List Mgmt. 2026 List management - pt.1

[gringo2011]

A lot of skillful players will pick up possessions in most positions on the ground.. exceptions being maybe a small forward in the ruck, or a bulky tall fullback playing as a goal sneak. The history of the game shows that some players are a natural in a certain position- a natural mid, a natural KP player, a natural winger etc. Young guys like Boxshall and Garcia are looking like natural mids with the animal instinct and body on the line attitude, where Pou looks like a skillful forward playing in the midfield. We need Pou in the forward half where we are struggling at the moment, he is a natural forward ffs.

To me Phillipou has the Nate Fyfe vibe. A utility/mid who can play various positions. As I keep mentioning, one position inside mids are like dinosaurs these days.

Guys who can rotate between spots and play multiple roles are the most valuable commodity in footy right now. Most of our younger guys have dual positions. Garcia is probably the most single position of them and he has run to overcome the one position factor.

 

[gringo2011]

I wonder if it’s part of the new ‘fast-game’ mantra? Same for Marshall’s mortars.
If Pou held on to the ball and allowed himself to get trapped in likely expectation of another ball up, it looks pretty ordinary, percentage football (almost like rugby league to my untrained eye) and the game slows down.

I think a lot of the ‘fast game’ tactics will settle down. (If it is indeed what is happening)

A lot of other clubs seem to bring the ball in quick and have a lot of low percentage shots on goal and try to defend the ball coming out. Maybe one of the reason a lot of the best sides have a lot of small forwards in the side now.

 

[gringo2011]

The Pou thing is purely timing. It’s reps and timing. With certain guys especially guys who have jiggles, sometimes it takes a block of games to get back to the speed of AFL.

I find Clark is like that. Once he has a block of 4-5 games you notice his decision making really improve.

I think Pou is like that. Against the lions you could see his timing and ball winning get better.

I know it’s psychological too but I do believe once he gets to 30 touches for the first time we’ll see some strong growth. It’s like a silent glass cieling. Windy was like that.

He's not at 50 games yet. You aren't even at the point most players start to feel like they are up to speed yet.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Why is everyone jumping off him? I'm pretty sure he's still winning more contested ball than our other mids. His blind hand balling is a bad habit but he's probably played less than a dozen games as a mid. We don't have any other mids available with Macrae, Dow and Clark all down.

He's kept up with the best midfield in footy for 3/4 of last week. It's not the 1980s anymore. You don't need to bash and crash. Keeping your feet and playing two way footy is much more benefit that hip and shouldering everyone around you.

Composure, skills under pressure, working your way through heavy traffic and learning set plays to get the ball outside all come with game time and experience.

No guarantee any player makes it but every match played in the middle at AFL level is probably probably worth 10 at VFL level. This is fast tracking his development. The coaches must think that he's the one worth putting the time into. They'd know more than most of us.

If Im honest I have never thought he has looked a natural mid at any time in his career, even as a junior.

He has the size and skills that he can develop into a midfielder, but his ball winning and inside play are not an instinctive game. To suggest he kept up with the Brisbane midfield is folly, he played 60% game time and looked absolutely cooked in the last.

If thats his TOG output, I would much prefer Hunter Clark or Hugh Boxshall playing that inside role. He is young and has time to improve, but my issue is why is he being given the opportunity over others, I dont think he has deserved it.

 

[gringo2011]

If Im honest I have never thought he has looked a natural mid at any time in his career, even as a junior.

He has the size and skills that he can develop into a midfielder, but his ball winning and inside play are not an instinctive game. To suggest he kept up with the Brisbane midfield is folly, he played 60% game time and looked absolutely cooked in the last.

If thats his TOG output, I would much prefer Hunter Clark or Hugh Boxshall playing that inside role. He is young and has time to improve, but my issue is why is he being given the opportunity over others, I dont think he has deserved it.

Yeah he kept up for three quarter then fell over in the last. That's what I said.

Boxshall has never played midfield in the AFL system. You think he's going to be an upgrade?

Hunter Clark has barely played consistent midfield in his 8 seasons so far and has never managed more than about 60% TOG in his entire career. Not sure he's the answer either.

 

[SainterEire]

Has there been any updates on the Collard investigation?

