List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[TheLastCall]

That's one too many "backup"s, which is the problem. We will have two rucks and they will both be playing AFL.

As I said, Voss and/or Treacy as a ruck costs us Voss and/or Treacy out of our forward line in a game. Omac is injury-prone himself and not competent as a ruck because it's a position he's never played serious minutes in (and he's also not big enough). Riddle has not really shown WAFL level ruck competence—I am optimistic about him as he develops, but on current form this would be conceding every ball-up as a hit-out to advantage for the opposition.

Covering off a catastrophe is not a wasted list spot—especially if you have to use that cover.

My preference would be rookie-ing Knobel. He's young and developing, so there's potential for some return on investment if his career goes in the direction we hope it does.

I think Riddle needs a go at Peel as their number one ruck. I think not picking a Ruck is a good idea. If we truly need one wait till the Mid season draft.

Only reason we should pick one is if GC let Knobel slip to the rookie draft and we can snatch him back.

 

[Paracleet]

There is absolutely no way we are going into a season without three number 1 ruck options. To be caught in a situation where you are expecting shortish key forwards, or ruck/forwards who haven't even played a full game in WAFL seniors as a ruck, to ruck the entire game for a block of games is courting disaster. All for the sake of one extra player on the list that’s the last pick in the rookie draft or a second SSP?

Remember rucks are like nuclear weapons. They may seem ineffective when everyone has them, but ask the Japanese what it's like when only the other side is packing.

 

[Purple Suit]

I think Riddle needs a go at Peel as their number one ruck. I think not picking a Ruck is a good idea. If we truly need one wait till the Mid season draft.

Only reason we should pick one is if GC let Knobel slip to the rookie draft and we can snatch him back.

I assume it was the real reason we lost the final against them. As soon as the next game was vs Brisbane away we were cooked so hatched the get Knobel plan.

 

[Alfonz]

We absolutely need a back-up ruck, even if he's just a rookie pick or an SPP. While it's an absolute nightmare scenario to have Jackson and Darcy both injured, but we actually came pretty close to it in 2025 (had to rush Darcy back for rounds 6, 7, 8, to cover Jackson's hammy, when we'd have much rather slowly built Darcy's fitness through limited WAFL minutes). Darcy is, unfortunately, a lot more injury-prone than we'd like—so as soon as Jackson is out for any reason, things get very dicey indeed.

We cannot be running Treacy + Voss as rucks and expect to win any game against moderately competent opponents. There goes our midfield; there goes our forward structure.

You cannot allow a potential outcome of, essentially, automatically conceding games for the risk factor of (one quite injury-prone player gets injured or suspended)*(one non-injury-prone player gets injured or suspended). Even if that's a 1% chance, it's too much.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think we can expect to win any game against good opponents with Darcy and Jackson both injured. Doesn't matter whether we have a competent/genuine 3rd ruck or not. I think it is 50/50 whether we need to have someone taking a list spot for that role. Can see the arguments for and against. I'd lean towards picking a 3rd ruck, but won't lose sleep if we don't. Someone like Reidy was pretty useless, and would we be getting anyone better?

One that nobody seems to have mentioned is Draper. A bit too short, but he can jump and cover the ground and we could play him like a budget Blicavs/Stanley type. He was given some minutes in the ruck last year in a couple of games, so he is at least in the mix as a ruck option.

 

[Purple Suit]

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think we can expect to win any game against good opponents with Darcy and Jackson both injured. Doesn't matter whether we have a competent/genuine 3rd ruck or not. I think it is 50/50 whether we need to have someone taking a list spot for that role. Can see the arguments for and against. I'd lean towards picking a 3rd ruck, but won't lose sleep if we don't. Someone like Reidy was pretty useless, and would we be getting anyone better?

One that nobody seems to have mentioned is Draper. A bit too short, but he can jump and cover the ground and we could play him like a budget Blicavs/Stanley type. He was given some minutes in the ruck last year in a couple of games, so he is at least in the mix as a ruck option.

We love rucks. We've had 4-5 rucks on our list for a very long time and develop them well.

No way the club isn't getting us back to 4 who can main ruck. Especially as it will take 12 months for even a mature ruck to learn our set-up and improve. We can then flip them for currency if they develop and want opportunity or cover ourselves from major injuries or rucks wanting to leave.

