List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[marcmurphy3]

Why would North want to give up a likely top 5 pick to do a salary dump (and still pay 25%). Not like they have a cap problem.

That GC deal was a one off. Nobody else is doing that ever. Salary dump yes. Pairing it with a top 10 pick. Not a chance.

 

[4thchicken]

No, but he wasn’t on a million dollars a year which Simpkin is reported to be

So Simpkin + north future first for blues future 3rd then?

We could probably afford 100% salary

 

[bradfisher14]

No reason a fit Simpkin couldn't play that Dane Zorko role for the next five or six years. (concede his kicking isn't Zorko's level)

I can think of many reasons why Jy Simpkin can't play the Dayne Zorko role.

 

[Uncle Fester]

it interesting to see the impact of the FS /Academy changes already - its pretty savage for both us and * - we are having to stockpile high value picks in preparation of the kid - compared to the drunken sailor routine collingwood, the dogs, suns and brions pulled off with their high end FS & academy picks.

as a football fan i appreciate it had to change - but as a carlton person - "its not fair - wahhhh"

we are being forced to bet the farm - ye gods one hopes that it turns out all right

 

[Crippa#9]

I can think of many reasons why Jy Simpkin can't play the Dayne Zorko role.

Fair call.
I’m sure however there would have been a lot of people suggesting no way can Zorko adequately play the Daniel Rich role.
He’s adapted & done it superbly.

 

[bradfisher14]

Fair call.
I’m sure however there would have been a lot of people suggesting no way can Zorko adequately play the Daniel Rich role.
He’s adapted & done it superbly.

Yes, but Zorko had played HB before. I won't even get into the skill set he has that Simpkin doesn't have.

 

[sweethoney]

Did GC keep paying 25% of his salary?

Nope. Geelong took all is salary on and some how were allowed to spread it over 4 years instead of the 2 years Bowes had left

 

[The Bighouse]

Been saying this for many years. The small hard running players always wins you premiership.
But Voss and Austin don't seem think so. They never addressed this issue.

We’ve rotated a stack through there, but the problem is the quality of players and the efficiency of disposal.

We need to turn our players into these types/styles.
Durdin = Nick Watson
Motlop = 50% of Kossie
Moir = Fritsch/Hayward
Kemp = Gunston
EH = Petracca but with better skills **needs to be kept on firstly.

ZW probably too far gone but Zac Bailey role.

Francis Evans is already is Gary Ablett Snr category of god-like ability.

We’re missing the aerialist “small” forward and zip around the forward line. Weightman, Elliott, Hill & then the McCreery (fast/defensive pressure/good skills)

Unfort our smalls like to fly (usually around the KPF’s when they should be front & centre) but mostly il-timed.

We should have tried to address this with the likes of Mannagh, Seth Campbell, Joe Richards, Dudley type of selections and Stengle before them.
Connor McDonald was our guy before Motlop and Paul Curtis would have been great to have been drafted & up forward.

 

[The Bighouse]

Nope. Geelong took all is salary on and some how were allowed to spread it over 4 years instead of the 2 years Bowes had left

In agreement with the player. Extra years but peeled back the pay to smooth it out.
Good if you can get it..

Same could apply with Charlie and wanting to play for less…

 

[BigFrizz36]

Nope. Geelong took all is salary on and some how were allowed to spread it over 4 years instead of the 2 years Bowes had left

Yeah but the good thing is that they got Bowes who is pretty average and they used the pick on Jhye Clark is also pretty average. Fortunately they didn't use their gift wisely on the likes of Phillipou or Weddle.

 

[Psychochook]

We gonna grab May now for one game in 2026 v Geelong?

 

[CJMB]

We gonna grab May now for one game in 2026 v Geelong?

Toby pink

 

[No1Suspect]

If we play our cards right...

2025 - pick up Dean + Ison from the draft, bring in a handful of 23-28 yr olds that can fill a role.

2026 - go all out at the draft. Stockpile the picks from 2025 trade period, there's many ways to do it especially if we lose Charlie. I think we need 4 first round picks.

