and Lij foresight IMO)

Young guys got a grounding and a platform to work off. Over to Inness to do the necessary body buildup over the off-season.
Lord. Moir. Carroll. HOF. HOK. Wilson. Lucas. F.Young. W.White. Pity Charleson didn’t see game time or Lemmey to have a look.
Cowan, OH + Motlop given opportunities to play..

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

C J Jiath.
Watch him carefully in last two finals.
Very ordinary games.
Disposal, tackling and ball handling very poor.
Hopefully we don't get him

 

[SurreyBlue]

I agree, our fans 200% have an effect on players wanting to come to the club. We have some of the most toxic fans in the land and it def effects the playing group!!

30 years of failure…….
Should have seen some of the Richmond talk before there success or really any other supporters club for that matter.

More disappointed, if some within the management of the four walls, would think like this!!
These thoughts, would align with the ‘pointing of fingers everywhere else’, instead of the management of this club, that I keep getting told. Embarrassing if true.

 

[HalloweenJack]

Trigg Point and Cottesloe beach are nice locations though.

Cottesloe is really good for beginners as is Rottnest Island. Triggs has an excellent break as does Scarborough.

 

[No1Suspect]

I don't think we botched 2024 off-season so much, here's why:

Yes, we lost Marchy, Martin + Cunners. But enough was enough with them, we ultimately had no choice but to let them go. There was no way we were getting any return for any of them either. So replacing them with mature bodied players becomes very difficult.

Kennedy was a complete cluster**** in the way the club handled him. From playing position, to subbing him in the ef, he was filthy and I don't blame him. But I don't think we did too bad out of losing him. That got us the pick to select HOF which was actually very important for list balance/management purposes because we had fa kpd talent. So it's def a short term pain/long term gain move.

Owies' contract was poorly handled. But if he was the difference between the Eagles pulling the trigger on handing us pick #3 or not, then we were always going to let him go. That carrot was far too tempting.

Our main list issues stem from butchered drafts from 2016-2019. Walsh and Kemp are the only 2 on our list still from all those early picks, and what we lost them all for was a packet of chips apart from Fisher where we got a similar return for what we spent on him.

Curnow will not return six players, come on that's crazy talk... Gold Coast could do that? Yeah lol they're not... unless you're talking about trading him for 6 list cloggers in their mid 20's, forget about it.

Khamis - contracted, what are we giving up?
Jiath - as above
Chesser - should be a late 3rd
Reidy - token pick

Murphy - a small forward with career average of 0.6 goals? Yeah no thanks. I think we're past the point of playing 7 small forwards and hoping one of them has a good day so we can score above 60 points for the game.

Stevenson - absolute peanut. I personally don't care too much about this 'no dickheads' policy, but this guy is beyond just being a dickhead... he is a liability... and we should have a 'no liabilities' policy tbh...

Jacob Koschitzke - struggled at Richmond... can't see what he'd bring, would have been preferred if we gave Lemmey a shot at least.

This type of list building is very similar to what Pagan did in 2003... but he had no choice but to try this. And the result will be a quick sugar hit - possibly a 2026 season, where we finish around 12th-14th anyway.

To rise up the ladder, you need to bring in players that will move the needle in areas that we lack. It's just not all doable in one off season.

In terms of priority:

1. Midfield - this just absolutely needs to be addressed big time. The club will try to dangle Charlie for a Gulden/Homes ... but it's just never going to happen. Cripps/Hewett/Cerra/Walsh/Lord/Acres is one paced, one dimensional and the fact they all can't deliver the ball i50, don't work hard enough both ways, don't setup properly in d50 stoppages, can't spread, can't break lines, gravitate to ball carriers, ball watch... it's a one wood midfield that can only overcome other sides with poor midfields as well and with the loss of TDK which makes Pitto our main ruck... yeah...
   
   Jagga will hopefully help, but cant' expect that much from his first season. Chesser, hopefully a solid addition.
   
   
2. Small/medium forward stocks. Fogarty/Motlop/White/Evans/Durdin/Williams. There have been games with all of these in the side... hoping that one of them can produce something. Evans is the only one that actually impressed. Williams had an ok season, but he's not consistent and only playing there because he can't be trusted in the back line and never developed the tank to play in the middle. Motlop, still young had a poor season. Durdin, not up to it imo. Fogarty goes unnoticed in most games. White, he's also young, but can't see him being a solid, consistent contributor either.
   
   
3. KPD stocks. Weiters is approaching 30. HOF going to be missing all season. Gov likely gone (not that he was much chop anyway). JSOS out. So, we're chasing Khamis... ok, if we can get him cheap fine... but he's no needle mover either. Young ... well, yeah... can't expect much from him.

Going to be one hell of an off season this year, not long now...