 

[Taylor]

I am curious about the rules should Knobel be delisted, while contracted for 2026, to open list positions for their draft hand.

Delisting Knobel doesn't change his free agency status, he already had it from our attempt to move him to the rookie list.
Delisting Knobel while contracted if he isn't picked up by another side (or GC) then his 2026 salary is paid out in the 2025 year.
If GC plan to delist him and retake him in the draft, HE is the one who nominates for the draft. If he doesn't nominate for the draft there is no way to avoid the Suns having to pay him out his 2026 contract.

If he then joins Freo via the SSP in January, he gets paid twice.

Very curious if GC would lodge a protest over it.

 

[Paracleet]

We don't need a third ruck to win taps, we need a cover ruck who can run the game out and prevent the opposition ruck from getting clear taps themselves.

Then we can actually have a viable gameplan for it since rucking the whole game with 2 of Tracy, Voss and MacDonald is one that means we have defend every single centre bounce in the game.

 

[Taylor]

We don't need a third ruck to win taps, we need a cover ruck who can run the game out and prevent the opposition ruck from getting clear taps themselves.

Then we can actually have a viable gameplan for it since rucking the whole game with 2 of Tracy, Voss and MacDonald is one that means we have defend every single centre bounce in the game.

Remove tap ruckmen, inject big lump of ruck who will even the contest, replace one of the stoppage mids with a more contested ball winner - such as swapping Bolton out and putting Johnson in.

Could work. Makes a slog of it, but if that ruck can also spoil opposition ruckmen marking transition footy - would do just fine.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I think Riddle needs a go at Peel as their number one ruck. I think not picking a Ruck is a good idea. If we truly need one wait till the Mid season draft.

Only reason we should pick one is if GC let Knobel slip to the rookie draft and we can snatch him back.

Knobel has been delisted. We can sign him as an SSP so he ends up on the rookie list.

 

[Suma Says]

Has anyone actually seen an official release saying Knobel has been delisted?

Hearing a lot of conflicting information - hes listed as 2026 FA on AFL.com (which has had inaccuracies in the past apparently), other places say he's OoC now.

Surely if he has been delisted or not offered a contract for 2026 there will be some official announcement or post somewhere

 

[2big2strom]

How tall is the Freo property guy that has a good leg on him? Clarky mentioned him on the pod. Actually, doesn't matter how tall he is as long as he is wider than the opponent ruck. Cheap ruck back up and would prevent the Oppo getting their tap game going and bonus has a good leg on him.

 

[largebus]

Has anyone actually seen an official release saying Knobel has been delisted?

Hearing a lot of conflicting information - hes listed as 2026 FA on AFL.com (which has had inaccuracies in the past apparently), other places say he's OoC now.

Surely if he has been delisted or not offered a contract for 2026 there will be some official announcement or post somewhere

He was delisted 12 months ago, we were going to re draft him but Gold Coast nabbed him

 

[Suma Says]

He was delisted 12 months ago, we were going to re draft him but Gold Coast nabbed him

I meant at the end of this year. Aware of how he left us, trying to nail down his current contract status. Have heard people confidently saying he is out of contract in both 2025 and 2026

 

[Paracleet]

I meant at the end of this year. Aware of how he left us, trying to nail down his current contract status. Have heard people confidently saying he is out of contract in both 2025 and 2026

There has been no annoucement that he is delisted by Gold Coast.

 

[Suma Says]

I guess the important part for me is did GC originally sign him for one year or two.

If he was signed for one then as a previously delisted player he is automatically UFA and available for us to take back if we so choose (I hope we do)

People suggesting he is a Free Agent in 2026 instead obviously working on the assumption (correctly or not) that he originally got a 2yr deal at GC

 

[Alfonz]

Footywire have Knobel listed as signed up to end of 2026 and being a non-free agent at that point.

 

[Suma Says]

At least part of that is guaranteed to be wrong - as he was delisted by us he is automatically an unrestricted Free Agent every time he comes out of contract

 

[rgauci]

I guess the important part for me is did GC originally sign him for one year or two.

If he was signed for one then as a previously delisted player he is automatically UFA and available for us to take back if we so choose (I hope we do)

People suggesting he is a Free Agent in 2026 instead obviously working on the assumption (correctly or not) that he originally got a 2yr deal at GC

I like the idea of bringing him back. 1st rookie selection for mine. I’d offer him a 2 year contract on the rookie list.

