Autopsy 2025 Preliminary Final: Hawks get rolled

[BuddyHawk]

I wonder if we'll have a change in strategy with our S&C team.

For the longest time the biggest difference philosophically between the Hawks from the Clarko era to now and the Cats from the Bomber era to now is that physical size.

We've had a preference for slighter frames to help run out games. This advantage was nullified as we've basically played 6 elimination finals in a row (mostly away from home).
Cats have had a preference for stronger bodies to help in the clinches. When the Cats can afford to rest players throughout the year it pays off big time.

Our side atm is definitely more lightly framed than the Cats, but our prime 2012-15 team under Clarkson had plenty of big-bodied players.

Hodge, Burgoyne, Lewis, Sewell, Rioli, Roughead, Lake, Guerra, Gibson and Poppy were all powerfully built and absolutely ferocious at the contest (and I’m probably forgetting a few), which was why we hardly ever lost the contested-ball count in those seasons.

If you go back and watch the famous 2013 prelim, it’s obvious how much stronger we are than Geelong, right across the field. They hung in there with some smart counter-attacking, a Stevie J masterclass and errant Hawthorn kicking, but were absolutely knackered by the last quarter (a bit like us last week). Even in the 2012 GF loss we smashed the Swans around stoppages, and that Sydney team had some serious power.

As always, the key is finding the balance between inside strength and outside run. Our current side isn’t there yet, but we are making progress. Day obviously provides a strong dose of both, which is why he’s so hard to cover when he’s not available.

 

[H00t]

I wonder if we'll have a change in strategy with our S&C team.

For the longest time the biggest difference philosophically between the Hawks from the Clarko era to now and the Cats from the Bomber era to now is that physical size.

We've had a preference for slighter frames to help run out games. This advantage was nullified as we've basically played 6 elimination finals in a row (mostly away from home).
Cats have had a preference for stronger bodies to help in the clinches. When the Cats can afford to rest players throughout the year it pays off big time.

This might just be the horizontal vs vertical stripes providing an optical illusion.

The cats have a lot of lightly build runners in their team. Probably been one of their biggest changes from their late 2010’s-2020 teams to now.

They’ve got Danger and Atkins as bigger bodies but all the rest are mainly focussed on running power. Being hard at the contest doesn’t require a big body.

 

[Hawkk]

It's cold comfort, but it appears that ONE team in the history of the AFL has won a PF on the back of two consecutive interstate finals (non neutral venue).

That was Adelaide almost 30 years ago.

Puts things into context on how valuable top 4 is, when a finals series features 4 interstate teams.

But also what razor thin margins there are between a good and great team when the field doesn't feature a dominant contender.

Probably worth pointing out that they got smoked by 12 goals in the QF in that series too.

 

[DearJai]

Probably worth pointing out that they got smoked by 12 goals in the QF in that series too.

Top 4 affords teams a bad game during finals, which is invaluable.

They won two flags during seasons where other teams were the consensus better talents.

Both Grand finals they won they absolutely turned it on too. 1998 they were on the back foot, then ultimately torched Wayne Carey's Kangaroos at the peak of their powers. Did the same to favorite St. Kilda the year before.

Proves how valuable top 4 is.

 

[Flamin Joe]

It's always the same three factors when we play Geelong

1. Geelong getting every 50/50 call in their favour
2. Hawks players making uncharecistic skill errors
3. Geelong bigger bodies grinding us down by the end of the game

I feel that a lot of this is between the ears. They've had the wood on us for so long it's only natural that you are going to start to have little doubts creep in the back of your mind which just ups the pressure when you play them. Add to that it's a prelim and it stacks on the pressure.

It was absolutely critical to our chances that we jumped them early to help quash these nerves but even when we did you could still see it was having an effect. The fact we didn't quite get full reward for our dominance early and kept the door open for them would not have helped and probably played on their minds going into the 2nd and the rest was history.

We really need to address this over the off season and as I said after the game have a line in the sand moment against this mob.

 

[tommyk72]

I feel that a lot of this is between the ears. They've had the wood on us for so long it's only natural that you are going to start to have little doubts creep in the back of your mind which just ups the pressure when you play them. Add to that it's a prelim and it stacks on the pressure.

It was absolutely critical to our chances that we jumped them early to help quash these nerves but even when we did you could still see it was having an effect. The fact we didn't quite get full reward for our dominance early and kept the door open for them would not have helped and probably played on their minds going into the 2nd and the rest was history.

We really need to address this over the off season and as I said after the game have a line in the sand moment against this mob.

I feel it more had to do with winning 2x interstate finals and being exhausted than the mental side.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I feel it more had to do with winning 2x interstate finals and being exhausted than the mental side.

Was probably a bit of both.

Being exhausted doesn't explain all the easy dropped marks and fluffed kicks in the first half when they were still fresh.

 

[barbster]

Just hard being beaten by the same old same old. All I hope for next year is to beat the cats and convincingly.

 

[hawksfan71]

Yeah always feels like when we play Geelong we’re getting destroyed by the umpires. They just skirt the rules well but it always feels so inconsistent against them

no it's not feels like we do get screwed just watch the replay, yes cats were very good at the end but were clearly given the momentim, the kick start to go on, multiple clear goals going to them or against us for crazy reasons. Even the flog commentators on seven mentioned a couple of them and richo

 

[hawksfan71]

Just hard being beaten by the same old same old. All I hope for next year is to beat the cats and convincingly.

that's what i kook forward to the most to beat Geelong maybe next year.....