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Re: the Pou’s handballing over his head, i agree it’s a habit that can be trained out. I remember Clayton Oliver

10

Clayton Oliver

Age

28

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

early days would do a similar thing. He’d handball as soon as he took possession and people were suggest Melbourne should trade him. He then learned to drive his legs through the contest and become one of the best mids in the competition (Before going off the rails).

Patience and exposure and I think he’ll be a player who can more than contribute in the midfield.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Yeah he kept up for three quarter then fell over in the last. That's what I said.

Boxshall has never played midfield in the AFL system. You think he's going to be an upgrade?

Hunter Clark has barely played consistent midfield in his 8 seasons so far and has never managed more than about 60% TOG in his entire career. Not sure he's the answer either.

Perhaps when we get Macrae back things will change. ATM its about winning games, give Pou short spells but he is not up to entire games playing through the mids.

Boxshall has had some spells through the middle and Clark at least provides clean ball to the outside runners.

Boxshall like Phillipou has a long way but at least he puts his head over the ball and shows intent when tackling. Phillipou IMO still wants to play a minimal contact game.

 

[saintmike65]

I really liked him but probably would have gone for Trainor at 8 and tried to trade back in to get Shanners. Barrat is probably the one that I wouldn't have popped on that early. I really liked Moraes, Mraz and Jack Ough. I was all in on Murphy Reid and that's probably who I would have jumped on with that pick 8.

Murphy Reid has skill & high footy nous..just what we need!
I also liked Shanahan

 

[The Slug]

Has there been any updates on the Collard investigation?

Delayed until next week

 

[BrutThough]

Has there been any updates on the Collard investigation?

Frankston player says he did it. Collard is maintaining he didnt.
AFL delaying because they dont know what to do.

 

[SG34]

If Im honest I have never thought he has looked a natural mid at any time in his career, even as a junior.

He has the size and skills that he can develop into a midfielder, but his ball winning and inside play are not an instinctive game. To suggest he kept up with the Brisbane midfield is folly, he played 60% game time and looked absolutely cooked in the last.

If thats his TOG output, I would much prefer Hunter Clark or Hugh Boxshall playing that inside role. He is young and has time to improve, but my issue is why is he being given the opportunity over others, I dont think he has deserved it.

I mentioned this in another post. Pou may or may not make it, but either way, he is playing with his speed annd condition compromised. and it will take 3-6 months to get up to best match condition. His selection in the firsts must be because we simply are out of options. Hence Garcia and Pou in the midfield.

EDIT: and it’s his fourth season people. That’s a lot of team meetings. A lot of videos. A lot of watched games. So he should
Know by now. Enough of this ‘he’s gonna take time’ to get it. Unfortunately, his body is problem now. If his brain doesn’t get it. It never will - unless, maybe as a defender?

 

[g_TRAIN]

Has there been any updates on the Collard investigation?

Both parties (AFL and Collard) maintaining their stance.

No verdict likely until next week

 

[gringo2011]

Murphy Reid has skill & high footy nous..just what we need!
I also liked Shanahan

Both guys on my list. I really liked Trainor too but the concussion stuff spooked plenty. I really loved Jagga Smith early too. He's starting to look like the player he projected as now. Would have been a good year to be a really bad side.

 

[saintbill]

Yeah he kept up for three quarter then fell over in the last. That's what I said.

Boxshall has never played midfield in the AFL system. You think he's going to be an upgrade?

Hunter Clark has barely played consistent midfield in his 8 seasons so far and has never managed more than about 60% TOG in his entire career. Not sure he's the answer either.

The answer is Mitch Owens I would also throw Wilson in there to fast track his development.

Midfield group of Owens, NAS, Windhager, Hall, Wilson, Garcia, Flanders. Plenty of talent, mix of speed and grunt (provided by Owens). Macrae should be permanently in the 2s now IMO.

I for the life of me still can't understand this narrative Owens can't cut it as a midfielder. He is our best contested player, and it is not really close.

He will figure it out, if only he got the opportunities Pou did.

 

[gringo2011]

The answer is Mitch Owens I would also throw Wilson in there to fast track his development.

Midfield group of Owens, NAS, Windhager, Hall, Wilson, Garcia, Flanders. Plenty of talent, mix of speed and grunt (provided by Owens). Macrae should be permanently in the 2s now IMO.

I for the life of me still can't understand this narrative Owens can't cut it as a midfielder. He is our best contested player, and it is not really close.