Two reasons, if we select him before Gold Coast, they will need to pay him out with money from the 2025 salary cap. Nice little reminder we owe you one.

Second reason, he showed significant improvement in the short time frame with us. He’s an appropriate size for a modern day ruck, can jump, take a mark and kick 55m. He’ll improve over time.

 

[Suma Says]

Yeah im a fan. Was rail thin but is filling out some, moves well, has pretty good craft, and good skills for a ruckman.
Was dirty when GC poached him, would love to get him back. Fits our current and long term needs as opposed to some of the stopgap options available

 

[bellie4pm]

Ok…

So we have a youngish list that the club (and others) is assuring us IS good enough “as is” to win a premiership in the next two or three years. We dont need to recruit stars because of this.

The “story” that as this list gets older and gets more experience, it will improve enough to win a premiership.

Which begs the question… where is this improvement going to come from?

And are we being realistic about the amount our list is going to improve by?

Some of this improvement will come from JL and the coaching team with training, strategies, structure, team Selection and taking better risks during the game all adding to the points for and reducing the points conceded.

Being realistic though, this is maybe 20% of the difference between where we are now and where we need to be to win a premiership.

Most of the improvement has to come from the players on our list.

But who can we realistically expect to take their game to the next level and make a real difference to our win:loss ratio?


Some of our players are already near their ceilings - from stars to role players. For me, these include:

Brayshaw, Serong, Banfield, Ryan, Pierce, Clark, Cox, O’Mac, Wagner, Worner, O’Meara

Then there are the players that have shown they could be a major contributor at afl level …and also that they may not be. Jury is out on
Fredericks, Amiss (HATE putting him here!!), Sharp, Johnson, Erasmus, O’Driscoll, Simpson, Walker, Draper, Dudley. These are the ones we need to step forward and consistently play at a level they haven’t… yet.

And then there are the players who are still to demonstrate they have real potential at afl level - Davies, Riddle, Carr, Murphy and Nicholls.

Which leaves us with the players that we NEED to step up to the next level for us to improve on our 25 result:
Young, Jackson, Darcy, Reid, Voss, Treacy, Bolton, McVee, Chapman,Switkowski

Question I have for you all - if this last group of players each improve by say 10%… is that enpugh for us to win a premiership?

 

[Eski3]

Footywire have Knobel listed as signed up to end of 2026 and being a non-free agent at that point.

Well he's definitely a free agent because we delisted him

 

[ignoramus]

Two reasons, if we select him before Gold Coast, they will need to pay him out with money from the 2025 salary cap. Nice little reminder we owe you one.

Pretty sure that if we select him, then GC do not need to pay him out. They only have to pay him out if he is not on any list in 2026.

 

[freo_leo29]

That's one too many "backup"s, which is the problem. We will have two rucks and they will both be playing AFL.

As I said, Voss and/or Treacy as a ruck costs us Voss and/or Treacy out of our forward line in a game. Omac is injury-prone himself and not competent as a ruck because it's a position he's never played serious minutes in (and he's also not big enough). Riddle has not really shown WAFL level ruck competence—I am optimistic about him as he develops, but on current form this would be conceding every ball-up as a hit-out to advantage for the opposition.

Covering off a catastrophe is not a wasted list spot—especially if you have to use that cover.

My preference would be rookie-ing Knobel. He's young and developing, so there's potential for some return on investment if his career goes in the direction we hope it does.

Jackson, Darcy and riddle

Then a state league ruck



Knobel is at GC

 

[freo_leo29]

There is absolutely no way we are going into a season without three number 1 ruck options. To be caught in a situation where you are expecting shortish key forwards, or ruck/forwards who haven't even played a full game in WAFL seniors as a ruck, to ruck the entire game for a block of games is courting disaster. All for the sake of one extra player on the list that’s the last pick in the rookie draft or a second SSP?

Remember rucks are like nuclear weapons. They may seem ineffective when everyone has them, but ask the Japanese what it's like when only the other side is packing.

We have 3 on the list already...

 

[Taylor]

Pretty sure that if we select him, then GC do not need to pay him out. They only have to pay him out if he is not on any list in 2026.

That's where it's tricky because the final list lodgement before the end of the year is before the SSP signing closes.