Player Watch #30: Reece Conca

[This Is Anfield]

Haha me a quality poster now I know you’re having a lend of me.

He didn't actually say "good" quality.

 

[wart101]

It’s not hypocritical as you’re suggesting guys like Prestia Conca Martin are in the same class as Conca . It’s nonsense on stilts and you know it , but just want to troll. Conca has never performed to their level and never impacted or influenced games to their level. As I said in the intensity and pressure situations they work under bc they’ve often been tagged or double tagged of course they err, but it’s their ability to perform and create positively / cleanly more often than not makes them guns. Conca should be killing it as he’s basically just a role player under least attention, yet he coughs it up and has brain fades with little resistance. Now please stop your stupidity and go back to the CEllis thread and stop derailing another thread with nonsensical stats and comparisons. So by your evaluation of the stats sheet your telling us Martin Cotchin Jack Prestia Houli etc etc etc are on the verge of being dropped as this brackets them into the bottom 22-30 bracket. Thanks for the nonsense and I will iterate again this is why stats are dangerous when they fall in the hands of people like you who don’t have a visual feel for the game and are unable to decipher between reality and dream team points. Move on as you seem to constantly backing the wrong horse of late and derailing threads with poorly researched stats and comparisons.

you could try arguing without defamation in every post.

 

[wart101]

Conca at his best is best 22 easy and easily good enough to be an AFL player.

 

[mopsy]

Richmond players averaging more turnovers per game than Conca:
Prestia 6
Cotchin 5
Riewoldt 4.8
Caddy 4.75
Houli 4.6
Short 4.3
Martin 4
B.Ellis 4
Grigg 3.8
Edwards 3.6
Lambert 3.6
McIntosh 3.5
Conca 3.5

Can we label all them turnover merchants too? Or is just the other whipping boy in Ellis that gets to wear the label?

Hmm so when Dusty takes on a fifty metre pass back into the middle and theres oppo players around and it gets cut off well its a bit different to taking on an easy kick and it gets cut off.
Like all stats you need context and you need to actually see how things unfolded on the ground otherwise they read any way you want them too.

Take B Ellis without looking up the stat id say he has one of the highest kicking effiency ratings in the team. Theres a good reason for it. He would short pass kick sideways or kick backwards more than any of our players and when he does go long it would usually be down the line to a contest. He has copped criticism because he has crucified us when he would stop prop and go backwards or sideways instead of taking the game on with a precise kick or run.

Yep you can come up with any type of stat yu like but they are useless unless they are in context.

 

[tigertigertiger]

I'm going to say something very Bigfooty

Conca slept with Bigfooty posters wives

he's a gun

 

[_RT_]

EFA
Fact This was my statement before you introduced your bull shit and i will stand by it. Why have you been absent from the Corey Ellis thread ?:

Conca is a turnover merchant and a poor decision maker. Graham is not.

I will reiterate this is why stats are dangerous when they fall into the hands of people like you who don’t have a visual feel for the game and are unable to decipher between reality and dream team points. You made a fool of yourself in the CEllis thread with stats and now that you've been silenced you're trolling in here with similar rubbish. You would have to be an imbecile to even suggest let alone compare our elite players to Conca. Give yourself a break as even his knockers know he's fringing on about 22-30 based on injuries.

The above is opinions not facts.

Not once have I suggested Conca is an elite player. I have questioned why you're so hard on fringe players like him but then excuse the 'elite' players when they make more mistakes than he does. Surely elite players would be making less errors given their skills are so much better

 

[Tiger71]

Conca's first 2 games were bad, like seriously shit. I know his DE % says diffrent but it aopeared he turned the ball over way to much and i wanted him out.

Now however he is adding pressure and is starting to clean his disposal, its still poorish but not shocking.

IMO he stays in as he allows our mids to rotate and his effort and workrate at this stage is worth more then some of his poor disposal.

I guess he is still a work in progress depth player which is understandable considering how injured he has been.

 

[TigerImposter]

Conca's first 2 games were bad, like seriously shit. I know his DE % says diffrent but it aopeared he turned the ball over way to much and i wanted him out.

Now however he is adding pressure and is starting to clean his disposal, its still poorish but not shocking.

IMO he stays in as he allows our mids to rotate and his effort and workrate at this stage is worth more then some of his poor disposal.

I guess he is still a work in progress depth player which is understandable considering how injured he has been.

