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Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

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Goldust said:
I've eaten dinner with AFL footballers before too ..... and a few NBL players and state cricketers.
Great people. Not all of them are champions; not all of them amount to much at all.
But great kids!
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Good for you mate.

All I stated was good luck for the season.

Haere Ra
 
I'm starting to doubt Corey is going to make it...but that doubt has a lot to do with the negative nay sayers on here with their posts...
And to be fair Corey's output to date has not set the world on fire as well....which is also compounded by his injuries...
I'm prepared to wait and see how he goes this year..
It is frustrating for all involved...but the good news if any..the side's performance this year is not dependent on Corey's output!
I'm going to wait and see his progress this year...
 
Grrr said:
What a crock. Most people on here are just like you and state that he has mostly underachieved. A good many doubt he will make it, others think he has some tools (skill) but lacks others (pace). Some doubt his ticker, some think give him time. The only person attacking posters here is you.
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He's a young kid, with serious injury (well actually genetic - free floating foot bones!) issues. I think every one agrees he's underperformed. After that continually hammering him as the most useless thing since the last whipping boy is just silly IMHO. Then taking posters to task for disagreeing with you says more about you than other posters. And one posters genuine insight isn't particularly better than any others. I have no great insight (except my unmatched genius of course). And all I reckon is that he has a lot to offer us, but must be on the track to out of the club if he can't pull something out in 2018, and maybe 2019. Potential only gets you so far. Still, of the many players we have I reckon he has one of the higher ceilings. Not black and white, more shades of grey.

And why would you go black and white, those colours are a disgrace.
dead-magpie-on-a-post-B3XE5P.jpg
 
I re-watched Round 20 vs Hawthorn last night. (Yes, I'm re-watching the entire season, one week at a time because the time machine in my garage doesn't work. Yet.)

C. Ellis - 10 disposals (6 contested), 4 tackles, 2 goals straight, and a goal assist. Was having more impact than Miles, IMO, until he copped a elbow across the snoz from Tom Mitchell. Only 59% game time, partly as a result.

Plenty to work with there.
 

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RunningBounce said:
I re-watched Round 20 vs Hawthorn last night. (Yes, I'm re-watching the entire season, one week at a time because the time machine in my garage doesn't work. Yet.)

C. Ellis - 10 disposals (6 contested), 4 tackles, 2 goals straight, and a goal assist. Was having more impact than Miles, IMO, until he copped a elbow across the snoz from Tom Mitchell. Only 59% game time, partly as a result.

Plenty to work with there.
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Akin to Griffiths to dining out on his five-goal break out game against the Swans in 1784 .... eight(y) seasons later and 63 games ... and people are still convinced he's the second coming.
Good players string games together .. how did CEllis follow up? Deplorable v Geelong.
But Tiger fans will continue to hang their hats on fleeting glimpses and moments.
 
Grrr said:
What a crock. Most people on here are just like you and state that he has mostly underachieved. A good many doubt he will make it, others think he has some tools (skill) but lacks others (pace). Some doubt his ticker, some think give him time. The only person attacking posters here is you.
Click to expand...

I haven't attacked anyone .. I have simply stated he's been a let down.
And stated a truth that after fighting the battle on several players and being proven correct how others jump on board once they're gone.
Mate go check the hypocrisy that is the Vickery retirement thread. A player a lot defended more strongly than the coach did and once he moved clubs became the object of the majority on here to ridicule, mock, rubbish, disparage, whatever. He retires and people are again hailing him and his contribution.
But yes, have a crack at me (as you accuse me of) for being at least consistent.
 
THE_GUN said:
Personally i was surprised with the selection during the draft and believed that Weller & Duggan were the players we should have taken but Duggan was already off the board - But it was well documented that Ellis was coming to Richmond thanks to leaking of info.

So far he has been disappointing and not shown a great deal for a #12 but he is ours now and we will see how he goes in 2018 and hope he makes it, Based on the last 4 years he shouldnt get another contract but his injuries have been well documented and probably will get another year and im ok with a 1 year extension on low coin provided the coaches see what they need to see and have the confidence in them to make the correct call.

Apart from his last 5/6 games at VFL level where i did like what he showed i have not seen a great deal that make me call 'Silk' But he was very highly rated at junior level at Keilor and am happy to wait and see
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Now you know you can't go having a well balanced viewpoint like this when it comes to kids like Ellis. You're either a fully fledged fanboy or you have to write the kid off. There is no in between.
 
