List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Blue By Blood]

And this is the counter argument to the above. With such good talent at the top end of the list if not now then when do you have a crack?

History show we grossly overestimated our list after the flag. End 2019 we brought in Tim Kelly which whilst overpaying I didn’t mind the win now philosophy behind it. 2020 was an abomination, had to realise we weren’t it then and really should have traded out our players of currency (eg Gov Snr, Yeo, Gaff etc.) who were open to a move and brought in the next wave for another flag tilt in 5 years. All those guys and others would have netted top 10 picks at the very least.

I do think Carlton believe they are still in the flag window, but are they 2023 Geelong or 2020 West Coast? If it’s the former I think you have to keep Curnow unless as you say there’s a star youngish mid like a Butters available. If it’s the later you have to take your medicine and get top end picks for the future.

This is where the hindsight of a crystal ball would be handy.
But wouldn't it suck to pack it in and start a rebuild and potentially be giving up on a list that could go all the way with some changes? I'd rather have a crack and fail than be perpetually in a cycle of rebuild and try again. It removes a level of accountability and for too long we had the mindset of 'green shoots' that club wide caused a lack of accountability and a lack of aiming high.

Back half of 2023 we were arguably the best team in the comp and riding a wave of momentum that fell a few goals short of the GF.

In 2024, we were 2nd on the ladder with like 5 rounds to go and probably playing close to the best footy in the comp before injuries got way, way out of hand and we reached tipping point. The next man up mantra collapsed at that volume of injury.

2025, detrailed by injury and inexplicably a rather stodgy and slow game plan. Bad year or a sign of things to come? Crystal ball again..

So where are we at.. it's hard to tell. But the proof is there that our best is right up there and challenges. Even this year we took care of Geelong quite convincingly. It's why there's a lot of supporter frustration as we are a vexing team. I think if we add to and improve around the edges and keep our stars, and have a decent injury run we could contend. I'm not ready to give up on that. We should be aiming high still. It's why we should not be giving away Curnow, especially for merely picks or without a significant haul. He's 28, he's in his prime still. A dual Coleman medallist. But at the same time, I hope we keep blooding the youth so that if in say 2-3 years we haven't achieved the cup we aren't screwed. Jagga, O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Carroll, Cowan, Lord, Moir, Hollands, Dean, Campos x2 etc. isn't a bad batch of youth to work with. I think anyone writing us off is a bit off base personally.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I think we need to be very open to trading Curnow. We have a lot to fix and we can potentially fix a lot with that trade.

I don't think he goes to Geelong, I don't think they can or would be willing to satisfy our demands. I can't see how Sydney can satisfy our demands either.

Curnow, Silvagni, DeKoning, McGovern, Docherty, maybe Acres plus others opens up our salary cap pretty well. This should not be an issue.

Curnow's trade value is also going to rapidly go down now, he's going to be 29 years old next year and we don't know how well he will play, he could absolutely bomb, we don't know.

One thing the Curnow trade has to fix is the age demographic issues with our tall forwards. Curnow and McKay being similar age is not going to work well for us when either or both start to deteriorate and eventually retire which is coming sooner than we would like. So this trade has to involve a tall forward for that reason who is younger than Curnow/McKay. Curnow leaving also means we have to find a tall forward. It just makes sense that this trade has to include a young tall forward. That is the non-negotiable.

Looking at other urgent needs, fast quality midfielder and small forward. I think we can and should be looking at using Curnow, DeKoning and Silvagni's exits to fix these issues.

Then we can get back as soon as next year to playing finals and also extending our window of strength.

I think we have done really well sorting our our age demographic with our defence, there is some really good young talent coming through there.

Our midfield lacks, structure, pace and a little extra quality but it also needs it's age demographic fixing as well. It's not bad, but it is not where we really want it.

Cripps - 30
Hewett - 29
Acres - 29
Cerra - 25
Walsh 24
Lord - 20
Smith - 19
B Camporeale - 18
L Camporeale - 18

We want to be the best and that means having the best midfield or extremely close to it. The group to me lacks a bit of quality and pace in the middle. Cerra has not become the mid we were hoping, he's been injury prone, perhaps a move back to a wing if we can recruit for the middle suites both he and the team. Hewett and Cripps are at the end of their careers and we will be hoping Lord and Camporeale don't just become ok mids but can reach their level of output. Smith will be an excellent improvement but he will be more flank or wing for at least a few years and he should be. He fixes weaknesses there. Acres is about done, his lack of pace has caught up with him as a winger. So to me, half of our midfield is ok, but it lacks quality and it lacks pace and mobility. It's one really good mid of the right type away from really changing things in there for us. It's no wonder we are allegedly inquiring about someone like Butters, perfect fit.

Can we use the losses of DeKoning, Silvagni and potentially Curnow to go bang, bang, bang? Young key forward, quick inside mid, genuine quality young small forward?

Curnow to me, we work with Gold Coast and see how much they want him. Demands should be Walter and Humphrey. That's two issues solved immediately. The next part of that trade needs to be focused on getting a first round pick out of them. Even if it is a future first. A future first and perhaps we look into landing a gun mid at the end of next season.

