List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[skam85]

As long as you have one that can compete.

Do you even know what you're arguing anymore?

If Gardner isn't a ruckman and I'm as bad as Bicks for whoever he mentioned that one time that you've hyperfixated on for 3 weeks, then why does it matter?

 

[Mostyn]

I agree with most of what you're saying about ruckmen.

ROB is probably in the bottom third of starting ruckmen, but it's hard to argue that it's a MASSIVE issue seeing ruckmen don't seem to be a big driver of success. I'd rather we had one more for depth, but I don't lose sleep over it.

Oh - Madden at GWS is older than you're saying. He's been around for three plus years - he is probably someone we should target in the offseason, as he has a good ruckman ahead of him.

 

[AFC979810]

Do you even know what you're arguing anymore?

Same thing I have argued since day 1, old son. Rob is fine as our first choice ruckman. Ruck is the least important position on the football field in the 2025.

If Gardner isn't a ruckman and I'm as bad as Bicks for whoever he mentioned that one time that you've hyperfixated on for 3 weeks,

Well - it wasn't that he mentioned it one time. It was that he deviously tried to say Zane was a ruckman when it suited his argument in January and then completely backflipped in February and argued with himself.

I find it hilarious.

then why does it matter?

It matters because Gardner isn't a ruckman like you stated.

 

[skam85]

It matters because Gardner isn't a ruckman like you stated.

Show me where I stated Gardner is a ruckman. I'll wait.

 

[Mostyn]

You are as bad as Bicks. This isn't 1995. Gardner ain't a ruckman.

Gardner is 197cm. He played 19 games in the VFL in 2024 and had 50 total hit-outs. May as well say we have Burgess as a ruckman (34 AFL hit-outs from 8 games).

He is quite comparable to someone like Burgess.

Look, if they need him to, Lobb will have to ruck. But he hates doing it, and his previous two clubs tried to get him to part-time ruck and it has failed both times. It's not a great option.

 

[AFC979810]

Oh - Madden at GWS is older than you're saying. He's been around for three plus years - he is probably someone we should target in the offseason, as he has a good ruckman ahead of him.

Contracted until 2026, but seems like exactly the type of player we should target.

 

[AFC979810]

Show me where I stated Gardner is a ruckman. I'll wait.

Mostyn - "The Bulldogs decided to not sign Crossley and seem to be going into the season without a backup ruck? Am I missing something?"

Yes, you are. Club website has this bloke listed as a ruck.
As well as Lobb who as done plenty.

Ryan Gardner | AFL

Follow Ryan Gardner's progress through AFL

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

So whats the point of listing Gardner as a ruckman? Surely you are implying it? Surely.....

 

[AFC979810]

Look, if they need him to, Lobb will have to ruck. But he hates doing it, and his previous two clubs tried to get him to part-time ruck and it has failed both times. It's not a great option.

100%. It would be a terrible scenario for the Bulldogs. They prefer him as a backman not a ruckman.

Just like it would be terrible for us if we lost ROB/STrachan and had to use TT/Murray/Burgess or anyone else as a ruckman.

Just like it would be disastrous for every other bloody club if they lost their two best ruckman.

 

[Mutineer]

I agree with most of what you're saying about ruckmen.

ROB is probably in the bottom third of starting ruckmen, but it's hard to argue that it's a MASSIVE issue seeing ruckmen don't seem to be a big driver of success. I'd rather we had one more for depth, but I don't lose sleep over it.

Oh - Madden at GWS is older than you're saying. He's been around for three plus years - he is probably someone we should target in the offseason, as he has a good ruckman ahead of him.

Madden is treacle slow and hardly the athletic type ruck favoured in today's AFL.

Have you ever seen him play? He's more Mumford than the English, Xerri, De Koning type ruck.

 

[Velvet George]

Sure.

11 win Essendon dropped Goldstein. Top 4 Port dropped Ivan Soldo.

Meanwhile the two All Australian Ruckman nominees came from 11 win teams.

Good ruck, bad ruck who gives a shit. As long as you have one that can compete.

Port dropped Soldo? Wasn’t he injured, replaced by Sweet the other ruckman they recruited? Thats right they recruited 2. Then Sweet moved to be no 1, that’s what happens when you have depth.

Goldstein? The 35 ruck? They also have another 2 rucks who are now their no 1 rucks.

