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Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

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richoatthedisco said:
Another way to look at it is to say the 2010 premiership team was one of the youngest in history. Collingwood beat Hawthorn in the 2011 preliminary final. One of those sides traded away experience and went the youth path, the other added experience and has won the last three flags.
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Who did they trade out?. Shaw left for the money and was a part of the Taylor Adams trade.. Lumumba had become a nut case and got along with no one. They somehow attained Varcoe out of that mess a win/win/win scenario imo.
Beams went to Brisbane for family reasons, The return was Crisp who looks a player, nd 5 De Goey and nd 25 Daniel Nelson. Talk about turning a bad situation into a good one. They lost Wellingham to the go home factor and recieved nd 18 which became Brodie Grundy. Thomas went as a F/A compensation was ??
There was Dawes who was struggling and continues to do so. They recieved nd 20 and nd 47 for him. Fraser went to gcs as an aged and past it F/A.
Ball, L Brown, Maxwell, lockyer, Obree, Presti, Rusling, Tarrant, Johnson, all retired. The only two of note they actually delisted was Jolly and Didak both aged and past it.
Weather Malthouse stayed or not they were going to turn over a lot of that premiership team.
It took guts to say at the end of 2011, hey we wont win another flag with this list, lets rebuild without having to bottom out.
I think they have done a good job of it. Trading in one or two mature players each yr was not going to win them another flag.
I wish our club could make these sort of calls and be prepared to take a step ot two backwards to actually achieve some success.
We don't know if it will bring a flag for the pies, only a little more time will tell us that. Imo they have a better chance now of winning a flag than they did at the end of 2011.
 
Groupie_ said:
Agree, Tigers should rebuild now before it's too late
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I know your being facetious but Tigers need to identify what has not worked and VIGOROUSLY CONTINUE TO BUILD. Unlike Collingwood we are yet to reach the heights of a premiership or god forbid even win a final.
I feel sorry for you if you cant discern the difference.
 
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mopsy said:
I know your being facetious but Tigers need to identify what has not worked and VIGOROUSLY CONTINUE TO BUILD. Unlike Collingwood we are yet to reach the heights of a premiership or god forbid even win a final.
I feel sorry for you if cant discern the difference.
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Are you okay??
 
Bobby Sands said:
Are you okay??
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Im never okay with tiger supporters. Especially in the off season. Too many of us really put the blinkers on when it comes to who we must play.
If i listened to most it is only us who have improved.

The off season is a time to appraise and learn and not just from our own. Yet so many continue to dick measure i really do ask myself Why?. Are they challenged or just juveniles.

All i want is a good footy conversation without all the b/s, i think i am in the wrong place at times.
 
mopsy said:
Beams went to Brisbane for family reasons, The return was Crisp who looks a player, nd 5 De Goey and nd 25 Daniel Nelson. Talk about turning a bad situation into a good one.
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They traded 25 to North for Greenwood. Greenwood, Crisp and De Goey for Beams and pick 60 odd. Have to say, that's a massive win for the Pies. Still wish we'd gotten Greenwood ourselves somehow. Just the type we need.
 

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mopsy said:
Im never okay with tiger supporters. Especially in the off season. Too many of us really put the blinkers on when it comes to who we must play.
If i listened to most it is only us who have improved.

The off season is a time to appraise and learn and not just from our own. Yet so many continue to dick measure i really do ask myself Why?. Are they challenged or just juveniles.

All i want is a good footy conversation without all the b/s, i think i am in the wrong place at times.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is your skill in finding that discourse that lets you down.
 
mopsy said:
i think i am in the wrong place at times.
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WTF Mopsy? You and I have had reasonable discussions.

If you are not prepared to enter an open forum and have the shit beaten out of you, then WTF are you doing here?

Don't go getting soft on me, mate.
 