Quality post with no strings attached.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I’ll send you my bank details if you would like to pay for my time on here.

Yep, send them through. With password of course.

 

[Madison]

The above is opinions not facts.

Not once have I suggested Conca is an elite player. I have questioned why you're so hard on fringe players like him but then excuse the 'elite' players when they make more mistakes than he does. Surely elite players would be making less errors given their skills are so much better

Elite players try for much riskier things. You’re being facetious rather than having an honest discussion.

We all know that Dusty, Cotch, Edwards do things on the field that most players can’t imagine doing, naturally they mess them up sometimes. They also do nearly everything in very heavy traffic and being tagged. Conca hasn’t been tagged in his life.

Yes or no, do you think Conca’s disposal and/or decision making is the equal to or better than Dusty, Cotch and Edwards? Cos that is literally what you are arguing right now.

 

[Madison]

from hardwick;

“He showed us that when he plays he’s a really valuable player.
“He’s had an injury history that’s probably hampered his development somewhat, but we’re really confident that when he gets on the park he’s a really good player for us.”

hardick has the love.

Hahaha mate, find me some quotes of Hardwick slagging our players off. I’ll wait.

He always is complimentary, every single kid we have is “going to be very good/special/long term player for us” and every player who gets dropped he “loves the way he competes and his attitude/the things he does, he’s a good player”.

But yeah, it’s Conca that he loves above all others cos he’s such a quality player.

Ps the players are “the love of (his) life” so you might be waiting a while to find a player he doesn’t praise in the media

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Hahaha mate, find me some quotes of Hardwick slagging our players off. I’ll wait.

He always is complimentary, every single kid we have is “going to be very good/special/long term player for us” and every player who gets dropped he “loves the way he competes and his attitude/the things he does, he’s a good player”.

But yeah, it’s Conca that he loves above all others cos he’s such a quality player.

Ps the players are “the love of (his) life” so you might be waiting a while to find a player he doesn’t praise in the media

Very true.

However, you forgot to put 'listen' at the beginning of Dimma's quote.

 

[Maylandsman]

Hahaha mate, find me some quotes of Hardwick slagging our players off. I’ll wait.

He always is complimentary, every single kid we have is “going to be very good/special/long term player for us” and every player who gets dropped he “loves the way he competes and his attitude/the things he does, he’s a good player”.

But yeah, it’s Conca that he loves above all others cos he’s such a quality player.

Ps the players are “the love of (his) life” so you might be waiting a while to find a player he doesn’t praise in the media

What is your point Maddy? You think he is talking shit? You think he picks him for the fun of it?
Keep waiting i’m not even bothered looking for your nonsense.
Weird post if I have ever seen one.

 

[Maylandsman]

Your criticisms of Conca sound like whinging fans going on about the Tigers premiership.
We’ll let Conca walk the walk and show why he is a very good player. And you will see him finals time.
You knockers can bluster all you like. He is going nowhere. Injuries have fooled you on the number 6 pick from a top of the range draft.

 

[Madison]

What is your point Maddy? You think he is talking shit? You think he picks him for the fun of it?
Keep waiting i’m not even bothered looking for your nonsense.
Weird post if I have ever seen one.

My point is that quoting Dimma praising him is a weak defence for him as a player cos I guarantee you I can find him saying similar stuff about every single player on our list bar none.

 

[Maylandsman]

My point is that quoting Dimma praising him is a weak defence for him as a player cos I guarantee you I can find him saying similar stuff about every single player on our list bar none.

that's nice but he said what he said. Drawing a long bow to find fault in that. He dropped Lloyd and Ellis before Conca. That's praise enough that he is doing his job and is not a bumbling fool who does not belong.
Conca is class and to tell you the truth I'm a little miffed with him being targeted as a 'turnover merchant and poor decision maker.' Which is missing the target by a long way.

 

[_RT_]

Stats stats stats stats!

Do you guys quoting stats get text based updates of the game or something? If you watch the game you can see the brain fades and poor skills. You can see Martin, Edwards, Cotch etc doing things guys like a Conca (and the vast majority of the football world) can’t do.

But no it’s all about DE% and the like.

Stats aren’t everything. Open the other eye and look at it objectively. Conca has his good qualities and has had some good games this season. But he’s on the fringes and it’s cos he’s also capable of games like on Sunday. That was a finals like game and he went missing. He did one or two good things and was involved in some scoring chains but he had only 11 touches with 4 clangers and a really really dumb 50M penalty.