So both examples aren’t going into 2025 with their dropped ruckman as their lead rucks, thanks for making my point for me.

As for who cares, yeah no issue carrying a player in your team who has been beaten by a SANFL player all preseason.

 

[Cromulant]

Port dropped Soldo? Wasn’t he injured, replaced by Sweet the other ruckman they recruited? Thats right they recruited 2. Then Sweet moved to be no 1, that’s what happens when you have depth.

Goldstein? The 35 ruck? They also have another 2 rucks who are now their no 1 rucks.

So both examples aren’t going into 2025 with their dropped ruckman as their lead rucks, thanks for making my point for me.

As for who cares, yeah no issue carrying a player in your team who has been beaten by a SANFL player all preseason.

Devils advocate on that last point.

I wonder if ROB has been told to take it a bit easier due to our idiotic list management decision ??

 

[Mostyn]

Madden is treacle slow and hardly the athletic type ruck favoured in today's AFL.

Have you ever seen him play? He's more Mumford than the English, Xerri, De Koning type ruck.

I noted that he came up in quite a few GWS pre season reports, commenting on him trimming down and putting a lot of pressure on Briggs. Might mean nothing, might mean he's ready to look for next level opportunities.

 

[Mutineer]

Port dropped Soldo? Wasn’t he injured, replaced by Sweet the other ruckman they recruited? Thats right they recruited 2. Then Sweet moved to be no 1, that’s what happens when you have depth.

Goldstein? The 35 ruck? They also have another 2 rucks who are now their no 1 rucks.

So both examples aren’t going into 2025 with their dropped ruckman as their lead rucks, thanks for making my point for me.

As for who cares, yeah no issue carrying a player in your team who has been beaten by a SANFL player all preseason.

Essendon also drafted the very athletic young ruck Vigo Visentini in 2023 brother of Port's Dante to develop behind Draper and Bryan.

 

[skam85]

Strachan as our "Second best ruckman" is what the issue is here, he is quite comfortably the worst number 2 ruckman in the league, meaning we pin all our hopes on a top 10-15 (generously) in the league ruck, and a 36-40th league ruck.

 

[Mutineer]

I noted that he came up in quite a few GWS pre season reports, commenting on him trimming down and putting a lot of pressure on Briggs. Might mean nothing, might mean he's ready to look for next level opportunities.

Well at least they have the foresight to have a 20 year old ruck on their list with 2 years VFL grounding under his belt, picked up for nought as a rookie.

Did that stop them drafting Logan Smith with pick 71 in the 2024 draft?

We have 2 29 year old rucks fast approaching veteran status, 1 who is clearly not up to AFL standard and both out of contract years end.
On top of that ROB is a UFA who can walk if he so desires.

But hey everything is coming up roses

 

[AFC979810]

Port dropped Soldo? Wasn’t he injured, replaced by Sweet the other ruckman they recruited? Thats right they recruited 2. Then Sweet moved to be no 1, that’s what happens when you have depth.

Port played Soldo rounds 1-6. Then he got hurt and came back playing 2 games before getting dropped and playing the season out in the SANFL.

He lost his spot to Jordan Sweet who the power acquired easily for pick 50 at the end of 2023 (see how is easy it is to find ruckman for cheap).

Goldstein? The 35 ruck? They also have another 2 rucks who are now their no 1 rucks.

Yup. Was their #1 ruckman to start the season and got dropped. Essendon now have 5 ruckman on their list and we are likely (and unfortunately) gonna swipe one.

You asked for two examples of teams that dropped their lead ruckman last year - I provided them.

So both examples aren’t going into 2025 with their dropped ruckman as their lead rucks, thanks for making my point for me.

Ahhh you were asking which teams kept the ruckman they dropped last season. Well - just us.

Well only 3 teams dropped their ruckman. We are the only one going into the season with one - probably because we have two mature rucks contracted through 2025.

As for who cares, yeah no issue carrying a player in your team who has been beaten by a SANFL player all preseason.

Yeah - Preseason don't matter. ROB has a season like 2024 - we will be just fine.

He came back okay after he was dropped. Averaged about 40 hit-outs a game. Also had Didn't he dominate All Australian English in Rd 22 earning 8 coaches votes (4 from each coach). He can still be very good. His bad is at least competitive and he responds well to when he is dropped.