Goldust said:
I haven't attacked anyone .. I have simply stated he's been a let down.
And stated a truth that after fighting the battle on several players and being proven correct how others jump on board once they're gone.
Mate go check the hypocrisy that is the Vickery retirement thread. A player a lot defended more strongly than the coach did and once he moved clubs became the object of the majority on here to ridicule, mock, rubbish, disparage, whatever. He retires and people are again hailing him and his contribution.
But yes, have a crack at me (as you accuse me of) for being at least consistent.
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You may not be attacking anyone in particular but you lump posters into deluded categories for having different opinions, and then complain about being hounded when they have a crack back. Not everything is so black and white. Like this thread, most agree or partly agree with you on Ellis, he has a way to go. Blind Freddy could see Vickery, needed to go. There will always be differing opinions.
 

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Grrr said:
You may not be attacking anyone in particular but you lump posters into deluded categories for having different opinions, and then complain about being hounded when they have a crack back. Not everything is so black and white. Like this thread, most agree or partly agree with you on Ellis, he has a way to go. Blind Freddy could see Vickery, needed to go. There will always be differing opinions.
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Mate ...... and I'll be very specific. Other than two d******** who have continually hounded me on here for months at a time (and not in a way that is apparent to some, but is to many), I couldn't care if you disagree with me, agree with me, want to burn me at the stake, or kiss me ..... I am immune to most of the sentiments towards me.
My point ... don't post 'there will always be differing opinions' when you take issue with mine.
PS I am, not the only bloke on here who lumps people into groups, categories. It is generally accepted on here that there are two distinct groups operating here (and you might choose to disbelieve that, but we do). We have those who are branded, what are we .. the negative nancies???? What a joke. Then you have the rainbow and unicorn brigade whose sugar-coating of things is to be admired but f*** me, add nothing.
If it's not black and white, why are you always lumping me into categories and going to pains to point out my shortcomings and pit falls and my posting???? Mate, some of the posting attacking a certain poster on here (Mopsy) has been a f***** DISGRACE. Do you direct these type of posts (as above) to those who attack him? I bet not. You probably sit on the sidelines and applaud and likely join in.
I don't shy away from going hard and being strong in my opinions ..... and I'll continue to be derided for it. So be it. Ad when there is a positive I'll say so, but I won't post boastful, sugar-coated, fanboi nonsense to get my post count up.
If you are serious .. the next time someone attacks me (which happens), pull that poster up, but you won't. As I see through what you are trying to achieve.
 
hmm lack of size/strength and pace. The following has nothing to do with potential every kid that makes a list has potential.
Its based on his three seasons and both his good attributes and poor attributes coupled with his performances at the level.
It does sound critical but in fact it is nothing more than a running commentary of his game and where he is at compared to his team mates imo.

clubs roles for him.
while undersized they have played him as a hb
the hb pecking order would go a bit like this

Houli
Grimes
Vlastuin
Broad
McIntosh
Short
Markov
Conca

Performing this role who would not have him behind all of the above. He looks a liability in most areas for this role the one aspect he has for the role is his delivery by foot.

Obviously the other role is inside mid but lets say he can do both inside and out. his awareness should be able to buy him time to use his good footskills on the outside but his lack of pace hurts in this area. I mean to say people go crook at Miles lack of pace but at least miles inside work is very good in anyones language.
Inside a lack of size strength and aggression coupled with his inability so far to get enough ball at the level.

The players in front of him would go something like this.
Martin
Cotchin
Prestia
Miles
Graham
Caddy
Lambert
Edwards
Lloyd
Grigg
McIntosh
B Ellis
Menadue

The list does not include players who the club are looking at bringing into the midfield as part of rotations. Players whose primary role atm is not that of a mid. Blokes like Rioli, Butler and even newbie Higgins.

Personally i think all are in front of him atm and in fairness to them should be until Corey actually gets the runs on the board.As everyone says the kid has potential and ability but it is time to produce and actually earn a spot.
 
Goldust said:
Akin to Griffiths to dining out on his five-goal break out game against the Swans in 1784 .... eight(y) seasons later and 63 games ... and people are still convinced he's the second coming.
Good players string games together .. how did CEllis follow up? Deplorable v Geelong.
But Tiger fans will continue to hang their hats on fleeting glimpses and moments.
Click to expand...

