Autopsy 2025 Round 18: Swans swindle slow Saints

[aussierulesrules]

Wow, after recording equal-game-high clearance numbers in each of the last two weeks (10 and 8), and attending a game-high 26 centre bounces yesterday, Hugo didn’t trouble the scorers for a clearance yesterday!

A whopping 14 of our group registered at least one, and Wood and Windy both had equal-team-highs of 5, from the wings (0 CBA’s each), but not a single one from our best in that area over the previous two weeks, who attended the most centre bounces of anyone.

You’d have gotten fair odds about all that happening, prior to the game!

 

[The Punter]

Wow, after recording equal-game-high clearance numbers in each of the last two weeks (10 and 8), and attending a game-high 26 centre bounces yesterday, Hugo didn’t trouble the scorers for a clearance yesterday!

A whopping 14 of our group registered at least one, and Wood and Windy both had equal-team-highs of 5, from the wings (0 CBA’s each), but not a single one from our best in that area over the previous two weeks, who attended the most centre bounces of anyone.

You’d have gotten fair odds about all that happening, prior to the game!

And yet he kicked a goal from a centre clearance.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Holding him to a contract because someone doesnt cough up a first is being an arseh*le and spitting in his face to a guy who has given everything to this club when youre gonna have him playing in the twos behind the guy we wined and dined to get in IMO.

Ultimately to me if he wants out we should do right by him, demanding a first round pick isnt that IMO (if we get one great, if we cant we should accept a second or whatever and get it done).

Your opinion but it sounds too emotional to me. We are not being aholes by keeping him or accepting a 1st. That’s the gig.

 

[aussierulesrules]

And yet he kicked a goal from a centre clearance.

Someone must have fed it to him, otherwise he’d have recorded one there.

 

[phantom13]

Your opinion but it sounds too emotional to me. We are not being aholes by keeping him or accepting a 1st. That’s the gig.

If hes not worth a first to the club he nominates then we are. Were also just wasting him and salary cap space over some view that we have that no one else has.

Its not emotional at all, its respectful and aware of what hes worth. If someone offers a first great, take it, if they dont we really should accept a second. You said yourself a 1st was overs, why make him stay purely so we can **** over some other club.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Yeah he broke out of the centre a few times, as the first receiver.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

more positives than negatives - should have won that
Hunter Clark very ordinary
Brad Hill - that mistake that cost a goal OMG

Clark needs to set some fitness targets for next preseason he either meets them or doesn’t play.

 

[phantom13]

Someone must have fed it to him, otherwise he’d have recorded one there.

Roma got the handball, its Romas clearance there.

Funny stat the clearance, sometimes it goes to someone who gets a hand in that knocks it into a players path even if that player then has to break 4 tackles and jam it on the boot.

 

[Nutsngum]

Someone must have fed it to him, otherwise he’d have recorded one there.

Yeah, Marshall. Its why stats can sometimes be somewhat misleading. Marshall basically took the ball out of the ruck and then hand balled it on to him in quick succession.

Its one of those "not a clearance but was the player who cleared the ball" ones.

 

[jwikked]

Clark needs to set some fitness targets for next preseason he either meets them or doesn’t play.

I can’t see him changing now. He’s been in the system for years with zero improvement in fitness

 

[Diehard Saint]

And yet he kicked a goal from a centre clearance.

A thing of beauty it was, too.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Yeah, Marshall. Its why stats can sometimes be somewhat misleading. Marshall basically took the ball out of the ruck and then hand balled it on to him in quick succession.

Its one of those "not a clearance but was the player who cleared the ball" ones.

Yeah I think you have to be the first one in the chain of possessions that clears the ball from the area, to be credited with the clearance.

That was a wild set of numbers we had yesterday. Even Sharman had one!

 

[SG34]

OK, so what’s your verdict on Caminiti as a defender?

Have you seen enough to convince you,
1) he’ll be a defender for sure, and a solid lock in each week, steadily ‘learning his trade’
2) I haven’t made my mind up about his position, but he’s too valuable to delist or trade
3) I think he’s honestly better suited up forward or maybe on a wing, basically not as a key defender
4) delist or trade or Sandy as a backup
5) I’d prefer not to discuss Hammer. It’s healthier for us all to blame Hill for everything.

 

[Jade Buddha]

If hes not worth a first to the club he nominates then we are. Were also just wasting him and salary cap space over some view that we have that no one else has.

Its not emotional at all, its respectful and aware of what hes worth. If someone offers a first great, take it, if they dont we really should accept a second. You said yourself a 1st was overs, why make him stay purely so we can **** over some other club.

Again emotional. Value is in the eye of the beholder. Respectful is making them aware and being open. Do you think we are hiding things from him?

 

[SaintersUnite]

I see the logic of TDK. Sure it might be a sideways in terms of talent when compared to Roma, but he’s got 5 extra years on him and we can then trade-on Roma for another good draft pick.
The money shouldn’t be a concern, if we don’t spend it on TDK then we either don’t spend it at all or we overpay other players that we already have.

For what it’s worth though, Marshall doesn’t want to go anywhere (straight from the horse’s mouth).

 

[phantom13]

Again emotional. Value is in the eye of the beholder. Respectful is making them aware and being open. Do you think we are hiding things from him?

Lol, okay, im saying get fair value and dont **** him over and youre saying if it aint a first make the campaigner play twos but IM the emotional one.

Do i think were hiding things from him? I actually have no idea what youre asking.

Lets say Geelong courts him and he asks for Geelong as a destination.

Geelong absolutely refuses to even discuss a first rounder given his form, age and body concerns. But theyll do a second (or maybe our second for their first). Then i think we should take that. Put aside the the fact i think we should do a deal for a guy thats earned it, with TDK in Roma has absolutely no place in a first choice 23, its argurable he plays at all unless TDK goes down and at that point (as a pure backup) hes not worth a first for anyone.

