Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

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Goldust

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Do you remember Deledio's first 6 games? Number 1 draft pick. He got six in a row. Made a total of 3 tackles in those games. Looked lost and timid.

How about premiership hero and Norm Smith Medal contender, Shane Edwards?

Good players do string games together, but often not until they get to 20-odd games.

I reckon you just like a fight and spend most of your time looking for one, these days.
CONTEXT??? Deledio's first six games canme in a Tigers team which lost three times by over 100 points and never got closer than 79 points.
He at least got his hands on the ball and contributed.
CEllis walked into a very good team
 

This Is Anfield

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hmm lack of size/strength and pace. The following has nothing to do with potential every kid that makes a list has potential.
Its based on his three seasons and both his good attributes and poor attributes coupled with his performances at the level.
It does sound critical but in fact it is nothing more than a running commentary of his game and where he is at compared to his team mates imo.

clubs roles for him.
while undersized they have played him as a hb
the hb pecking order would go a bit like this

Houli
Grimes
Vlastuin
Broad
McIntosh
Short
Markov
Conca

Performing this role who would not have him behind all of the above. He looks a liability in most areas for this role the one aspect he has for the role is his delivery by foot.

Obviously the other role is inside mid but lets say he can do both inside and out. his awareness should be able to buy him time to use his good footskills on the outside but his lack of pace hurts in this area. I mean to say people go crook at Miles lack of pace but at least miles inside work is very good in anyones language.
Inside a lack of size strength and aggression coupled with his inability so far to get enough ball at the level.

The players in front of him would go something like this.
Martin
Cotchin
Prestia
Miles
Graham
Caddy
Lambert
Edwards
Lloyd
Grigg
McIntosh
B Ellis
Menadue

The list does not include players who the club are looking at bringing into the midfield as part of rotations. Players whose primary role atm is not that of a mid. Blokes like Rioli, Butler and even newbie Higgins.

Personally i think all are in front of him atm and in fairness to them should be until Corey actually gets the runs on the board.As everyone says the kid has potential and ability but it is time to produce and actually earn a spot.
Wow! What a fantastic squad we've assembled.
Dimma and his coaches, the recruiting/development departments, the player retention people (yes, Dan Richardson deserves a bit of praise here) and the on field leaders.
Allied with the super strong off field position that we find ourselves in.
Plus, we are actually the reigning premiers! :eek:
Maybe we can put our inferiority complex behind us... not that we should ever forget the past.

On C Ellis, like all our list their are no "gifted" games and if he plays in the 22 then he's earned it.
No guarantees but it's not impossible.
 

Grrr

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Mate ...... and I'll be very specific. Other than two d******** who have continually hounded me on here for months at a time (and not in a way that is apparent to some, but is to many), I couldn't care if you disagree with me, agree with me, want to burn me at the stake, or kiss me ..... I am immune to most of the sentiments towards me.
My point ... don't post 'there will always be differing opinions' when you take issue with mine.
PS I am, not the only bloke on here who lumps people into groups, categories. It is generally accepted on here that there are two distinct groups operating here (and you might choose to disbelieve that, but we do). We have those who are branded, what are we .. the negative nancies???? What a joke. Then you have the rainbow and unicorn brigade whose sugar-coating of things is to be admired but f*** me, add nothing.
If it's not black and white, why are you always lumping me into categories and going to pains to point out my shortcomings and pit falls and my posting???? Mate, some of the posting attacking a certain poster on here (Mopsy) has been a f***** DISGRACE. Do you direct these type of posts (as above) to those who attack him? I bet not. You probably sit on the sidelines and applaud and likely join in.
I don't shy away from going hard and being strong in my opinions ..... and I'll continue to be derided for it. So be it. Ad when there is a positive I'll say so, but I won't post boastful, sugar-coated, fanboi nonsense to get my post count up.
If you are serious .. the next time someone attacks me (which happens), pull that poster up, but you won't. As I see through what you are trying to achieve.
I don't attack posters. I don't like posters who attack others, and certainly do not sit back applauding. I've had my disagreements with both you and Mopsy, but in the main have kept it civil. I've also backup you and Mopsy up on occasions if I agree with what you say.
I don't think there are two categories of posters, I think it's a bit broader than that. As I've said numerous times re CEllis, I and many others agree with a good deal with what you both have to say, not all of it, but some. I don't attack players either, I may mention their faults, but I don't go them. With Vickery I was frustrated at how he was getting games, not at the player. By and large they are all trying their guts out.
 