I’m not even saying he should be dropped. I’m saying I’m not sure he’ll be best 22 for finals, and games like against the Pies are why.

I do look objectively, I don't let prejudices against players blind my view on a player. If a player doesn't perform as I expect I don't blow smoke up their backside and say they starred, despite what some on here think. At the same time when I see someone perform above their expected level I will praise them for that performance. On the other hand others will seemingly blindly praise their favourites and those they aren't that big a fan of get little to no recognition when they have a good game. Their favourites will get a free pass for a poor performance but others will get crucified unless with no excuse/reason accepted for a poor showing.

As for the use of stats, I use them to back my opinion with facts. A lot harder to counter an argument based on fact rather than opinion on its own.

 

[Maylandsman]

As for the use of stats, I use them to back my opinion with facts. A lot harder to counter an argument based on fact rather than opinion on its own.

the use and your of stats is fine. calling your stats irrelevant is a cop out. there aren't any hidden stats that you are not privy to. you can only present the facts as they stand.
one mans turnover is another mans, well, turnover.
Conca gets bagged for his 50m penalty...what about Rance's? different rules for different 'visual feels' I suppose.
Conca went higher than Prestia, Caddy, Heppel and Lynch in the 2010 draft. Doesn't mean much but shows how highly the Tigers rated him.
Go The Tigers.

 

[_RT_]

Hmm so when Dusty takes on a fifty metre pass back into the middle and theres oppo players around and it gets cut off well its a bit different to taking on an easy kick and it gets cut off.
Like all stats you need context and you need to actually see how things unfolded on the ground otherwise they read any way you want them too.

Take B Ellis without looking up the stat id say he has one of the highest kicking effiency ratings in the team. Theres a good reason for it. He would short pass kick sideways or kick backwards more than any of our players and when he does go long it would usually be down the line to a contest. He has copped criticism because he has crucified us when he would stop prop and go backwards or sideways instead of taking the game on with a precise kick or run.

Yep you can come up with any type of stat yu like but they are useless unless they are in context.

There is a section on the AFL site that you can watch highlights of players and I have watched vision of the best player in the comp do exactly what the likes of Conca and Brandon Ellis get lambasted for. I've seen him blindly bang the ball on the boot under little pressure and turn it over. I've seen him miss a simple 20m pass and give the opposition a direct shot on goal. I've seen him almost miss his foot and dribble kicks 15m to the opposition, on Sunday one turnover he pretty much missed his hand with a simple handball to turn it over.

But those types of poor disposals get overlooked because he does take on the dangerous options and sets up play. What I'm saying is that if people are going to rip into the likes of Conca/B.Ellis because they appear to be panicky poorly skilled turnover merchants for making simple errors like that then how about we rip into the elite players when they make basic errors given they're perceived as being much more skilled than others.

 

[Madison]

There is a section on the AFL site that you can watch highlights of players and I have watched vision of the best player in the comp do exactly what the likes of Conca and Brandon Ellis get lambasted for. I've seen him blindly bang the ball on the boot under little pressure and turn it over. I've seen him miss a simple 20m pass and give the opposition a direct shot on goal. I've seen him almost miss his foot and dribble kicks 15m to the opposition, on Sunday one turnover he pretty much missed his hand with a simple handball to turn it over.

But those types of poor disposals get overlooked because he does take on the dangerous options and sets up play. What I'm saying is that if people are going to rip into the likes of Conca/B.Ellis because they appear to be panicky poorly skilled turnover merchants for making simple errors like that then how about we rip into the elite players when they make basic errors given they're perceived as being much more skilled than others.

When Conca starts doing the things on the field Martin does I’ll be the first to forgive his basic skill errors.

 

[Madison]

that's nice but he said what he said. Drawing a long bow to find fault in that. He dropped Lloyd and Ellis before Conca. That's praise enough that he is doing his job and is not a bumbling fool who does not belong.
Conca is class and to tell you the truth I'm a little miffed with him being targeted as a 'turnover merchant and poor decision maker.' Which is missing the target by a long way.

He also praised Lloyd’s game against the Demons and then dropped him. Make of that what you will.

Ps missing the target by a long way. Nice. Hahaha

 

[This Is Anfield]

When Conca starts doing the things on the field Martin does I’ll be the first to forgive his basic skill errors.

