Past #36: Phoenix Spicer - drafted w/ #42 in 2020 ND - delisted end '23 - 12 NM games / 2 NM goals

[Jasemon]

Until you called him a fraud everything you said was reasonable.

Yeah you're right I regret that part and would like to take it back. He's not a fraud. Awful thing to say.
If you'll accept my apology I'd like to think I was just a very emotional supporter trying to cool down after attending yet another humiliating loss.
My wife asked me why some guy I didn't know had called me a prick and I did actually say to her, well I probably deserved it.

 

[King Corey]

Yeah you're right I regret that part and would like to take it back. He's not a fraud. Awful thing to say.
If you'll accept my apology I'd like to think I was just a very emotional supporter trying to cool down after attending yet another humiliating loss.
My wife asked me why some guy I didn't know had called me a prick and I did actually say to her, well I probably deserved it.

Class mate. If everyone was honest here we all say plenty that we'd reverse if given the choice.

 

[Flawed Genius]

This is harsh, and I don’t blame Phoenix as he doesn’t select himself

But right now he is worst footballer I’ve ever seen put on the North jumper.

Can I interest you in one (1) Taylor Hine

 

[Psicosis]

Wtf goes through some peoples heads. He's young, raw & was dropped (only played due to COVID outs). Get the f*** over it.

 

[Event Horizon]

A little addendum.

Larkey's 1st 2 games - absolutely useless.

Scott Welsh

Scott Welsh

Age

45

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.9

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

2.6

1star

K

2.2

1star

HB

0.4

1star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.2

3star

G

0.2

3star

's 1st 2 games - negative statistics IIRC.

Phoenix is an instinctive type of player trying to learn AFL structure in a side bereft of cohesion and confidence. His output should be viewed with many caveats.

I remember Scott Welsh taking a hanger in the forward line after coming off the bench in his first game - IIRC


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[outwecome2play]

Can't believe how brutal some of the posters have been on here this year in regards to our young players.

 

[Devington]

Got angry the first couple of times he didn't beeline the ball or seriously pressure, but subsequent times I just felt sad. Not sure I have ever seen someone be so consistently adverse to contact. I have a soft spot for players who take their development seriously, and it was plain to see he put on a lot of bulk and muscle over the preseason, so hopefully he finds a way to apply the same attitude to this. Simple fact is that if he can't then he's goneski.

It was also bizarre to see him targeted so much in the forward 50. I suspect that speaks for just how disconnected the midfield and forward line were yesterday.

 

[ferball]

Yeah you're right I regret that part and would like to take it back. He's not a fraud. Awful thing to say.
If you'll accept my apology I'd like to think I was just a very emotional supporter trying to cool down after attending yet another humiliating loss.
My wife asked me why some guy I didn't know had called me a prick and I did actually say to her, well I probably deserved it.

We all get emotional, its all good.

Not everyone has the honestly and self awareness you just showed.

 

[zoomba23]

This is harsh, and I don’t blame Phoenix as he doesn’t select himself

But right now he is worst footballer I’ve ever seen put on the North jumper.

There was a moment in the second quarter where he retrieved a wayward handball from a teammate during a counter attack, baulked through a couple of tacklers, slid a nice handball through to another teammate, and we got a scoring chance out of it. He pulled a similar move during the Collingwood game. I'm sorry but we have several players who wouldn't be capable of doing that. Calling him the worst North player you've ever seen is absolutely taking the ******* piss. There's an argument to be made for him being the least physically ready player to ever pull on the jumper. But worst? Give me a ******* break. There is talent there

 

[King Corey]

I remember Scott Welsh taking a hanger in the forward line after coming off the bench in his first game - IIRC


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Nah Welsh played 1 game 1996 - and ended up with 1 FA I think, 1 game 1997 - 1 stat or something like that.

It was 1998 he took a hanger in the season opener then started looking like the gun he'd become.

 

[Ischenko]

I've been through phases of opinion about Phoenix - in his first year of VFL, I didn't know why he was drafted given he rarely touched it, and then when he did, he torched it, leaving me to wonder why on earth he got a contract extension. This year, his contest work at VFL level was much, much improved, as was his disposal efficiency. He's shown some glimpses at AFL, but without being abusive about it, the way he skirts a contest without making a physical contribution is simply not to the standard - say what you like about Mahony, he puts his head over the ball. Unless Phoenix is prepared to go when it's his turn, he won't get past next year.

Yep. I sympathise with those who are angry with him tbh, I’ve largely checked out for the year but he just will not go for the ball - even when he’s a chance to win a loose one with minimal contact he pulls up short or skirts the pack. Should be dropped from the vfl for doing that. Surely any decent country or suburban side wouldn’t tolerate it either?

 

[Augustine]

This is a pretty brutal assessment. I think he’s frightened.

I don’t think he’s soft I think He’s frightened to take possession of the ball. It’s gonna take some very good coaching to change that mentality.

 

[Junk yard]

Not sure what people see with phoenix, has shown absolutely nothing. Take off the rose coloured glasses people, another piece of atrocious list management. Wouldn't get a game in the VFL if he wasn't on our list.