Goldust

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I don't attack posters. I don't like posters who attack others, and certainly do not sit back applauding. I've had my disagreements with both you and Mopsy, but in the main have kept it civil. I've also backup you and Mopsy up on occasions if I agree with what you say.
I don't think there are two categories of posters, I think it's a bit broader than that. As I've said numerous times re CEllis, I and many others agree with a good deal with what you both have to say, not all of it, but some. I don't attack players either, I may mention their faults, but I don't go them. With Vickery I was frustrated at how he was getting games, not at the player. By and large they are all trying their guts out.
There are maybe a few other categories of posters, including those (not you) who will base any argument to oppose other posters. Politician-like ... I oppose Goldy because he's the other side :p
And then there is the comedy brigade who are as funny as terrorism with their unamusing anecdotes from the peanut gallery, keeping themselves entertained.
I shall keep it civil, Grrr.
 

mopsy

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I've always marveled at the notion of how some players get continually tagged with having enormous upside and potential (CEllis), yet others get pigeon-holed as being done (Miles). What is it ....... he doesn't fit our game plan? yet he goes about getting 30-plus possessions, a lot of them inside, each week in the Twos. If 2017 proved anything, any player can improve. Miles can. Hampson can (but let's concede he won't). At the end of the day, if CEllis can finish third and sixth in a Richmond b&f we'll have a player. But some will continue to rubbish the guy who's done it.
I had this debate when we got Prestia. Miles inside game was on a par or not far behind Dions over the previous three seasons 2014,2015, 2016.
His c/p and clearance work at least statistically was very good and he averaged over 4 tackles a game, along with getting plenty of the pill with around 23 disposals a game.

If that is not good enough for people or doesnt balance out the lack of pace then how does Ellis fare.
People dont want Miles in the team because of his pace and a percieved inability to run and spread away from a contest particularly chasing a quicker opponent.
Well how the hell is Ellis going to fare in this as well.

This imo is where the coaches come into it. Lots of teams have slow inside players just like Miles most arent as effective inside as him.The coaches have structures in place that cover for them that allows them to just get on and do what they do best and thats compete at the coal face.

Im not sure how people can want Ellis in the team and not Miles if it is about inside play. your going to strike the same problems on the outside yet one is elite or bordering on it when it comes to inside work.

To me you treat each player the same performance, along with strength and weakness and the role they are expected to perform.
 

mopsy

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Wow! What a fantastic squad we've assembled.
Dimma and his coaches, the recruiting/development departments, the player retention people (yes, Dan Richardson deserves a bit of praise here) and the on field leaders.
Allied with the super strong off field position that we find ourselves in.
Plus, we are actually the reigning premiers! :eek:
Maybe we can put our inferiority complex behind us... not that we should ever forget the past.

On C Ellis, like all our list their are no "gifted" games and if he plays in the 22 then he's earned it.
No guarantees but it's not impossible.
Wtf. Apart from the last two lines im Not sure what any of that has to do with the post you quoted.
But hey why should i expect anything different, im used to those who do nothing but deflect.

On the last two lines are you going to sit there and tell us he earnt his 6 games in front of others last yr or he should have stayed in the team with the performances he put up. lol.
 

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I've always marveled at the notion of how some players get continually tagged with having enormous upside and potential (CEllis), yet others get pigeon-holed as being done (Miles). What is it ....... he doesn't fit our game plan? yet he goes about getting 30-plus possessions, a lot of them inside, each week in the Twos. If 2017 proved anything, any player can improve. Miles can. Hampson can (but let's concede he won't). At the end of the day, if CEllis can finish third and sixth in a Richmond b&f we'll have a player. But some will continue to rubbish the guy who's done it.
There's that balanced objectivity I've come to admire from you. You can bag a kid yet to play a full season at AFL but heaven forbid anyone criticise a player you're a fanboy of. If 2017 taught us anything it's that players who were once walk up starts in the 22 aren't necessarily still that heading into 2018. Younger and/or better players are waiting/taking their positions.
 