No player, from Richmond or any other team, does what Dustin Martin can do... but really, that is hardly the point.
The point _RT_ is making, quite reasonably IMO, is that no player is immune from making errors and that even the best make simple errors and it's unfair to concentrate on the errors Reece makes and disregard the positives he brings.
As I posted earlier, Conca does a lot of the heavy lifting in the middle and his ability to find space in congested areas is actually very good.
No one is comparing Conca to Martin, Cotchin, Edwards but he is giving everything he has for the Richmond cause and his positives are far outweighing his negatives this season.
This, of course, is only my opinion formed by my observations.

The stats appear to say that he doesn't make as many errors as many claim and aren't any more numerous than the vast majority of the Richmond team... however you rank them.

 

[Madison]

No player, from Richmond or any other team, does what Dustin Martin can do... but really, that is hardly the point.
The point _RT_ is making, quite reasonably IMO, is that no player is immune from making errors and that even the best make simple errors and it's unfair to concentrate on the errors Reece makes and disregard the positives he brings.
As I posted earlier, Conca does a lot of the heavy lifting in the middle and his ability to find space in congested areas is actually very good.
No one is comparing Conca to Martin, Cotchin, Edwards but he is giving everything he has for the Richmond cause and his positives are far outweighing his negatives this season.
This, of course, is only my opinion formed by my observations.

The stats appear to say that he doesn't make as many errors as many claim and aren't any more numerous than the vast majority of the Richmond team... however you rank them.

That’s actually exactly what RT is saying. He is saying Conca has the same DE as those other players, therefore his disposal is as good.

Yes Conca does good things and we’ve actually all acknowledged that. Even TI is saying he’s played two good games with two bad games in the last four.

Most people are saying he is still prone to bad decisions and poor skill errors, and I know for me personally, I tend to think that come finals he may get found out. He may not. Finals footy is funny like that. Conca might be great cos he is good in traffic and applies good pressure. But he might be awful cos he is prone to turning it over through either skills or decision making.

The game against Collingwood was a finals like game and he was awful. That was his first test and he failed. But he’s been good up until then so he gets another chance.

 

[_RT_]

EFA
Fact This was my statement before you introduced your bull shit and i will stand by it. Why have you been absent from the Corey Ellis thread ?:

Conca is a turnover merchant and a poor decision maker. Graham is not.

I will reiterate this is why stats are dangerous when they fall into the hands of people like you who don’t have a visual feel for the game and are unable to decipher between reality and dream team points. You made a fool of yourself in the CEllis thread with stats and now that you've been silenced you're trolling in here with similar rubbish. You would have to be an imbecile to even suggest let alone compare our elite players to Conca. Give yourself a break as even his knockers know he's fringing on about 22-30 based on injuries.

Just as I thought, when presented with facts you have no ability to discuss them and just ramble on with the constant claims that you're being trolled. Here's a tip if you're having to resort to calling someone a troll it usually means that you've got nothing to discredit the other person with and are losing the debate.

Fact is Conca is no more a turnover merchant than up to a dozen of his teammates. No matter how hard you try you can't discredit that.

Fact is he is best 22 given that he has played every game this season and even though you have tried to suggest that suspension and injuries have helped this happen, why is it that when the suspended and injured players have returned Conca has been one to keep his spot while others have been omitted ahead of him? See your claim would carry more weight if we had a big injury list and Conca was being picked but our injury list consists of Rioli Markov & Cotchin. So with pretty much a full list to choose from Cotchin is still in which would suggest that without injuries Conca is ranked by those who matter as somewhere in the 15-22 bracket.

 

[TigerImposter]

Just as I thought, when presented with facts you have no ability to discuss them and just ramble on with the constant claims that you're being trolled. Here's a tip if you're having to resort to calling someone a troll it usually means that you've got nothing to discredit the other person with and are losing the debate.

Fact is Conca is no more a turnover merchant than up to a dozen of his teammates. No matter how hard you try you can't discredit that.

Fact is he is best 22 given that he has played every game this season and even though you have tried to suggest that suspension and injuries have helped this happen, why is it that when the suspended and injured players have returned Conca has been one to keep his spot while others have been omitted ahead of him? See your claim would carry more weight if we had a big injury list and Conca was being picked but our injury list consists of Rioli Markov & Cotchin. So with pretty much a full list to choose from Cotchin is still in which would suggest that without injuries Conca is ranked by those who matter as somewhere in the 15-22 bracket.

Are you still going on fmd man you have a chip on your shoulders. Give yourself a break and allow others to post.