 

[killerspud]

Key to beating this mob is smashing them in the middle. Breaking the multiple tags they put on your best players (to give theirs time and space) You need to watch their small forwards and their mids and wingmen who run inside 50 and play as small forwards. We were too tall and lacking mobility in defence. Also you really have to take every single chance that comes. Need to be 6.3 not 3.6

 

[Mitch75]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here already. They were going through the GF preview today on SEN and said that Geelong has the best red-time score differential in the competition. Against us last week in the Prelim it was 52-2 points scored in time on each quarter… that’s the game right there.

 

[barbster]

no it's not feels like we do get screwed just watch the replay, yes cats were very good at the end but were clearly given the momentim, the kick start to go on, multiple clear goals going to them or against us for crazy reasons. Even the flog commentators on seven mentioned a couple of them and richo

Agreed
It's a final, put the whistle away and only play the blatant frees not the iffy ones.

 

[tommyk72]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here already. They were going through the GF preview today on SEN and said that Geelong has the best red-time score differential in the competition. Against us last week in the Prelim it was 52-2 points scored in time on each quarter… that’s the game right there.

I would also imagine that we are one of the worst teams to getting scored against in red time. I’ve noticed the trend that we normally give up at least one to 2 if not more goals in red time each week even if we’ve been on top for a quarter.

 

[MatteeG]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here already. They were going through the GF preview today on SEN and said that Geelong has the best red-time score differential in the competition. Against us last week in the Prelim it was 52-2 points scored in time on each quarter… that’s the game right there.

To be fair it feels like we frequently leak goals in the last 2 mins of quarters. Ugh.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here already. They were going through the GF preview today on SEN and said that Geelong has the best red-time score differential in the competition. Against us last week in the Prelim it was 52-2 points scored in time on each quarter… that’s the game right there.

This.
We need contested beasts in the contest at all times.
Blokes that will wear the hits and not shirk or drop off.
It all starts in the middle.

 

[The hands of stone]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here already. They were going through the GF preview today on SEN and said that Geelong has the best red-time score differential in the competition. Against us last week in the Prelim it was 52-2 points scored in time on each quarter… that’s the game right there.

Would have been Daniel Hoyne , he bought that up last Tuesday .
They were something ridiculous like 200+ ahead of the 2nd best - but this also would have been skewed over the last 6 weeks in H+A due to opponant.

I would think most of the really good teams would be well in the positive for that stat.

 

[fairdinks]

Would have been Daniel Hoyne , he bought that up last Tuesday .
They were something ridiculous like 200+ ahead of the 2nd best - but this also would have been skewed over the last 6 weeks in H+A due to opponant.

I would think most of the really good teams would be well in the positive for that stat.

wouldn't that indicate they have superior fitness to continually win the last few minutes each game. Or is it artificially/chemically assisted?

 

[DearJai]

Agreed
It's a final, put the whistle away and only play the blatant frees not the iffy ones.

I can't think of a game or final we won that they didn't get umpired back into things here and there.

I'm sure I'm guilty of bias in this viewpoint, but even in 2008 we had to take the umpires out of things to get a break on them.

We had serious momentum in the first quarter that was broken by a free and then 50 that resulted in a goal. Then another free not long after.

Sometimes the match can change on a decision or two. Our advantage was reduced to nothing right there.

In the Prelim the most obvious (but certainly not the one one) was the Chol report tackle that should have resulted in a free and shot at goal.

Instead somehow he winds up getting cited by the MRP instead....

On that one at least, it's pretty cut and dry what the right decision was.

 

[Mr Lizard]

On that one at least, it's pretty cut and dry what the right decision was.

Stewart handpassed the ball...

 

[DearJai]

Stewart handpassed the ball...

View attachment 2438820

One handed handball

Also tried to break the tackle, didn't succeed

It's out of his right hand before the left one hits it. Chol's tackle breaks it free.

Had his prior, tried to break a tackle and didn't dispose of it properly = automatic free



Definitely time to move on from this... but.

Danger did the exact same thing while being tackled by two Hawks, only it was way more obvious - the ball is a mile out of his hand - and they showed it in his 'highlights' LOLOL:




Then he dove on the ground and took out Sic's and CJ's legs in different passages of play, and it wasn't even subtle in CJ's case (also in his 'highlights'):






Then that center clearance where Ward tackled him and Danger just drops the ball on the deck:

 

[Big Hotdog]

One handed handball

Also tried to break the tackle, didn't succeed

It's out of his right hand before the left one hits it. Chol's tackle breaks it free.

Had his prior, tried to break a tackle and didn't dispose of it properly = automatic free

View attachment 2438835

At best was an open handed slap handball
Gone

 

[Ram-Man]

They won’t be playing the stupid ****ing music after every goal in the GF will they?

 

[Lando_]

that's what i kook forward to the most to beat Geelong maybe next year.....

We will beat them in the grand final, again.

 

[DearJai]

They won’t be playing the stupid ****ing music after every goal in the GF will they?

Boomer tunes have no place in AFL finals.

At least go for something Gen X if you absolutely have to smother the crowd showing their appreciation for the game.

Better yet, don't play anything till the umpire is almost back to the middle.