This Is Anfield

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Wtf. Apart from the last two lines im Not sure what any of that has to do with the post you quoted.
But hey why should i expect anything different, im used to those who do nothing but deflect.

On the last two lines are you going to sit there and tell us he earnt his 6 games in front of others last yr or he should have stayed in the team with the performances he put up. lol.
Of course it has.
The playing list you posted just highlighted what a strong position we are in.
Wasn't deflecting but agreeing with you.

Of course he earned them as he was picked by better judges than you and me!
However, I was mainly talking about going forward.
 

Grrr

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I had this debate when we got Prestia. Miles inside game was on a par or not far behind Dions over the previous three seasons 2014,2015, 2016.
His c/p and clearance work at least statistically was very good and he averaged over 4 tackles a game, along with getting plenty of the pill with around 23 disposals a game.

If that is not good enough for people or doesnt balance out the lack of pace then how does Ellis fare.
People dont want Miles in the team because of his pace and a percieved inability to run and spread away from a contest particularly chasing a quicker opponent.
Well how the hell is Ellis going to fare in this as well.

This imo is where the coaches come into it. Lots of teams have slow inside players just like Miles most arent as effective inside as him.The coaches have structures in place that cover for them that allows them to just get on and do what they do best and thats compete at the coal face.

Im not sure how people can want Ellis in the team and not Miles if it is about inside play. your going to strike the same problems on the outside yet one is elite or bordering on it when it comes to inside work.

To me you treat each player the same performance, along with strength and weakness and the role they are expected to perform.
And most agree with you, Ellis has to work his way into the side, if he can. Miles is obviously behind others as well. It may be that they are giving him a run early to see what he can do and give him some confidence, also it is a practice match. He may have had a great off season on the track and may be in good form. He may be getting a run because Prestia isn't. His form was good in the last part and the finals in the VFL so he may be improving.
 

Goldust

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There's that balanced objectivity I've come to admire from you. You can bag a kid yet to play a full season at AFL but heaven forbid anyone criticise a player you're a fanboy of. If 2017 taught us anything it's that players who were once walk up starts in the 22 aren't necessarily still that heading into 2018. Younger and/or better players are waiting/taking their positions.
And what I admire from you is reality (a long forgotten trait on here). As you say anyone can emerge from the pack ... that's coupled with the fact some will inevitably go backwards (which no one here can concede). But anyone can emerge (at risk of upsetting the whingers ... even #10 proved that ... never been close to the heights he got to in the last three games last season and was putrid in three previous finals. Won't hold my breath but would love a repeat).
Change is inevitable and despite being tarred as the most negative guy on here, I see big gains this year from Bolton, Menadue, Stengle, Garthwaite and Lloyd and hoping so with Miles and Moore.
 

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JAKLAUGHING

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And what I admire from you is reality (a long forgotten trait on here). As you say anyone can emerge from the pack ... that's coupled with the fact some will inevitably go backwards (which no one here can concede). But anyone can emerge (at risk of upsetting the whingers ... even #10 proved that ... never been close to the heights he got to in the last three games last season and was putrid in three previous finals. Won't hold my breath but would love a repeat).
Change is inevitable and despite being tarred as the most negative guy on here, I see big gains this year from Bolton, Menadue, Stengle, Garthwaite and Lloyd and hoping so with Miles and Moore.
Agree...
 

RunningBounce

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CONTEXT??? Deledio's first six games canme in a Tigers team which lost three times by over 100 points and never got closer than 79 points.
He at least got his hands on the ball and contributed.
CEllis walked into a very good team
How about Rance's first couple of seasons? JR8? Going back a few years, Ottens?

Give the kid time. Or are you wanting to see him fail?

At this point, you're not even offering an argument. Your just starting fights. With everyone.

Goldy, look after yourself. Coming onto BF and starting fights every single day over every single issue would wear down granite.
 

