List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It's great we've got a number of options that we can either trade beforehand or on draft nite.

Just speculating, I wouldn't be surprised if we made an audacious bid to trade up with either WCE or the Tiggs to target a player at the top of the board (hopefully Robey) similar to what we did with Jagga last year.

Alternatively, if we decide to go with what we have leading into the draft, and Dean gets bid on before pick 9, I have zero doubt there'll be an onslaught of clubs on the nite lined up to trade for the pick. List managers will see someone they're keen on still on the board and be prepared to pay overs - similar to Essendon a few years back when they gave up a 2nd round pick to move up one spot so they could get Caddy.

Agree. It will all depend on how much we rate Robey I think. He's the target we'd want to chase.

I've outlined scenarios where we can deal with WC or Rich to get an early enough pick for him...

Only 1 month to go now.

 

[btdg]

Very hard on our new recruits calling them C grade.

By your own criteria they should be B grade.

They're better than just role players. None of them are limited to one position, and all of them can influence results in matches.

Perhaps, but it can also be that I consider the 'C' grade to be a very worthy, highly respectable one. It just means a good solid player who does their job every week.

Take Ainsworth, for example. He's played 158 games as a mid/forward and has received Brownlow votes in only two matches. He has 47 coaches votes for his career. This season, he reached 20+ disposals twice, and kicked 3+ goals once. Is it harsh to call him a C-grader? I dunno - to me, he's a very reliable, consistent half-forward/mid, who does his job well (but is rarely in the best players on the ground...). That's an excellent thing to have, don't get me wrong.

Ainsworth and Haywood are probably borderline for me. If you want to put them over the line into B grade (ie: 'good for their position, and nudging AA at their best)' then that's ok; either way, I probably more wanted to highlight that there seems a deliberate strategy on our part to bring in solid, consistent, reliable, one-position players (at the expense of high-variability guys like TDK, SOS, Jack Martin, etc)

 

[Stamos]

you can’t be serious talking about market manipulation. You are supposed to use one pick drafting a player and you are suggesting unlimited.

So back to the model that the Swans got Heeney?

2025 is the best and fairest rules we’ve had in terms of drafting Father Son, NGA and Academy players. It might not be perfect, but the mechanism is by far the best, and just needs a correctly set DVI to function as desired.

 

[Shambolic]

Interesting stat - B&F changes from 2024:
In: Adam Cerra - stronger year on return from injury; Nick Haynes - traded in; Ollie Hollands - emergence / flexibility; Williams, Silvagni and Saad
Out: Nic Newman - injury; Matthew Kennedy - traded; Blake Acres - injury / form; Harry McKay - injury / form; Charlie Curnow = injury / form

https://blueseum.org/2025+Best+and+Fairest+Votes

First point - well done Ollie
Second - surely some of those older Blues on good $ will have better years
Third - Newman's game isnt based on pace but skills and knowhow, so I think he'll contribute a whole heap

 

[bluesDeluxe]

We've only got 1 spot available now.

2

7 left, 5 added to the main list

 

[Bletch]

2

7 left, 5 added to the main list

It's one. You're ignoring SSP/MSD selections.

Hot Topic - Free Agency/Trade Period 2025

2025 AFL Trade Period and the AFL Draft All About Carlton Official Carlton Football Club Trade and Draft hub Current draft picks: -- Live Picks: 4 (3 used) 2027 draft picks: 1st round, 1st round (Sydney), 2nd round (NM), 2nd Round (GC), 3rd round (Bris), 4th round List changes: OUT...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[swuzzlebubble]

It's one. You're ignoring SSP/MSD selections

Except you have to get back to a standard list before the draft and can re-open up the extra spot afterwards

 

[Soapy V]

Walsh should do the team thing and be a wingman. Could be the best wingman in the afl. He’s not a good centre bounce player imo

The attacking wing side is an extra mid these days. Think McLuggage or Gulden and the way they play.

They play like a mid without the extra hard inside work.