Walk away with Walters, Humphrey and a first round pick and I am very glad to do that trade.

That then gives us roughly pick 9 (TDK), Pick 18 (Silvagni), Pick 6 or 13 or F1st. We then use these picks to chase the perfect fit midfielder. Open salary cap, plenty of picks this is our warchest to fix our issues and set ourselves up for well into the future. That is assuming that Curnow is that wanted and Suns agree to all of this. IMO they are the only club we could do a deal with where we come out really well.

Later picks and trades to be used to bring in Chesser who I am excited to get, Reidy and others to fill gaps. We probably have to use the Silvagni pick on Dean, so it is probably off the table as trade currency.

Structurally our best 22 for 2027 onwards could be as follows.

Carroll Weitering Dean
Wilson O'Farrell Cowan
Chesser Cripps Smith
Walker Kemp Humphry
Walter McKay Moir
O'Keeffe Walsh Butters
Hollands Lord Cerra Motlop
B Camporeale

Reserve
Hewett Williams Saad Charleson Newman White Evans Young Cottrell Reidy etc

Will also have to factor in Ison and Gresham into the equation as well. If they work out for us then that means we have a bright future post Cripps and Hewett and we go into a really strong era, should we pull off these high profile trades.

To me that is a really good side. If one or two of those players don't turn out then fine, we find them, get more out of our veterans hopefully.

I think that team would be very hard to beat. That is roughly the structure and the quality we need to be aiming for to get us back up in contention and firing again. Two quick onballers to feed off the bigger body and apply pressuer as well as burst speed with the ball. Pace and skill on the wings and flanks. Really sets up our intercept game, ball movement and rebound off half back and gives us a lot of great quick and strong overhead targets going forward but also quality rotation depth as well. As for age demographic it's good, very solid.

Could easily be a better team than we had in 2023, it's more modern. It also has time on it's side, the older players have young players who can take over from them. There are also not a whole heap of old players we need to replace who will all finish up around about the same time, which is a thing that has really hurt us in the past and seen us bottom out. End of the Parkin/Brittan era, end of the Ratten era, let's avoid that bottoming out.

I am absolutely 100% adamant that if we can pull off a trade period like this that we will play finals next year and be a flag contender in 2027. We aren't far off it, we just need to get things done right and do things well to build our team back up so that it is quicker and more talented than it has been.

Serious question Batty, how many keyboards do you go through every week?

 

[eaglevision]

This is where the hindsight of a crystal ball would be handy.
But wouldn't it suck to pack it in and start a rebuild and potentially be giving up on a list that could go all the way with some changes? I'd rather have a crack and fail than be perpetually in a cycle of rebuild and try again. It removes a level of accountability and for too long we had the mindset of 'green shoots' that club wide caused a lack of accountability and a lack of aiming high.

Back half of 2023 we were arguably the best team in the comp and riding a wave of momentum that fell a few goals short of the GF.

In 2024, we were 2nd on the ladder with like 5 rounds to go and probably playing close to the best footy in the comp before injuries got way, way out of hand and we reached tipping point. The next man up mantra collapsed at that volume of injury.

2025, detailed by injury and inexplicably a rather stodgy and slow game plan. Bad year or a sign of things to come? Crystal ball again..

So where are we at.. it's hard to tell. But the proof is there that our best is right up there and challenges. Even this year we took care of Geelong quite convincingly. It's why there's a lot of supporter frustration as we are a vexing team. I think if we add to and improve around the edges and keep our stars, and have a decent injury run we could contend. I'm not ready to give up on that. We should be aiming high still. It's why we should not be giving away Curnow, especially for merely picks or without a significant haul. He's 28, he's in his prime still. A dual Coleman medallist. But at the same time, I hope we keep blooding the youth so that if in say 2-3 years we haven't achieved the cup we aren't screwed. Jagga, O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Carroll, Cowan, Lord, Moir, Hollands, Dean, Campos x2 etc. isn't a bad batch of youth to work with. I think anyone writing us off is a bit off base personally.

100% spot on. You raise an important point, great post. As an example we got it wrong with Tim Kelly but I’m absolutely ok with us going all in on another flag at that point. In hindsight as Juddy said when he went around again and did his ACL, it was the wrong decision but made for the right reasons. My gripe is what happened after that.

The ability of a club to objectively assess where their list is at is absolutely crucial in building success over a period of time. We get all the answers in hindsight but having the foresight is the true skill. Big off-season for the Blues coming up, particularly with come great FS prospects in the pipeline.

 

[Stamos]

Serious question Batty, how many keyboards do you go through every week?

I took a break halfway through that post, knocked over Ulysses, started War & Peace, and then came back to it.

 

[agro]

Jed Walter has a lot of pick up.

 

[Faz 2000]

If we have to do Curnow business, I want…

Walter or Humphrey
O’Sullivan or Dempsey

And a first.