Take further comfort in the way you have summarized the Pies 'obvious' recruiting strategy from the past five years...
The disruption to their Coaching personnel...
And Eddie's iron fist...
I'll take comfort in...
The fact we smashed them by 91 points the last match...
We continue to grow the biggest membership...
The future is well and truly in this young Team's hands...
In more ways than one...
This great Club has done some hard moves in hard times to get us into a reasonable position to grab a Flag...or two...
The Pies under that 'astute' coach Buckley are playing 'catch up' footy...their rolling the dice...
Who ya gonna back...?!?!...
 
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mopsy said:
Im never okay with tiger supporters. Especially in the off season. Too many of us really put the blinkers on when it comes to who we must play.
If i listened to most it is only us who have improved.

The off season is a time to appraise and learn and not just from our own. Yet so many continue to dick measure i really do ask myself Why?. Are they challenged or just juveniles.

All i want is a good footy conversation without all the b/s, i think i am in the wrong place at times.
Click to expand...

I like reading your posts Mopsy mate. But at times you seem to have single view on how to succeed - draft and build based on some future vision. Which I agree with. But I also see how you do that quite differently. I look at players filling roles much more than filling positions. It is the mix of roles that are played that the coach can use. The drafting, development and coaching staff build the available roles players have. But at any point in time the players we have are set, and major change is almost always negative. Only when things are stuffed (us a few years ago, Carlton now) do you pull big changes. The mix of roles our players can play is pretty good, but we had weaknesses in run and carry and physically imposing inside mids (crash and bash - especially the oppositions best players). We have potentially fixed that this off season. All cheap and requiring improvement, but the right players for our holes. Future issues exist (ruck, small forward etc). But we fill them from now. As the team matures and the set of roles available changes what the club does should change as well. Right now we have one of the best stocked tall divisions around (especially forwards), lots of good mids and a maturing group of talent coming through into an established group of top 8 players. So what you do is focus much more on immediate problems (as above), and less on the longer term. You aim at specific holes, and you try to develop flexibility in how you can structure the roles played to a good AFL standard. That's my belief, and it seems to be what the club is following. I know you see it differently. But just because I agree with what the club is doing does not mean I am just measure myself. Things can improve. But I like the approach and reckon it could all comes good very soon.

Following on the Collingwood discussion. I reckon they have followed a poor path. They had a premiership[/top 4 team, and have rebuilt. Wrong approach IMHO. When you are thereabouts, with a youngish team, you go all out. Rebuilding might work, but could just stall. History is not full of rebuilds like the Pies working. Right now they are buying players to improve their midfield. Midfield is the most important part of the team - All good? Not good. They have old out of form KPs and young KPs. They could very easily have a great midfield, but not enough talent to have a complete set of tall roles being filled - and no ability to get mature talls in. They have bought players rather than filled roles. To me their squad looks all lop sided and more based on hope than steady logic. Cloke goes down hill, and Moore takes time they don't have a forward line whilst their midfield is great. By the time their forward line starts working their midfield is losing its edge. To win premierships you have to win the midfield, have a great forward and defensive structure and play hard tough disciplined footy. I don't see the package. Our approach is more about players filling roles. which is why we went hard at Treloar. We needed the big inside mid. They more need a tall forward. Their focus was on the best player, not the best role for their needs. My view any way.
 
Dr Tigris said:
I like reading your posts Mopsy mate. But at times you seem to have single view on how to succeed - draft and build based on some future vision. Which I agree with. But I also see how you do that quite differently. I look at players filling roles much more than filling positions. It is the mix of roles that are played that the coach can use. The drafting, development and coaching staff build the available roles players have. But at any point in time the players we have are set, and major change is almost always negative. Only when things are stuffed (us a few years ago, Carlton now) do you pull big changes. The mix of roles our players can play is pretty good, but we had weaknesses in run and carry and physically imposing inside mids (crash and bash - especially the oppositions best players). We have potentially fixed that this off season. All cheap and requiring improvement, but the right players for our holes. Future issues exist (ruck, small forward etc). But we fill them from now. As the team matures and the set of roles available changes what the club does should change as well. Right now we have one of the best stocked tall divisions around (especially forwards), lots of good mids and a maturing group of talent coming through into an established group of top 8 players. So what you do is focus much more on immediate problems (as above), and less on the longer term. You aim at specific holes, and you try to develop flexibility in how you can structure the roles played to a good AFL standard. That's my belief, and it seems to be what the club is following. I know you see it differently. But just because I agree with what the club is doing does not mean I am just measure myself. Things can improve. But I like the approach and reckon it could all comes good very soon.