 

[r_boy]

I mean, I don’t know if I’d go as far as to say his game against Richmond was “good”…

Exactly. 6 disposals, 2 tackles, no scores no score involvement no goal assist.

His game was really no different at all.

 

[r_boy]

This is a pretty brutal assessment. I think he’s frightened.

I don’t think he’s soft I think He’s frightened to take possession of the ball. It’s gonna take some very good coaching to change that mentality.

I agree it's not a softness issue it's more about confidence to feel he belongs and desire to assert himself on the play.

If you're not chomping at the bit to involve yourself and be proactive on the field, that will be hard to change.

 

[Jasemon]

Exactly. 6 disposals, 2 tackles, no scores no score involvement no goal assist.

His game was really no different at all.

I remember at least one goal assist when he handballed to Stepho. I'm sure he had at least another.
Not disputing your assessment, just those stats.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

I was 10 pints down last night

He isn’t the worst footballer to ever play for us. That’s too far on a young kid, he just simply isn’t ready to play at the level

Anyway I’m off to watch David Bourkes only game for us to give me a reality check

 

[perplexed]

What a load of garbage the last few pages have been.

Here is why he was recruited:



He is a line-breaking wingman/half-back who loves a tackle. We need a couple of good ones of these. But rather than develop him there we have tried to turn him into a crumbing forward. And despite this zany experiment not working in the twos we give him senior games just to prove it.

 

[Themanbun]

What a load of garbage the last few pages have been.

Here is why he was recruited:



He is a line-breaking wingman/half-back who loves a tackle. We need a couple of good ones of these. But rather than develop him there we have tried to turn him into a crumbing forward. And despite this zany experiment not working in the twos we give him senior games just to prove it.

Mate the first half of that vid is a montage of manic tackle pressure. A trait that suits very well to small forward.

 

[Uneik]

This is a pretty brutal assessment. I think he’s frightened.

I don’t think he’s soft I think He’s frightened to take possession of the ball. It’s gonna take some very good coaching to change that mentality.

If he was a coaching partner as assistant for North, then the best person we believe would be Denis Pagan in relation to young issues....'and' for all the current players.

 

[perplexed]

Mate the first half of that vid is a montage of manic tackle pressure. A trait that suits very well to small forward.

That suits every position. Phoenix has no idea how to play in front of the ball. Why are we ignoring his biggest strengths and trying to turn him into a crumbing / defensive forward?

We got sliced to bits by Nick Hind on the weekend. He is a limited player but he is played in the only position that suits his skills and he is thriving. This is how we should be trying to use Phoenix.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This is a pretty brutal assessment. I think he’s frightened.

I don’t think he’s soft I think He’s frightened to take possession of the ball. It’s gonna take some very good coaching to change that mentality.

I think he’s very aware of how small he is relative to other players.

Didn’t help he was a marking target at least twice yesterday.


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[Event Horizon]

Nah Welsh played 1 game 1996 - and ended up with 1 FA I think, 1 game 1997 - 1 stat or something like that.

It was 1998 he took a hanger in the season opener then started looking like the gun he'd become.

You might be right. But in those days young players would spend 80% of their first few games on the bench. The same happened to Boomer in last round of 1996 and Pickett in 1997

Spicer spent a lot of minutes on the ground, and already had the experience of the relatively ok Richmond game and below average Hawthorn game. (not to mention his debut last season)

 

[The acurate one]

Not sure what people see with phoenix, has shown absolutely nothing. Take off the rose coloured glasses people, another piece of atrocious list management. Wouldn't get a game in the VFL if he wasn't on our list.

Well a good question, he has shown he has elite pace, well at training anyways and some smarts. Has good skills and good evasion techniques. Boomer is a fan fwiw.

Now against the Tigers he was ok, no one is suggesting his efforts were acceptable the last two weeks. Needs to spend 20 odd games at VFL level.

He was a third rounder from memory and one of the very few on our list ( pick 30 plus) that I can see reasoning behind his drafting.

His job should be at the feet of hopefully Comben/Larkey. Don't need him up the ground flying for marks or trying to take down someone twice his size. It isn't his gig.

He seems to be pretty good at chasing, so hopefully he can bring perceived pressure on opposition backmen.
Time as they say will tell.

 

[The Dingrel]

There was a moment in the second quarter where he retrieved a wayward handball from a teammate during a counter attack, baulked through a couple of tacklers, slid a nice handball through to another teammate, and we got a scoring chance out of it. He pulled a similar move during the Collingwood game. I'm sorry but we have several players who wouldn't be capable of doing that. Calling him the worst North player you've ever seen is absolutely taking the ******* piss. There's an argument to be made for him being the least physically ready player to ever pull on the jumper. But worst? Give me a ******* break. There is talent there

yeah people need to go look at the closing few minutes of the richmond game. He's young, raw, been injured and count his games played on one hand. He's quick and harasses like a lunatic. Contracted for next year anyway, lets see what he can do with an injury free run, another preseason under his belt and a new coach.