Expansion 20th AFL team location

[Adz2332]

In what way? North maybe s**t on field but can actually stand on their own two feet off the field

comfortably in the bottom for crowd numbers and also for memberships.

 

[juss]

I don't think a 3rd WA club is the best idea. West Coast dominate that market, Freo have some sort of struggling foothold.

How the hell with a 3rd team crack the market? It won't work based out of Perth, and I don't think there's an alternative feasible option elsewhere in WA.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

And now a further dilution of the talent pool. Oh well, a lot more average players will be getting AFL gigs.

Reduce playing numbers to 14 or 16 a side. That's a teams worth of players right there.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I don't think a 3rd WA club is the best idea. West Coast dominate that market, Freo have some sort of struggling foothold.

How the hell with a 3rd team crack the market? It won't work based out of Perth, and I don't think there's an alternative feasible option elsewhere in WA.

I think a Traditional Big WAFL club can succeed.

 

[LordLucifer]

Argh the talent pool is already to diluted as is. no need for a 20th team.

Merge kangas and GC back to 18.

The old "talent pool is diluted" fallacy, its a flawed argument at the best of times.

Even if it was true (and I'm not buying it for one minute) there are two things to consider that would address the supposed issue.

1. New clubs in new areas promote the game which in turn, attract more youngsters into actually playing the game, increase the overall participation and you have a greater pool of talent to work with.

2. Reduce the number of players on field by 2 and only have four on the bench thus meaning you only need 20-players per game. In addition to that, list sizes can then be reduced down to 36 or 38 as there is no need to have up to 44 players if this was the plan was implemented (yes, I hear you, this is another whole seperate discussion)

Furthermore, if all 18 clubs jettisoned 6-8 players each, then you would instantly have anywhere from 100 to 140 players looking for another gig. With list numbers set at say 36, this would mean there would be enough players to fill an extra three clubs lists. Yes, you can argue about the quaity of the players let go but they will have come directly from inside the AFL system.

 

[Great8]

I think a Traditional Big WAFL club can succeed.

The WAFL gets woeful attendances and memberships now, I just can’t see a traditional WAFL or SANFL club joining. It will be another composite club from with SA and WA with WA far more likely IMO

 

[juss]

I think a Traditional Big WAFL club can succeed.

But would that mean you expect existing Eagles/Dockers supporters to jump ship? Is that realistic?

I get that a traditional big WAFL club might have some positive sentiment and a soft spot for a lot of WA, but if those fans are already fans of the Eagles/Dockers and passionate in that sense, I don't think a club survives or thrives long term if it's just a lot of people's "second team". You've got to be genuinely invested in it for it to work long term.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

But would that mean you expect existing Eagles/Dockers supporters to jump ship? Is that realistic?

I get that a traditional big WAFL club might have some positive sentiment and a soft spot for a lot of WA, but if those fans are already fans of the Eagles/Dockers and passionate in that sense, I don't think a club survives or thrives long term if it's just a lot of people's "second team". You've got to be genuinely invested in it for it to work long term.

I can't speak for others but I have been a West Perth supporter since well before the Eagles came along. If it was West perth I would change tomorrow. How many others were West perth their club before the Eagles and Dockers? Would they go back to the club they grew up with and followed? They changed to the Dockers or Eagles overnight so why would they not change back to what was in their heart?
I think West perth would get 15-20k people sign on within 3 months if it was them.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The WAFL gets woeful attendances and memberships now, I just can’t see a traditional WAFL or SANFL club joining. It will be another composite club from with SA and WA with WA far more likely IMO

Attendences mean nothing at WAFL and SANFL level. You throw enough money and exposure at a club in a footy state and it will grow. You only have to look at every single Vic club and Port Adelaide to see this. All are enormously bigger clubs than they were in their state leagues.

 

[Seedsfan]

comfortably in the bottom for crowd numbers and also for memberships.

No debt and have a brand new facility on the way.


You aren’t going to be able to force a club to merge that is financially stable

 

[SplintWhisky]

The old "talent pool is diluted" fallacy, its a flawed argument at the best of times.

Even if it was true (and I'm not buying it for one minute) there are two things to consider that would address the supposed issue.

1. New clubs in new areas promote the game which in turn, attract more youngsters into actually playing the game, increase the overall participation and you have a greater pool of talent to work with.

2. Reduce the number of players on field by 2 and only have four on the bench thus meaning you only need 20-players per game. In addition to that, list sizes can then be reduced down to 36 or 38 as there is no need to have up to 44 players if this was the plan was implemented (yes, I hear you, this is another whole seperate discussion)

Furthermore, if all 18 clubs jettisoned 6-8 players each, then you would instantly have anywhere from 100 to 140 players looking for another gig. With list numbers set at say 36, this would mean there would be enough players to fill an extra three clubs lists. Yes, you can argue about the quaity of the players let go but they will have come directly from inside the AFL system.