Once again going into 2025 with ROB as your #1 ruckman aint bad.

 

[AFC979810]

Strachan as our "Second best ruckman" is what the issue is here, he is quite comfortably the worst number 2 ruckman in the league, meaning we pin all our hopes on a top 10-15 (generously) in the league ruck, and a 36-40th league ruck.

So no issue with ROB as ruckman #1?

We just need him to be competitive - which Strachan was in 2022 when he played 2 games. Didn't look great in his 2 games in 2024, but a pretty small sample size. Of all the issues the club has had over the past 7 years its pretty amazing that the non-issue of our ruck policy draws so much attention.

 

[AFC979810]

Well at least they have the foresight to have a 20 year old ruck on their list with 2 years VFL grounding under his belt, picked up for nought as a rookie.

Did that stop them drafting Logan Smith with pick 71 in the 2024 draft?

We have 2 29 year old rucks fast approaching veteran status, 1 who is clearly not up to AFL standard and both out of contract years end.
On top of that ROB is a UFA who can walk if he so desires.

But hey everything is coming up roses

We have ROB and Strachan as our two ruckman. The same we have effectively had for the past 5 years with no minimal impact.

They are both out of contract in 2025. Thats when we will need to address it. It should be pretty easy to do it.

Look at Port.

2023 - Won 17 games - Leading ruckman were Scott Lycett, Brynn Treakle and Sam Hayes.

Got rid of all 3 of them in the offseason.

2024 - Won 16 games - Leading ruckman were Ivan Soldo (traded in for a bunch of picks) and Jordan Sweet for pick 50.

Its crazy. Where was this ruck hysteria in the 2024 offseason?!?!?!?

 

[ams4crows]

What is stopping us from saying it is a year ending injury? It's a stress fracture that can easily have on going complications? Strachan then doesn't have to retire can still be involved around the club and still get paid in full knowing he isn't getting another contract, a year he can invest in figuring out what he wants to do next.

 

[skam85]

So no issue with ROB as ruckman #1?

We just need him to be competitive - which Strachan was in 2022 when he played 2 games. Didn't look great in his 2 games in 2024, but a pretty small sample size. Of all the issues the club has had over the past 7 years its pretty amazing that the non-issue of our ruck policy draws so much attention.

No issue with ROB as such, he's a bit of a dud but he's not going to cost us wins.

The issue is if he goes down, and that we have no long term ROB replacement plan.

 

[Vader]

What is stopping us from saying it is a year ending injury? It's a stress fracture that can easily have on going complications? Strachan then doesn't have to retire can still be involved around the club and still get paid in full knowing he isn't getting another contract, a year he can invest in figuring out what he wants to do next.

Because the Inactive List rules state that medical evidence is required proving that the injury is season-ending - and Strachan's diagnosis is nothing like season ending. They're talking about him being available around the R1-3 window, which is far from season ending.

 

[AFC979810]

No issue with ROB as such, he's a bit of a dud but he's not going to cost us wins.

Agreed.

The issue is if he goes down, and that we have no long term ROB replacement plan.

I think the idea is to ride out ROB / Strachan which has been just fine for the past 4 years. Very easy to completely revamp your ruck situation in a single offseason as numerous other clubs have shown.

 

[skam85]

Agreed.



I think the idea is to ride out ROB / Strachan which has been just fine for the past 4 years. Very easy to completely revamp your ruck situation in a single offseason as numerous other clubs have shown.

It's too reactive for my liking. and our past four years haven't exactly set the world on fire, for many reasons and ruck being one of them

 

[GreyCrow]

So no issue with ROB as ruckman #1?

We just need him to be competitive - which Strachan was in 2022 when he played 2 games. Didn't look great in his 2 games in 2024, but a pretty small sample size. Of all the issues the club has had over the past 7 years its pretty amazing that the non-issue of our ruck policy draws so much attention.

Its only a non-issue in yours and one or 2 others heads

The rest of us see the gaping hole - one which was acknowledged by the club - and hope it is fixed soon

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Agreed.



I think the idea is to ride out ROB / Strachan which has been just fine for the past 4 years. Very easy to completely revamp your ruck situation in a single offseason as numerous other clubs have shown.

I would seriously hope that this is not the plan, and I would take a guess that it is not that easy to revamp your ruck stocks seeing as we still have two average at best ruckmen and no developing rucks on the list.