He will figure it out, if only he got the opportunities Pou did.

You are just trying something different rather than moving a known quantity in there. At the moment we are playing for wins not playing the kids and throwing the magnets around. Owens probably would have needed to be trialled over the preseason at least.

Wilson looks like a guy who's special talent is run and endurance, he's quite good around goals and neat with his ground ball pick ups. He looks like a pure outside player who suits wing or high HF.

The ideal midfield set up is one pure extractor like an old school rover type that feeds the ball out from the tap, one defensive positioned mid, ideally a good tackler and able to two way run, a third mid who has ability to move out through traffic fast and starts peeling forward or finding limited space around themselves, needs good disposal to feed out. Then you have your wings- one offensive one more defensive. Then high half forwards who peel up like wings and add to the outside run.

 

[thekizzler]

Frankston player says he did it. Collard is maintaining he didnt.
AFL delaying because they dont know what to do.

Now we realise how well and efficiently the AFL was run under Gillon McLachlan.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

You are just trying something different rather than moving a known quantity in there. At the moment we are playing for wins not playing the kids and throwing the magnets around. Owens probably would have needed to be trialled over the preseason at least.

Wilson looks like a guy who's special talent is run and endurance, he's quite good around goals and neat with his ground ball pick ups. He looks like a pure outside player who suits wing or high HF.

The ideal midfield set up is one pure extractor like an old school rover type that feeds the ball out from the tap, one defensive positioned mid, ideally a good tackler and able to two way run, a third mid who has ability to move out through traffic fast and starts peeling forward or finding limited space around themselves, needs good disposal to feed out. Then you have your wings- one offensive one more defensive. Then high half forwards who peel up like wings and add to the outside run.

Are you playing Captain Obvious today?

Everyone who watches the game knows how the midfield sets up, we see it 20-30 times a game.

The reason Owens name was raised is his big strong aggressive attack on the ball, which we have lacked. Flanders is an accumulator, Garcia has been used in a tagging role most weeks, they are playing Windy at half back, Nas is very much an outside midfielder and Phillipou doesnt know what he should be doing.

I think when Caminiti and King return I hope the coaching staff might actually start using Owens through the mids. At present we are reliant on his contest work in the F50. As far as skills are concerned Owens makes better decision by hands than Phillipou and its only when Pou has time that his kicking would be ahead of Mitch. Its hard to know how Mitch would go fitness wise but he seemed to cope with the half forward/rucking role.

Lyon and others in the AFL have a habbit of putting a line through players positionally and Im concerned they have that with using Mitch as a midfielder.

 

[thekizzler]

Are you playing Captain Obvious today?

Everyone who watches the game knows how the midfield sets up, we see it 20-30 times a game.

The reason Owens name was raised is his big strong aggressive attack on the ball, which we have lacked. Flanders in an accumulator, Garcia has been used in a tagging role most weeks, they are playing Windy at half back, Nas is very much an outside midfielder and Phillipou doesnt know what he should be doing.

I think when Caminiti and King return I hope the coaching staff might actually start using Owens through the mids. At present we are reliant on his contest work in the F50. As far as skills are concerned Owens makes better decision by hands than Phillipou and its only when Pou has time that his kicking would be ahead of Mitch. Its hard to know how Mitch would go fitness wise but he seemed to cope with the half forward/rucking role.

Lyon and others in the AFL have a habbit of putting a line through players positionally and Im concerned they have that with using Mitch as a midfielder.

Which particular players are you talking about? Would love to see a list.

Owens has had 15 scores in four games. Last season he had 41 in 19.

A couple of more accurate kicks would see him top five in the Coleman.

He is a really important part of the F50 unit both attacking and also in the defensive pressure.

And last season he was showing plenty of promise in attack as well.

Maybe that's the reason for his low mid time.

 

[The Punter]

The low disposal argument can be used against both of Pou and Owens, or neither of them, but not only one of them.

The criticism of both of them as potential midfielders is they're not ball hogs. But because Owens is perhaps the most competitive Saint we've seen since Hamill (also not a mid), some think that skill is easily transferable.

I asked on Monday in the autopsy thread: is Owens just a 12-16 disposals, 1-2 goal per game player?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Is the blind handballing a habit or is it evidence that he can see the game unfolding and other midfielders aren’t on that wave length.