Following on the Collingwood discussion. I reckon they have followed a poor path. They had a premiership[/top 4 team, and have rebuilt. Wrong approach IMHO. When you are thereabouts, with a youngish team, you go all out. Rebuilding might work, but could just stall. History is not full of rebuilds like the Pies working. Right now they are buying players to improve their midfield. Midfield is the most important part of the team - All good? Not good. They have old out of form KPs and young KPs. They could very easily have a great midfield, but not enough talent to have a complete set of tall roles being filled - and no ability to get mature talls in. They have bought players rather than filled roles. To me their squad looks all lop sided and more based on hope than steady logic. Cloke goes down hill, and Moore takes time they don't have a forward line whilst their midfield is great. By the time their forward line starts working their midfield is losing its edge. To win premierships you have to win the midfield, have a great forward and defensive structure and play hard tough disciplined footy. I don't see the package. Our approach is more about players filling roles. which is why we went hard at Treloar. We needed the big inside mid. They more need a tall forward. Their focus was on the best player, not the best role for their needs. My view any way.
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Yeah they definitely wasted a side boasting Cloke, Pendlebury, Swan, Didak, Thomas and a few others I'm forgetting, to be fair all absolute guns in their prime. Should have pushed harder but Geelong kept them down and then Hawthorn overtook them.

By 2017 we should really be seeing if it's Richmond's turn. Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we did have a bad 2016, it might be what the team needs. Yes we'd get better picks this draft too but mainly we'd have expectations taken off us, might not be a terrible thing but still would prefer us to just go all out from here.
Either way, Corey Ellis will be a big part of our side. Hope he becomes full midfield with stints forward and occasionally back flank. Super pick up, something about him says future captain.
 
RobsJourney said:
Yeah they definitely wasted a side boasting Cloke, Pendlebury, Swan, Didak, Thomas and a few others I'm forgetting, to be fair all absolute guns in their prime. Should have pushed harder but Geelong kept them down and then Hawthorn overtook them.

By 2017 we should really be seeing if it's Richmond's turn. Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we did have a bad 2016, it might be what the team needs. Yes we'd get better picks this draft too but mainly we'd have expectations taken off us, might not be a terrible thing but still would prefer us to just go all out from here.
Either way, Corey Ellis will be a big part of our side. Hope he becomes full midfield with stints forward and occasionally back flank. Super pick up, something about him says future captain.
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I actually reckon we should have a good 2016. First 6 games of 2015 were garbage. Lose that and we are 2/3 games better. Add in Yarran to improve our run and carry. TV keeps his form etc. We should be top 4. Could even go No. 1 if all goes well. But does it ever all go well for the Tigers?? We can beat anyone anywhere. But we need a lot more maturity and leadership to get over the finals thing. Give us the right run and we can do anything. We'll see. I'm glass half full. But won't be surprised if there are a few downs in 2016.

And I agree about CEllis. Get him fit and more experienced and I expect him to be a big part of tiger success.
 

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mopsy said:
I know your being facetious but Tigers need to identify what has not worked and VIGOROUSLY CONTINUE TO BUILD. Unlike Collingwood we are yet to reach the heights of a premiership or god forbid even win a final.
I feel sorry for you if you cant discern the difference.
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can i have this in english please mate

im esl
 
RobsJourney said:
By 2017 we should really be seeing if it's Richmond's turn. Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we did have a bad 2016, it might be what the team needs. Yes we'd get better picks this draft too but mainly we'd have expectations taken off us, might not be a terrible thing but still would prefer us to just go all out from here.
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:drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:o_O
 

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