I believe the talent pool question is a massive one at the moment because there simply isnt enough money being pumped into grass roots football for the proper growth required. There have been 4 suburban football clubs that have closed within the last 12 month in Victoria. If Victoria can't sustain suburban clubs then I doubt any of the Rugby states would see major growth.

Also to your last point, the exact opposite is true as well. If we closed GWS and GCS then there would be at least 30 players that would find best 22 spots at other clubs increasing the standard of football.

Lastly upon rereading your post you contradict yourself. You say in the beginning that you don't believe in lowering the talent pool but then in your last sentance you acknowledge that there is an argument to be made that the players ejected from clubs under your ideas would be shite

 

[Great8]

Attendences mean nothing at WAFL and SANFL level. You throw enough money and exposure at a club in a footy state and it will grow. You only have to look at every single Vic club and Port Adelaide to see this. All are enormously bigger clubs than they were in their state leagues.

Port came in at the peak of their power and had plenty of supporters and members to draw on.
Norwood or a WAFL team have very few younger generation supporters or those that have a interest in the club plus West Coast/Freo/Port/Crows fans aren’t going to jump ship to a new SANFL/WAFL entry into the AFL IMO. I think that ship has long sailed and a composite side will be more advantageous

 

[MCG-Unit]

NZ

 

[LordLucifer]

Lastly upon rereading your post you contradict yourself. You say in the beginning that you don't believe in lowering the talent pool but then in your last sentance you acknowledge that there is an argument to be made that the players ejected from clubs under your ideas would be shite

I don't believe they will all be shite but that is the usual diatribe that gets conveniently trotted out by other posters whenever the concept of lowering list sizes and redistributing the players elsewhere comes up.

 

[OxfordCambridge]

Port came in at the peak of their power and had plenty of supporters and members to draw on.
Norwood or a WAFL team have very few younger generation supporters or those that have a interest in the club plus West Coast/Freo/Port/Crows fans aren’t going to jump ship to a new SANFL/WAFL entry into the AFL IMO. I think that ship has long sailed and a composite side will be more advantageous

Plenty of Crows/Port supporters would jump ship to a 3rd SA team. Imagine if Victorians had the choice of either Collingwood or the Yarra Ducks?

 

[Sphynx]

Subiaco/Claremont/Perth.


WCE are by far the wealthiest club in the league.

Fremantle in the top 6-7.


It's the market that is the one strong enough to dilute.

Try and keep it away from Freo heartland and cut into the WCE supporter base.

 

[Sphynx]

Plenty of Crows/Port supporters would jump ship to a 3rd SA team. Imagine if Victorians had the choice of either Collingwood or the Yarra Ducks?

The town isn't anywhere near as strong as Perth to withstand it.

Adelaide is extremely strong financially, but Port isn't. Fremantle is much bigger than Port financially.

It's not really going to move the needle for the Crows, but a 3rd SA side could kill Port.

 

[Philth]

I don't think a 3rd WA club is the best idea. West Coast dominate that market, Freo have some sort of struggling foothold.

How the hell with a 3rd team crack the market? It won't work based out of Perth, and I don't think there's an alternative feasible option elsewhere in WA.

Freo do not have a struggling foothold. They are a strong established club now with a large support base.

But anyway I agree with you. I live in WA. It won't work.

 

[Seedsfan]

Plenty of Crows/Port supporters would jump ship to a 3rd SA team. Imagine if Victorians had the choice of either Collingwood or the Yarra Ducks?

But no Melbourne fan under the age of 40 would remember life before the ducks.

Yeah you may get a few dinosaurs who are SANFL die hards stick with their club over the crows. But the 50 plus’s aren’t who is going to take the club forward

 

[RAPPA]

Reduce playing numbers to 14 or 16 a side. That's a teams worth of players right there.

That’ll bridge rhe quality gap between sides by removing the need to carry so many poor performing players on game day

 

[Great8]

Plenty of Crows/Port supporters would jump ship to a 3rd SA team. Imagine if Victorians had the choice of either Collingwood or the Yarra Ducks?

Maybe a composite side but if Norwood joined we would be lucky to get 20k members. Port members aren’t going to cross over and yes we might get a few disgruntled Crows members but I seriously think we would struggle.
I think a composite team is the only option

 

[Seedsfan]

That’ll bridge rhe quality gap between sides by removing the need to carry so many poor performing players on game day

Carlton fans are willing to do anything to get rid of Lachie Plowman

 

[RAPPA]

Carlton fans are willing to do anything to get rid of Lachie Plowman

There’s always a spot for Mr Plow. And Lochie O Brien. And Zac Fisher.

 

[Seedsfan]

There’s always a spot for Mr Plow. And Lochie O Brien. And Zac Fisher.

Wasn’t a spot in the 8 for them last year

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Carlton fans are willing to do anything to get rid of Lachie Plowman

No way, Plow is their "spiritual leader".