Dr Tigris

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I don't attack posters. I don't like posters who attack others, and certainly do not sit back applauding. I've had my disagreements with both you and Mopsy, but in the main have kept it civil. I've also backup you and Mopsy up on occasions if I agree with what you say.
I don't think there are two categories of posters, I think it's a bit broader than that. As I've said numerous times re CEllis, I and many others agree with a good deal with what you both have to say, not all of it, but some. I don't attack players either, I may mention their faults, but I don't go them. With Vickery I was frustrated at how he was getting games, not at the player. By and large they are all trying their guts out.
Agree, but you infer that TV was 'trying his guts out'. By the end he was trying my patience out - and I liked him!! :D Still he did us well in crossing to the Hawks and making their forward line function so well.

On Cellis I completely agree.
 

Goldust

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How about Rance's first couple of seasons? JR8? Going back a few years, Ottens?

Give the kid time. Or are you wanting to see him fail?

At this point, you're not even offering an argument. Your just starting fights. With everyone.

Goldy, look after yourself. Coming onto BF and starting fights every single day over every single issue would wear down granite.
Not starting a fight. Just suggesting CEllis has walked into a team that is superior to the shit-box Deledio walked into.
CEllis walked into a finalist from the previous year and a team that was a finalist in his debut year. And let's be honest ... he wasn't asked to do a lot and didn't do much either. He had 10 tackles in 10 games (below two a game but neither here nor there). Deledio walked into a team largely bereft of talent and coming off a spoon with the highest of expectations of lifting us (which should never have been the case). I think you'll find what he deleived was substantially more and he then he quickly got better.
Glad you mentioned Riewoldt. I have retold this story a hundred times on here (to defend the guy's leadership qualities which were ignored by the club). I saw Jack at Coburg in our twos marshalling much older forwards like Kent Kingsley and Cleve Hughes in a game before he made his senior debut and quite frankly say a future star and leader then and there. I respect your football acumen and you will know watching that sometimes a player - even early - just has that something and will make it. Ottens -was prepared to take time. Rance - raw as hell - but was confident he would get there as he had plenty of go in him at a time when we were known for our lack of resilience and mental weakness.
For the record, for a bloke who is continually painted as never positive ... I have seen that something special in Balta (in his EDFL days ... I said that's a kid who will get to the AFL).
I hop you have been reading as I have stated on about a dozen occasions, I would love to see him make it and become a player ... and now I've said it a 13th time. But f*** me, I am not going to sit here, wishing, praying, deluding myself by thinking if I say it publicly enough he’ll make it and be a star. To their credit there have been some who have readily admitted it’s all about ‘hoping’ it turns around for him. Mate, I know it grates people here that I am not the purest of optimists and blindly talk up every player and feel need to make it contest between our player and arrival player, our coach and rival coach to make me feel better and appease the masses who can’t think for themselves. It saddens me that there are people on this board (two in particular) don’t have it in them to have an original thought and their whole modus operandi is to try and bait me and disagree with me (and to rally others to do so). I have far more respect for those who disagree with me but do it for the right reasons, even if that reason is they plain disagree.
But I say this, I see nothing from CEllis that convinces me he has a long-term future, is better than any number of players who missed a game in the GF last year and was worthy of pick 32 or 43 in the draft let alone 12. Yes, I can hang my hat on that one goal against Essendon in 2015, or that one two-tackle game in 2017 at Williamstown .. but the sum total of his work is well short of where it has needed to be. Isolate some highlights from Taylor Hunt, Steve Morris, Ty Vickery … or any hack from St Kilda, Melbourne, GC etc. and they’ll all have patches, highlights …. you don’t get to the AFL without something …. But the sum total does not leave me confident.
So for a 14th time I hope he makes it, but I am no way convinced he will and we need better from him.
 

Goldust

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I really couldn't care if you agreed and would prefer you left my posts alone and put me on ignore (as you have supposedly told others that you have done).
We have nothing even remotely to discuss and I don't care for the games you play.
So if you won't put me on Ignore for my sake, think of your fellow posters and do it for them.
Thanks in advance.
 
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