The amount of times in opening round Daicos & the Pies shot blind over the head handballs that they just ran onto and the crowd got their balls tickled watching it - is that a poor habit or a team in the same wavelength?

I agree at times he should collect and take the tackle. But this is a very new part of his game and it makes me wonder if he is trying to keep the ball alive while drawing in the tackler and avoiding the HtB.

There needs to be better balance to it aswell.

That's a very generous interpretation.

We set up to crowd the contest not to expect to win it and have players loose forward of the ball, so Pou is either not playing to instructions or panicking when he goes with the wild over the head handball.

Which particular players are you talking about? Would love to see a list.

Owens has had 15 scores in four games. Last season he had 41 in 19.

A couple of more accurate kicks would see him top five in the Coleman.

He is a really important part of the F50 unit both attacking and also in the defensive pressure.

And last season he was showing plenty of promise in attack as well.

Maybe that's the reason for his low mid time.

There's only one reason for Mitch Owens low midfield time - and that's Max Kings knee.

King's regent: Owens' forward move to bolster Saints' new attack

Mitch Owens could be the man to help fill the void left by the injured Max King and Jack Hayes, training as a permanent forward following the Christmas break.

www.saints.com.au

 

[thekizzler]

That's a very generous interpretation.

We set up to crowd the contest not to expect to win it and have players loose forward of the ball, so Pou is either not playing to instructions or panicking when he goes with the wild over the head handball.



There's only one reason for Mitch Owens low midfield time - and that's Max Kings knee.

King's regent: Owens' forward move to bolster Saints' new attack

Mitch Owens could be the man to help fill the void left by the injured Max King and Jack Hayes, training as a permanent forward following the Christmas break.

www.saints.com.au

Maybe.

But circling back to a point that The Punter has made all summer...we don't really have a forward line with great defensive pressure. And I would argue Owens is one of the best in this area.

Adding King in and taking Owens out would weaken this area of the team significantly. Maybe that's the reason for Butler's inclusion but he seems to be really struggling at the moment.

I am going to guess that Owens will remain forward and play on a weaker defender when King returns and hopefully his performances improve even more.

I would like to see him through the midfield at some point, just not sure it's needed after one bad quarter. In our other matches, our midfield has been good in key categories such as contested footy and clearance.

 

[The Punter]

Maybe.

But circling back to a point that The Punter has made all summer...we don't really have a forward line with great defensive pressure. And I would argue Owens is one of the best in this area.

Adding King in and taking Owens out would weaken this area of the team significantly. Maybe that's the reason for Butler's inclusion but he seems to be really struggling at the moment.

I am going to guess that Owens will remain forward and play on a weaker defender when King returns and hopefully his performances improve even more.

I would like to see him through the midfield at some point, just not sure it's needed after one bad quarter. In our other matches, our midfield has been good in key categories such as contested footy and clearance.

Butler playing for his career now. The open game should suit him because he's a chaser rather than a close-quarter tackler.

But I've said it is a vital role. I think Ryan is doing pretty well in that regard so far (and is very good in other areas). But we always need pressure on rebounding opposition defenders.

Against Collingwood it was good, Melbourne very poor, seemed satisfactory against GWS and Brisbane. But it can lead to high quality entries and well-located shots on goal: the Brisbane game was not marred by poor kicking for goal overall, but too many of our shots coming from difficult areas on the ground. When we played well early under Ross (and when we looked good under Ratten FWIW), a lot of it was predicated on the shots on goal coming from close and from directly in front.

 

[Diehard Saint]

If Im honest I have never thought he has looked a natural mid at any time in his career, even as a junior.

He has the size and skills that he can develop into a midfielder, but his ball winning and inside play are not an instinctive game. To suggest he kept up with the Brisbane midfield is folly, he played 60% game time and looked absolutely cooked in the last.

If thats his TOG output, I would much prefer Hunter Clark or Hugh Boxshall playing that inside role. He is young and has time to improve, but my issue is why is he being given the opportunity over others, I dont think he has deserved it.

60% game time off a corkie with 5 being rotated on the bench now.
And coming off an injury-ridden season.
Seems to me the club are trying to look after a young player and ease him back in slowly.

 

[stavro#4]

Bailey
Walsh

….

Bergman