2027 1st + F3 -> * FOR 2026 1st
Charlie + F2 -> Swans FOR #11 + F1 + Hayward + Dattoli
#10(TDK) + #11 -> North/Demons FOR F1 + F3

There's four 1st round picks in next year's generational draft... we'll likely lose 2 for Cody unless we really luck out (say * finish 17th and WCE draft someone else without bidding, we can essentially just draft Cody there and then allowing us to pick up another 3 first rounders). But the point is, we go after that talent while we can, before the drafts are impacted by Tassie...

2027 - with Charlie gone, we will have a war chest and there will be a bunch of FAs available to chase... there's quite a few really good ones available, and there's some decent options as well. Rowell, Anderson, Serong, Coleman, SDK, Ash, Green, Day, Comben, Bergman, Georgiadis, Warner, Weightman ... all set to be RFAs end of 2027...

We also target a very good player at the trade table. The draft will be diluted thanks to Tassie for the next couple years at this point... So 2027, we offer up our 2028 1st and go after a very good player that will fill a need.

By 2030, we should be set.

Agree, we need to have a 2015 style draft. Its going to be the last chance to maximise our draft hand. Im comfortable letting Charlie go to accomplish this.

 

[btdg]

Agree, we need to have a 2015 style draft. Its going to be the last chance to maximise our draft hand. Im comfortable letting Charlie go to accomplish this.

Why? The 2015 draft and process that it was part of (the '66 game rebuild') was an unmitigated disaster. It took us 8 years to make finals and most of that time was spent entrenched in the bottom four.

And that's even assuming we can draft as well as we did in 2015, and that they all stick around

And for what? The hope that we, possibly, in 8 years time, have a player as good as Charlie Curnow? I would MUCH rather we add to what we already have, which is pretty good, instead of always thinking about some imaginary long-term that never happens.

Geelong haven't had a top 5 pick in 3 decades, and it works. When we were successful in the 90s, we were the 'club that never rebuilt' and it worked. We got spooked because we had some bad injury luck, gave out some bad contracts and ran into salary cap issues, but the mentality was right.

Instead it's been three decades of having the best 'draft hand' of anyone, and the worst on-field results of anyone.

 

[No1Suspect]

Why? The 2015 draft and process that it was part of (the '66 game rebuild') was an unmitigated disaster. It took us 8 years to make finals and most of that time was spent entrenched in the bottom four.

And that's even assuming we can draft as well as we did in 2015, and that they all stick around

And for what? The hope that we, possibly, in 8 years time, have a player as good as Charlie Curnow? I would MUCH rather we add to what we already have, which is pretty good, instead of always thinking about some imaginary long-term that never happens.

Geelong haven't had a top 5 pick in 3 decades, and it works. When we were successful in the 90s, we were the 'club that never rebuilt' and it worked. We got spooked because we had some bad injury luck, gave out some bad contracts and ran into salary cap issues, but the mentality was right.

Instead it's been three decades of having the best 'draft hand' of anyone, and the worst on-field results of anyone.

It was a disaster because after we secured the spine, SOS did a woeful job or building a list around it. I would also hope we have learned for this fetish of splitting picks for lower picks.
Im not as convinced as some that our list is good enough, we've missed the boat and probably need a decent reset without committing to a full on rebuild.

 

[btdg]

It was a disaster because after we secured the spine, SOS did a woeful job or building a list around it. I would also hope we have learned for this fetish of splitting picks for lower picks.
Im not as convinced as some that our list is good enough, we've missed the boat and probably need a decent reset without committing to a full on rebuild.

It was a disaster in 2015 because we just imagined that getting a bunch of high draft picks would lead to success. That hasn't been the case in two decades. That group of players just ended up getting belted for four years, and were still entrenched at the bottom in 2018 until we panicked, completely changed course, and starting heavily overpaying any veteran with a pulse who would join us (which worked better, but created awful salary cap issues... and here we are again).

Our list (after delistings) currently has 15 players aged 21 or younger on it. Add Dean and Ison (only) and we head into next year with 17 players, or basically a third of the list, 22 and under. That is a very young squad - as a comparison, Richmond have 18 players on their list this year who are 22 and under. West Coast currently have 20. To be clear - if we choose to add ONE draft pick in addition to our academy crew, we will start the season with the list profile of Richmond 2025. Add 5 draftees total (including academy) and we start with the profile of West Coast 2025.

We are already in a deep rebuild that no-one asked for. The question is how deep, how brutal do we want this to get - is the plan to actually stay competitive?

To my mind, there's only two scenarios here.