Gulden would get it done straight up but Swans won’t do that.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Might aswell really clean it right up in preparation for 3 years when walker Dean jagga etc can contribute because Brisbane will dominate for a couple and if Suns have a few tidy pick ups will be fighting it out with them

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Brisbane have good academy prospects coming through the next two years at least, will be a constant factory, guaranteeing them a good player every draft

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Brisbane have good academy prospects coming through the next two years at least, will be a constant factory, guaranteeing them a good player every draft

AFL has to introduce a lockout for top 4 teams. Its simply absurd...

They had 2 more running around today in the futures game who went quite well too. One a son of a Hawthorn legend lmao.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

AFL has to introduce a lockout for top 4 teams. Its simply absurd...

They had 2 more running around today in the futures game who went quite well too. One a son of a Hawthorn legend lmao.

Why?

 

[BigBreakfast]

J ugle Hagan is keen to leave the bulldogs .
Back in the new surrounding coaches and GW to get him back on track?
Would be a perfect replacement for curnow if he keeps his mind on the job!

Absolutely no chance. Not with ten ten foot poles!

 

[Stamos]

If the DVI is set correctly there is no need for other restrictions

 

[TENACIOUS]

Well today has focused again, on where we are lacking.

The importance of having multiple class small forwards and a team of players who are good/elite ball users and have pace.

If Charlie is to leave, I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have a focus on using Charlie to attack these areas of need.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Well today has focused again, on where we are lacking.

The importance of having multiple class small forwards and a team of players who are good/elite ball users and have pace.

If Charlie is to leave, I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have a focus on using Charlie to attack these areas of need.

Its a very thin market right now and even thinner in this year's draft.

The biggest nightmare that in a draft with multiple genuine A grade small forward talents, we are likely going to have to use all our trade capital on securing a F/S because the AFL has changed the rules.

Butler, Neocleous, Prasad and others would come in and instantly be our best option.

 

[DangerousD]

Very few no trade clauses in the NBA, maybe Le Bron and that's about it.

What stops the players from doing them?

 

[DangerousD]

Most of them.

Like which ones? I think you’ll find it’s the opposite.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

What stops the players from doing them?

It's up to the team to offer one...and they don't like them for obvious reasons.

Player options (to opt in or out of a contract year) and trade kickers (a percentage payout if traded) are more common.

 

[DangerousD]

AFL has to introduce a lockout for top 4 teams. Its simply absurd...

They had 2 more running around today in the futures game who went quite well too. One a son of a Hawthorn legend lmao.

Why would you need a lockout if the points system worked?

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Recent results should tell us you don’t need dominant KPF’s to win a flag.
All you need is a contest from the KPF’s and hardworking, skilful mid and small sized players.
Any goals from KPF’s are a bonus.
Harry surrounded by these types is what we need.
I don’t think we’re that far off.
And if trading Charlie could net us some decent midsized fwds I think we’d be better off.

 

[gbatman]

Recent results should tell us you don’t need dominant KPF’s to win a flag.
All you need is a contest from the KPF’s and hardworking, skilful mid and small sized players.
Any goals from KPF’s are a bonus.
Harry surrounded by these types is what we need.
I don’t think we’re that far off.
And if trading Charlie could net us some decent midsized fwds I think we’d be better off.

I think you are right, but it sure helps if they can impact offensively.
Brisbane and Collingwood's forward lines are loaded with smaller players who are strong overhead. This seems to be very important. They way sides crowd anyone who is a focal point target, if all your forwards are good targets you get more one on ones and space.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Well today has focused again, on where we are lacking.

The importance of having multiple class small forwards and a team of players who are good/elite ball users and have pace.

If Charlie is to leave, I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have a focus on using Charlie to attack these areas of need.

Goal kicking, tackle sticking mids who extract & create run/drive is pretty bloody handy.

Their set up across the ground is elite, they don’t sucked way too defensively deep & don’t give up ground once they win it.
Personally I think we have failed miserably to adapt correctly to the stand rule - our default position is to be 5m back on every mark, there’s is to close the space - knowing the set up behind them is going to force a long kick (which they are set up for & have talented players to defend and crumb) or force the ball deeper into a controllable (weak field) position.

They have assembled a talented list & most importantly play a game style that allows the players to play to their natural talents.
No one ever looks lost or confused, it’s just win the ball, get it to the right spot & someone will be there for it.

Pretty simple, recruit talent, let that talent shine, it helps they got some deadset guns for free, but even lesser players look amazing when they just “football” freely

 

[Red Bull]

If it’s Sydney for Curnow, I’d much rather see Dattoli included in the deal than Florent.
Last thing we need is another plodder on a 4 year contract …

 

[Juice030103]

Cats clearly need Curnow based on their production up forward yesterday

Pay up or shut up

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Cats clearly need Curnow based on their production up forward yesterday

Pay up or shut up

Going to be intriguing isn’t it.
Who’s going to be the team that wilts and coughs up the mega deal for curnow?

 

[macky99]

Cats clearly need Curnow based on their production up forward yesterday

Pay up or shut up

lt won't be Geelong, they will give up their 1st for Marshall, still have Cameron & Neale, they were smashed in the midfield.
Has to be Sydney or Gold Coast.