Do you remember Deledio's first 6 games? Number 1 draft pick. He got six in a row. Made a total of 3 tackles in those games. Looked lost and timid.

How about premiership hero and Norm Smith Medal contender, Shane Edwards?

Good players do string games together, but often not until they get to 20-odd games.

I reckon you just like a fight and spend most of your time looking for one, these days.
 
mopsy said:
Obviously the other role is inside mid but lets say he can do both inside and out. his awareness should be able to buy him time to use his good footskills on the outside but his lack of pace hurts in this area. I mean to say people go crook at Miles lack of pace but at least miles inside work is very good in anyones language.
Inside a lack of size strength and aggression coupled with his inability so far to get enough ball at the level.

The players in front of him would go something like this.
Martin
Cotchin
Prestia
Miles
Graham
Caddy
Lambert
Edwards
Lloyd
Grigg
McIntosh
B Ellis
Menadue

Personally i think all are in front of him atm and in fairness to them should be until Corey actually gets the runs on the board.As everyone says the kid has potential and ability but it is time to produce and actually earn a spot.
Click to expand...

I've always marveled at the notion of how some players get continually tagged with having enormous upside and potential (CEllis), yet others get pigeon-holed as being done (Miles). What is it ....... he doesn't fit our game plan? yet he goes about getting 30-plus possessions, a lot of them inside, each week in the Twos. If 2017 proved anything, any player can improve. Miles can. Hampson can (but let's concede he won't). At the end of the day, if CEllis can finish third and sixth in a Richmond b&f we'll have a player. But some will continue to rubbish the guy who's done it.
 

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RunningBounce said:
Do you remember Deledio's first 6 games? Number 1 draft pick. He got six in a row. Made a total of 3 tackles in those games. Looked lost and timid.

How about premiership hero and Norm Smith Medal contender, Shane Edwards?

Good players do string games together, but often not until they get to 20-odd games.

I reckon you just like a fight and spend most of your time looking for one, these days.
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CONTEXT??? Deledio's first six games canme in a Tigers team which lost three times by over 100 points and never got closer than 79 points.
He at least got his hands on the ball and contributed.
CEllis walked into a very good team
 
mopsy said:
hmm lack of size/strength and pace. The following has nothing to do with potential every kid that makes a list has potential.
Its based on his three seasons and both his good attributes and poor attributes coupled with his performances at the level.
It does sound critical but in fact it is nothing more than a running commentary of his game and where he is at compared to his team mates imo.

clubs roles for him.
while undersized they have played him as a hb
the hb pecking order would go a bit like this

Houli
Grimes
Vlastuin
Broad
McIntosh
Short
Markov
Conca

Performing this role who would not have him behind all of the above. He looks a liability in most areas for this role the one aspect he has for the role is his delivery by foot.

Obviously the other role is inside mid but lets say he can do both inside and out. his awareness should be able to buy him time to use his good footskills on the outside but his lack of pace hurts in this area. I mean to say people go crook at Miles lack of pace but at least miles inside work is very good in anyones language.
Inside a lack of size strength and aggression coupled with his inability so far to get enough ball at the level.

The players in front of him would go something like this.
Martin
Cotchin
Prestia
Miles
Graham
Caddy
Lambert
Edwards
Lloyd
Grigg
McIntosh
B Ellis
Menadue

The list does not include players who the club are looking at bringing into the midfield as part of rotations. Players whose primary role atm is not that of a mid. Blokes like Rioli, Butler and even newbie Higgins.

Personally i think all are in front of him atm and in fairness to them should be until Corey actually gets the runs on the board.As everyone says the kid has potential and ability but it is time to produce and actually earn a spot.
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Wow! What a fantastic squad we've assembled.
Dimma and his coaches, the recruiting/development departments, the player retention people (yes, Dan Richardson deserves a bit of praise here) and the on field leaders.
Allied with the super strong off field position that we find ourselves in.
Plus, we are actually the reigning premiers! :eek:
Maybe we can put our inferiority complex behind us... not that we should ever forget the past.

On C Ellis, like all our list their are no "gifted" games and if he plays in the 22 then he's earned it.
No guarantees but it's not impossible.
 