Either those 17 players are worthy of being on an AFL list, and we already have all the youth we need - in which case we should be looking to strengthen the squad to keep it competitive while they grow and develop

OR

We have massively, massively screwed up our list management

 

[goreds]

It was a disaster in 2015 because we just imagined that getting a bunch of high draft picks would lead to success. That hasn't been the case in two decades. That group of players just ended up getting belted for four years, and were still entrenched at the bottom in 2018 until we panicked, completely changed course, and starting heavily overpaying any veteran with a pulse who would join us (which worked better, but created awful salary cap issues... and here we are again).

Our list (after delistings) currently has 15 players aged 21 or younger on it. Add Dean and Ison (only) and we head into next year with 17 players, or basically a third of the list, 22 and under. That is a very young squad - as a comparison, Richmond have 18 players on their list this year who are 22 and under. West Coast currently have 20. To be clear - if we choose to add ONE draft pick in addition to our academy crew, we will start the season with the list profile of Richmond 2025. Add 5 draftees total (including academy) and we start with the profile of West Coast 2025.

We are already in a deep rebuild that no-one asked for. The question is how deep, how brutal do we want this to get - is the plan to actually stay competitive?

To my mind, there's only two scenarios here.

Either those 17 players are worthy of being on an AFL list, and we already have all the youth we need - in which case we should be looking to strengthen the squad to keep it competitive while they grow and develop

OR

We have massively, massively screwed up our list management

Good points. Those 17 are not all AFL list worthy. I would say 10!

My biggest concern is the draft profile or players we want.

Look at the premiers and yes, they got extremely lucky/blessed with father sons through the midfield, but what do these 4 players have in common?

• Zac Bailey: 3 goals 6 behinds
• Charlie Cameron: 4 Goals 1 behind
• Cam Rayner: 1 goal 5 tackles
• Kai Lohmann: 2 goals 1 behind

SMALL FORWARDS WIN FINALS

 

[No1Suspect]

It was a disaster in 2015 because we just imagined that getting a bunch of high draft picks would lead to success. That hasn't been the case in two decades. That group of players just ended up getting belted for four years, and were still entrenched at the bottom in 2018 until we panicked, completely changed course, and starting heavily overpaying any veteran with a pulse who would join us (which worked better, but created awful salary cap issues... and here we are again).

Our list (after delistings) currently has 15 players aged 21 or younger on it. Add Dean and Ison (only) and we head into next year with 17 players, or basically a third of the list, 22 and under. That is a very young squad - as a comparison, Richmond have 18 players on their list this year who are 22 and under. West Coast currently have 20. To be clear - if we choose to add ONE draft pick in addition to our academy crew, we will start the season with the list profile of Richmond 2025. Add 5 draftees total (including academy) and we start with the profile of West Coast 2025.

We are already in a deep rebuild that no-one asked for. The question is how deep, how brutal do we want this to get - is the plan to actually stay competitive?

To my mind, there's only two scenarios here.

Either those 17 players are worthy of being on an AFL list, and we already have all the youth we need - in which case we should be looking to strengthen the squad to keep it competitive while they grow and develop

OR

We have massively, massively screwed up our list management

The GW now at the helm, again im comfortable having a decent reset

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Good points. Those 17 are not all AFL list worthy. I would say 10!

My biggest concern is the draft profile or players we want.

Look at the premiers and yes, they got extremely lucky/blessed with father sons through the midfield, but what do these 4 players have in common?

• Zac Bailey: 3 goals 6 behinds
• Charlie Cameron: 4 Goals 1 behind
• Cam Rayner: 1 goal 5 tackles
• Kai Lohmann: 2 goals 1 behind

SMALL FORWARDS WIN FINALS

I absolutely agree with this. Making the most of your forward opportunities is what the game is all about now. Finals football doesn’t really allow for the luxury of key forwards having space to lead into. You come up against skilled and organised defences who can nullify any long kicking game plans.

Well rounded (overhead and on the ground proficiencies), agile forwards with the ability to sniff an opportunity and finish their work are the hardest players to shut down.

In another timeline with a bit of luck if we prioritised these traits we could’ve used our series of top draft picks from 2016-2019 on Ainsworth, Rayner, Rankine and Pickett. With those guys around Charlie and Harry (and a half decent game plan) we’d basically be unstoppable.