I like it because it will protect Walsh and allow him to be more effective IMO. He can still play mid minutes

I also want to see us get minutes into Lord BenC Jagga Moir etc this year. Massive for their development

 

[Bletch]

Except you have to get back to a standard list before the draft and can re-open up the extra spot afterwards

Not sure what you mean by that SB?

The first list lodgment is on 31-Oct. We'll need to meet the list rules by that point, but can obviously make further changes before and during the draft, before final list lodgment on 24-Nov.

However, as things stand now, we have 43 listed players, and the list maximum is 44. We have one spot available.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Not sure what you mean by that SB?

Just that the extra (rookie) spot we'll have for HOF going on to the inactive list won't be available until after the draft, but I might have missed the context of what you guys were saying

 

[Bletch]

Just that the extra (rookie) spot we'll have for HOF going on to the inactive list won't be available until after the draft, but I might have missed the context of what you guys were saying

Yeah, not to do with HOF - but yes, if we figure that he won't play in 2026, it's likely we'll place him on the Inactive List and open up a new spot after the draft.

This is more about the current list status, with the guys (Newy, Kemp) that were on the Inactive List this year, and replaced by White and Young, who at least for now, are still listed players.

 

[Soapy V]

Yeah, not to do with HOF - but yes, if we figure that he won't play in 2026, it's likely we'll place him on the Inactive List and open up a new spot after the draft.

This is more about the current list status, with the guys (Newy, Kemp) that were on the Inactive List this year, and replaced by White and Young, who at least for now, are still listed players.

Club very hopeful he will play later in year at this stage

Kemp is the worry. Very slow recovery

 

[lukep_86]

Would be a very good move for us.

We don't have to muck around on draft night trying to trade up. We could even look at trading 11 down to get more points and just come home with Dean + Ison. Would be more than happy with that having banked another F1.

There were rumours floating around that this would happen. Considering we added a few players already and that it's apparently a shallow draft, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Soapy V]

Would be a very good move for us.

We don't have to muck around on draft night trying to trade up. We could even look at trading 11 down to get more points and just come home with Dean + Ison. Would be more than happy with that having banked another F1.

We will go hard for one of West Coast or Tigers picks. 9, 11 and future picks on table. Another elite young mid sets up our next decade up and before Tassie.

Our target is one of these plus Dean & Ison. Next year Walker and heaps of SC room

Just a question now can we make it happen

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Just on Elijah guys, if there is even 1% chance he disrupts our quest to build our new culture and standards, then I can't see us keeping him.

He's clearly burnt bridges and for the club to say they can trust him at this point will be very difficult.

The players marching to keep him would have swayed Brad Lloyd...

Just …set the standards.

Play him in the 2’s.

Works his arse off.

Give him a chance to step up or step out.

Last chance corral for Elijah & his talent.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

That is really a disaster - and not to mention what picks we had to trade out to rectify those draft misses.

Seton, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien and Stocker should be the core of our starting midfield, and at least 1 should be an A grader.

So just because we have 6 first round picks available to us in the next 3 drafts doesn’t mean automatic success but at least Stephen Silvagni is not going to have any say in their selection.

That’s it isn’t it.

Wright, Davies & Voss are instinctive football people.

Austin is a brilliant mechanic.

No way we make the same horrific blunders of the past.

 

[Beyond Blue]

The fact is, we will need to take at least 4 picks into the draft for matching and swapping purposes.

We have 2 spots available now.

Therefore 2 of the below will need to be delisted

Binns
Hollands
Mcgovern
Boyd.

If we take a DFA before the draft, then 3 will need to be delisted.

My bet is is will be 2 delisted.

Take a maximum of 3 in the draft, leaving 1 spot for a dfa post draft.

After missing out on Khamis I don’t think we can get rid of Gov. Also whilst Elijah is a complicated mess I think he is so talented he is worth one last chance. I’d much rather we delist and pay out Fogarty than delist and pay out Elijah.

If it were me Boyd and Binns will be the ones to go. Binns is not an AFL footballer and never will be. I’m not sure what happened to Boyd because he looked like he belonged but he has clearly done something to fall out of favour.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We will go hard for one of West Coast or Tigers picks. 9, 11 and future picks on table. Another elite young mid sets up our next decade up and before Tassie.