Goldust said:
Mate ...... and I'll be very specific. Other than two d******** who have continually hounded me on here for months at a time (and not in a way that is apparent to some, but is to many), I couldn't care if you disagree with me, agree with me, want to burn me at the stake, or kiss me ..... I am immune to most of the sentiments towards me.
My point ... don't post 'there will always be differing opinions' when you take issue with mine.
PS I am, not the only bloke on here who lumps people into groups, categories. It is generally accepted on here that there are two distinct groups operating here (and you might choose to disbelieve that, but we do). We have those who are branded, what are we .. the negative nancies???? What a joke. Then you have the rainbow and unicorn brigade whose sugar-coating of things is to be admired but f*** me, add nothing.
If it's not black and white, why are you always lumping me into categories and going to pains to point out my shortcomings and pit falls and my posting???? Mate, some of the posting attacking a certain poster on here (Mopsy) has been a f***** DISGRACE. Do you direct these type of posts (as above) to those who attack him? I bet not. You probably sit on the sidelines and applaud and likely join in.
I don't shy away from going hard and being strong in my opinions ..... and I'll continue to be derided for it. So be it. Ad when there is a positive I'll say so, but I won't post boastful, sugar-coated, fanboi nonsense to get my post count up.
If you are serious .. the next time someone attacks me (which happens), pull that poster up, but you won't. As I see through what you are trying to achieve.
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I don't attack posters. I don't like posters who attack others, and certainly do not sit back applauding. I've had my disagreements with both you and Mopsy, but in the main have kept it civil. I've also backup you and Mopsy up on occasions if I agree with what you say.
I don't think there are two categories of posters, I think it's a bit broader than that. As I've said numerous times re CEllis, I and many others agree with a good deal with what you both have to say, not all of it, but some. I don't attack players either, I may mention their faults, but I don't go them. With Vickery I was frustrated at how he was getting games, not at the player. By and large they are all trying their guts out.
 
Grrr said:
I don't attack posters. I don't like posters who attack others, and certainly do not sit back applauding. I've had my disagreements with both you and Mopsy, but in the main have kept it civil. I've also backup you and Mopsy up on occasions if I agree with what you say.
I don't think there are two categories of posters, I think it's a bit broader than that. As I've said numerous times re CEllis, I and many others agree with a good deal with what you both have to say, not all of it, but some. I don't attack players either, I may mention their faults, but I don't go them. With Vickery I was frustrated at how he was getting games, not at the player. By and large they are all trying their guts out.
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There are maybe a few other categories of posters, including those (not you) who will base any argument to oppose other posters. Politician-like ... I oppose Goldy because he's the other side :p
And then there is the comedy brigade who are as funny as terrorism with their unamusing anecdotes from the peanut gallery, keeping themselves entertained.
I shall keep it civil, Grrr.
 
Goldust said:
I've always marveled at the notion of how some players get continually tagged with having enormous upside and potential (CEllis), yet others get pigeon-holed as being done (Miles). What is it ....... he doesn't fit our game plan? yet he goes about getting 30-plus possessions, a lot of them inside, each week in the Twos. If 2017 proved anything, any player can improve. Miles can. Hampson can (but let's concede he won't). At the end of the day, if CEllis can finish third and sixth in a Richmond b&f we'll have a player. But some will continue to rubbish the guy who's done it.
Click to expand...
I had this debate when we got Prestia. Miles inside game was on a par or not far behind Dions over the previous three seasons 2014,2015, 2016.
His c/p and clearance work at least statistically was very good and he averaged over 4 tackles a game, along with getting plenty of the pill with around 23 disposals a game.

If that is not good enough for people or doesnt balance out the lack of pace then how does Ellis fare.
People dont want Miles in the team because of his pace and a percieved inability to run and spread away from a contest particularly chasing a quicker opponent.
Well how the hell is Ellis going to fare in this as well.

This imo is where the coaches come into it. Lots of teams have slow inside players just like Miles most arent as effective inside as him.The coaches have structures in place that cover for them that allows them to just get on and do what they do best and thats compete at the coal face.

Im not sure how people can want Ellis in the team and not Miles if it is about inside play. your going to strike the same problems on the outside yet one is elite or bordering on it when it comes to inside work.

To me you treat each player the same performance, along with strength and weakness and the role they are expected to perform.
 

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