Alas the first couple were taken just before us and Rankine was a flight risk (Walsh was obviously a future captain in waiting too).

 

[goreds]

I absolutely agree with this. Making the most of your forward opportunities is what the game is all about now. Finals football doesn’t really allow for the luxury of key forwards having space to lead into. You come up against skilled and organised defences who can nullify any long kicking game plans.

Well rounded (overhead and on the ground proficiencies), agile forwards with the ability to sniff an opportunity and finish their work are the hardest players to shut down.

In another timeline with a bit of luck if we prioritised these traits we could’ve used our series of top draft picks from 2016-2019 on Ainsworth, Rayner, Rankine and Pickett. With those guys around Charlie and Harry (and a half decent game plan) we’d basically be unstoppable.

Alas the first couple were taken just before us and Rankine was a flight risk (Walsh was obviously a future captain in waiting too).

Zac Bailey free agent next year!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Why would North want to give up a likely top 5 pick to do a salary dump (and still pay 25%). Not like they have a cap problem.

That GC deal was a one off. Nobody else is doing that ever. Salary dump yes. Pairing it with a top 10 pick. Not a chance.

Its hard to imagine that North salary cap is in a position where they need to salary dump their captain

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

it interesting to see the impact of the FS /Academy changes already - its pretty savage for both us and * - we are having to stockpile high value picks in preparation of the kid - compared to the drunken sailor routine collingwood, the dogs, suns and brions pulled off with their high end FS & academy picks.

as a football fan i appreciate it had to change - but as a carlton person - "its not fair - wahhhh"

we are being forced to bet the farm - ye gods one hopes that it turns out all right

It does seem unfair, its gone from being a free hit to now if the rumours are factual that we will have to effectively overpay and use multiple first round picks to acquire something that previously was a gift. We have obviously committed to Cody so will get it done regardless, but in future you will have to seriously question if it is worth it or not.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Why? The 2015 draft and process that it was part of (the '66 game rebuild') was an unmitigated disaster. It took us 8 years to make finals and most of that time was spent entrenched in the bottom four.

And that's even assuming we can draft as well as we did in 2015, and that they all stick around

And for what? The hope that we, possibly, in 8 years time, have a player as good as Charlie Curnow? I would MUCH rather we add to what we already have, which is pretty good, instead of always thinking about some imaginary long-term that never happens.

Geelong haven't had a top 5 pick in 3 decades, and it works. When we were successful in the 90s, we were the 'club that never rebuilt' and it worked. We got spooked because we had some bad injury luck, gave out some bad contracts and ran into salary cap issues, but the mentality was right.

Instead it's been three decades of having the best 'draft hand' of anyone, and the worst on-field results of anyone.

Our issue was 2023 we got comfortable thinking that we had all the pieces and that the team would naturally evolve and improve instead of looking at our weaknesses and trying to get the list better.. we then used 2024 injuries as an excuse to not address the gaps and then in 2025 it all came crumbling down. The good teams get better every year, anyone that stands still gets passed by.

We need to have an eye on 2030 as likely our next opportunity to compete for a flag, but between now and then we should be developing a winning culture and expect to play finals every year. We were not that far off it, lost games we should never have lost ie Tigers round 1 & Dogs round 3, Swans round 10 & Roos round 15.. win these games and we finish a respectable 9th with 13 wins. We had so much go wrong for us this year, that a slice of luck in 2026 and we play finals and by 2027 should be aiming for top 4.

Graeme Wright and the board would be thinking this same way, otherwise if they thought we were pairing it back for a full rebuild there is no way they retain Voss.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

It does seem unfair, its gone from being a free hit to now if the rumours are factual that we will have to effectively overpay and use multiple first round picks to acquire something that previously was a gift. We have obviously committed to Cody so will get it done regardless, but in future you will have to seriously question if it is worth it or not.

They should allow use of future picks for matching via point scale from current season ladder.
Because in addition to the changes they're making there will be a premium to trade if you are forced to.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

They should allow use of future picks for matching via point scale from current season ladder.
Because in addition to the changes they're making there will be a premium to trade if you are forced to.

The AFL has always been cautious of allowing clubs to use multiple years of first round picks.. Hypothetically if Walker is a bust and they have forced us to use 3 years of first round picks to acquire him we would end up like West Coast.