Our target is one of these plus Dean & Ison. Next year Walker and heaps of SC room

Just a question now can we make it happen

Yeah I've got the feeling this is what we'll try and do too.

We can get a F2 off Richmond as well and then trade that to someone like North to get more picks to match bids.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Just …set the standards.

Play him in the 2’s.

Works his arse off.

Give him a chance to step up or step out.

Last chance corral for Elijah & his talent.

I believe that's what we're intending to do... by getting rid of him...

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I believe that's what we're intending to do... by getting rid of him...

It seems so but given we haven't already who knows

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The attacking wing side is an extra mid these days. Think McLuggage or Gulden and the way they play.

They play like a mid without the extra hard inside work.

I like it because it will protect Walsh and allow him to be more effective IMO. He can still play mid minutes

I also want to see us get minutes into Lord BenC Jagga Moir etc this year. Massive for their development

Been calling out for Walsh to play on the wing for years...

When he has space he can make some really good decisions and hurt the opposition... when he's in close he makes really dumb decisions like going for the same ball as Cripps, or dumping it on his boot or gravitating to the ball carrier or ball watching at stoppages in d50...

Has a huge running capacity too, can't understand the decision to turn him into an inside mid.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So back to the model that the Swans got Heeney?

2025 is the best and fairest rules we’ve had in terms of drafting Father Son, NGA and Academy players. It might not be perfect, but the mechanism is by far the best, and just needs a correctly set DVI to function as desired.

Heeney model? Silly strawman.

No making clubs try and match with two picks with a small deficit is a much better system than what we have this year. For example had GC had to match Patterson and Uwland with two picks the entire competition except them would be better off.

Out of curiosity what do you suggest we do with picks 9 and 11?

 

[Soapy V]

That is really a disaster - and not to mention what picks we had to trade out to rectify those draft misses.

Seton, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien and Stocker should be the core of our starting midfield, and at least 1 should be an A grader.

So just because we have 6 first round picks available to us in the next 3 drafts doesn’t mean automatic success but at least Stephen Silvagni is not going to have any say in their selection.

Whilst I don’t disagree need to consider the environment and culture they were brought into. Shocking for development. Worst in the league

Almost all of these players were rated at the picks we got them prior to draft

Whether these players would have made it is debatable but the environment they came into made it so much harder

 

[JJBagger]

We will go hard for one of West Coast or Tigers picks. 9, 11 and future picks on table. Another elite young mid sets up our next decade up and before Tassie.

Our target is one of these plus Dean & Ison. Next year Walker and heaps of SC room

Just a question now can we make it happen

Could easily see us target a Robey, Grlj, Cumming or Lindsay in this draft

 

[Stamos]

Heeney model? Silly strawman.

No making clubs try and match with two picks with a small deficit is a much better system than what we have this year. For example had GC had to match Patterson and Uwland with two picks the entire competition except them would be better off.

If you’re going to move to a 2 picks only model, you need to get rid of, or dramatically alter the DVI. It would remove flexibility, and fairness in terms of forward planning because you can’t know when a bid will come, and clubs can be bent over being forced to trade up. It also encourages players tanking, and other funny buggers.
It just becomes a much less fair system.

The Suns gave up a lot to be in the position they are for this year. They traded to be holding 3 Firsts, and then traded Flanders for pick 8.
Other clubs were able to benefit from the current rules which promote trading, and a relatively free market.

Out of curiosity what do you suggest we do with picks 9 and 11?

There seems to be 4 rough options:
1. Hold, match Dean when the bid comes and then use the 2nd pick that will slide into the teens
2. Live trade up ahead of the bid (Essendon the real option) with points back
3. Trade one out for a F1, and maybe a couple of extra points (might be quite tricky to find a buyer)
4. Trade heavy to get a top pick from WC or Tiges

I don’t know enough about the draftees, or how the next couple of weeks will play out to have a strong opinion, but I’m much less inclined to go option 4. I think it would e relatively expensive, and really limit our flexibility over the next 2 years.

So my priority of options would be 2/3 - 1 - 4