Great post mate

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Good to see Jiath is already a whipping boy despite yet to even be on our list. Great job Carlton fans

Its the only way Carlton fans, Carlton.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Those bagging CJ. Consider this. You are a sub for finals. You get to play for about a qtr. You need time to settle into a hot fast paced final. Yes it’s a prelim, it’s hot and heavy. You are out of favour as best 22. You know your time’s possibly up at that club and don’t want to get injured to ruin your chances of getting to another team. And you possibly want to impress to play in a granny. In a short space of time.

So yes you will be urgent which in turn you get fumbly and you don’t think clearly as you are rushing. Geelong coming at you like a freight train.

CJ is someone we can use to run the ball out of our backline. Gives us some yardage. He is athletic and a big body.

Give me a break by calling him shit. Be realistic.

Great post!!! First finals series, coming off the bench, and struggles to come up to the pace of the game.

Players like Khamis and CJ and Reidy are moneyball options - you get them at a lower rate, but they're not the complete package. We're not in the conversation for any big names right now, so we have to find ways to improve what we currently have, even incrementally.

I'd like to see us trialling delisted players like Eddie Ford and Lloyd Johnston and Jack Delean over the summer to see if they may be an option - because right now, our list is very ordinary apart from a few 'aging' stars, and a few kids coming through the ranks.

 

[seysearles]

Where has the Mitch Lewis to Melbourne talk come from? Any reason we can't get in on that?

I’m personally open to trading Lewis if it can be the main piece in getting Petracca or Merrett in the door but if you mention it on the Hawthorn boards you get shot down pretty quickly. He had a good game last night but that’s the first one he’s had for 2yrs because of injury. Could go either direction.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Having spoken personally to people in the industry about this - you have rocks in your head if you don’t believe the fans impact whether players come to your club or not

I’ll just leave this here for you to let the ‘people in the industry’ know how bad ‘us Carlton’ supporters are.

Magpies forward opens up on social media abuse, and how he turned his fortunes around

Lachie Schultz copped it from all angles in his first year at the Magpies, but he's silenced his doubters in style this season

www.afl.com.au

 

[Aphrodite]

Good to see Jiath is already a whipping boy despite yet to even be on our list. Great job Carlton fans

Not really. I critique those who seem to think that shitting on our players is okay because “you have to have a balanced discussion”. The extremes so many people go to to show how much they care because they’re “willing to be so critical”. It’s rubbish. No wonder players don’t want to come to our club

CJ is not ‘our’ player!

 

[Garters]

I’ll just leave this here for you to let the ‘people in the industry’ know how bad ‘us Carlton’ supporters are.

Magpies forward opens up on social media abuse, and how he turned his fortunes around

Lachie Schultz copped it from all angles in his first year at the Magpies, but he's silenced his doubters in style this season

www.afl.com.au

Reading that. All I could think of was good luck TDK, I hope you know what you have signed on for. 1.8m dollars worth of expectation is almost setting yourself up to fail before you have even started. Hope he has a thick skin. 7 years of vitriol every where you turn from your own supporters, opposition supporters taking the piss will be mentally crushing after a while. I personally think that contract will do the rounds across 3 or so clubs ala Grundy style.

 

[Pablito]

Compare CJs impact last night coming on compared to Reville so far.

Maybe CJ should go back to HB, looks like they're playing him on a wing.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

View attachment 2431356

Medal named after the great Len Tuckey - lead guitarist for the Susie Quatro band.

 

[Opium]

I’ll just leave this here for you to let the ‘people in the industry’ know how bad ‘us Carlton’ supporters are.

Magpies forward opens up on social media abuse, and how he turned his fortunes around

Lachie Schultz copped it from all angles in his first year at the Magpies, but he's silenced his doubters in style this season

www.afl.com.au

The players average salary is pushing 500k a season. They have professional counsellors who talk to each player to help them deal with the pressure and expectations of being an AFL footballer. They don't need to have a social media account if any negativity affects them.

 

[kreuze_missile]

C J Jiath.
Watch him carefully in last two finals.
Very ordinary games.

When he was spraying the ball everywhere on Friday night, my immediate thought was that he would fit in perfectly at Carlton.

 

[The Bighouse]

When he was spraying the ball everywhere on Friday night, my immediate thought was that he would fit in perfectly at Carlton.

You’d like to think it should count against him and our (new) priorities - which should have been in place all along on disposal quality..

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Just digressing - on form
Crows were the worst team in finals, losing to Pies and Hawks at home, both these clubs losing their finals the
next week. Pretty damning

 

[Blue By Blood]

Just digressing - on form
Crows were the worst team in finals, losing to Pies and Crows at home, both these clubs losing their finals the
next week. Pretty damming

Not really. Experience plays a big part in finals. The Crows had the least amount of players on their list with finals experience. If they address a couple of list holes they will be back around the mark again. Very rare to win in finals on your first crack at it regardless of regular season ladder position.

Edit: on form yes you're right. Just saying it wasn't unexpected given their lack of experience.

 

[SurreyBlue]

If Charlie’s management were half smart, they would be working on a Petracca trade.

 

[JJBagger]

If Charlie’s management were half smart, they would be working on a Petracca trade.

I would be very surprised if the club was interested in Petracca