We also get the luxury of an extra 800k (or whatever his salary is) back into the cap to top up the kids and retain say a Dodson to develop.

My suggestion on Roma isnt altruistic or emotional, im quite comfortable saying i think doing reasonable deals for guys over 30 that are quite clearly surplus to needs is fine to have some degree of respect to them, but this one also just makes sense for us even if you do wanna remove that element.

If Geelong wants to give us a first, great, do the deal, if they dont, id rather we dump the salary and use their second on Fincher as it is better for us long term. Retaining him to pay him a shitload to play VFL is stupid.

Nothing emotional at all in that decision making process.

 

[BrutThough]

OK, so what’s your verdict on Caminiti as a defender?

Have you seen enough to convince you,
1) he’ll be a defender for sure, and a solid lock in each week, steadily ‘learning his trade’
2) I haven’t made my mind up about his position, but he’s too valuable to delist or trade
3) I think he’s honestly better suited up forward or maybe on a wing, basically not as a key defender
4) delist or trade or Sandy as a backup
5) I’d prefer not to discuss Hammer. It’s healthier for us all to blame Hill for everything.

Somewhere between 1 and 2.

He's a defender and improving but if certain list moves happen - we land Aleer and Howard gets another year - I'm not sure he is a lock. But still a very dependable option who could also development enough over the off season to be the starting option.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

OK, so what’s your verdict on Caminiti as a defender?

Have you seen enough to convince you,
1) he’ll be a defender for sure, and a solid lock in each week, steadily ‘learning his trade’
2) I haven’t made my mind up about his position, but he’s too valuable to delist or trade
3) I think he’s honestly better suited up forward or maybe on a wing, basically not as a key defender
4) delist or trade or Sandy as a backup
5) I’d prefer not to discuss Hammer. It’s healthier for us all to blame Hill for everything.

1 & 5
And he's been better as a defender than Cordy & Howard already.
And can get bulkier too.

 

[PostmanBish]

Improvement on Keeler because he actually competed. It was a solid debut.

His performance changed nothing in terms of his likelihood of getting a new contract with us.

I did like that he didn't just stand their taking crap from the oppo KPD all day ... gave it back with the sort of aggro you'd expect from an enraged moose, and made it pretty clear he wasn't going to be pushed around. Very different to watching our forward line most weeks.

Between Hugo and The Moose, there's a bit of mongrel floating around ... worth a contract just for that, IMHO.

And on the subject of Hugo ... was I hallucinating when I thought I saw his niggle draw a punch thrown in his direction?

 

[puppy_dog7]

OK, so what’s your verdict on Caminiti as a defender?

Have you seen enough to convince you,
1) he’ll be a defender for sure, and a solid lock in each week, steadily ‘learning his trade’
2) I haven’t made my mind up about his position, but he’s too valuable to delist or trade
3) I think he’s honestly better suited up forward or maybe on a wing, basically not as a key defender
4) delist or trade or Sandy as a backup
5) I’d prefer not to discuss Hammer. It’s healthier for us all to blame Hill for everything.

From the options you've given i'd say 1).

He's been pretty good defensively and has a good ability to intercept as well. The only issue with Hammer down back is decision making. He can get a rush of blood to the head at times and make poor decisions by foot or hand or thinking he has more time and space than he does.

But.. He is young and only just played 50 games. I think in another 30-50 games he'll be a very solid defender who can swing forward if we ever need.

 

[aussierulesrules]

As some of you may have noticed with my counting in the game day thread, there were a whopping 20 (give-or-take about 1) free kicks paid in marking contests yesterday.

It seemed almost like if there was a marking contest and someone didn’t mark the ball, they’d pluck a free kick out, so the fact Hammer gave away 4 in such a game isn’t the end of the world.

It wouldn’t surprise me if that was the most free kicks ever paid in marking contests in one game. They were white hot on anything even resembling interference.

He’s obviously got plenty of RFI in that department, but so he should, having never even trained down back for a preseason in particular.

You probably wouldn’t want him to be your no.1 lock down guy back there though. The fact he’s so high up for intercept possessions in the league so soon suggests that his go will be more of an intercepting role.

 

[puppy_dog7]

One player I think has huge potential is Hastie.

he has elite physical attributes e.g. pace/agility/vertical and has a very good kick on him too (barring last week v Hawks). But he is someone who i think can become a very high level rebounding defender for us.

190cm as well so he's a good size

 

[Speck]

I think we persist with Hammer down back. He is not that far off it - a full pre-season of defender training will help. He tries his guts out but gives away some silly free kicks (even if they aren't there a lot of the time) by doing things that umpires look for such as grabbing the jumper. Wilkie seems to be a master at contesting without giving away a free so he has someone to learn off. I think we can play Wilkie / Aleer and Caminiti in the same side, plus if we keep Howard for lower money, we'll be strong in that position.

 

[Speck]

One player I think has huge potential is Hastie.

he has elite physical attributes e.g. pace/agility/vertical and has a very good kick on him too (barring last week v Hawks). But he is someone who i think can become a very high level rebounding defender for us.

190cm as well so he's a good size

You can tell he is a confidence player. Looked really good at times yesterday - he even pushed up to the contest on half forward and wasn't out of his depth. Has to play the rest of the year.

 

[AirWinmar]

Couldnt agree more -Sydney were always looking for that short chip kick-our forwards never lead at the ball carrier-hold it until all the swans get back then bomb it long -reckon it is our biggest on field issue

I noticed big Moose was trying to do a lot of little double back leads and wasn't used. He must not be up to speed on the game plan yet. Henry also put on some good leads and wasn't used