Moved Thread #7: Jack Ziebell [Part I] © -

[Mav]

I don't understand this attitude.

This is the Big Footy attitude I love.

If he was put into a midfield with smarter set-ups and a better mix of player types, I expect you'd see a completely different player.

Kangas player: in a decent midfield he'd be All Australian.

Opposition player: He's s**t, he's just got good players around him!

 

[Orange Peanut]

Kangaspurs is an outstanding poster. I disagree with most of what he's saying about Jack, but respect that he is willing to put forward a contrary view, with reasonable arguments attached. Not symptomatic of Bad Big Footy at all IMO.

 

[Moti]

With Jack, like the rest of our mids it seems, they are just not dangerous or threatening. The meat grinder looked ok when hardness was an advantage but most mids are just as if not harder, cleaner and more athletic.

We could leave out Ziebell, Cunners and Swallow round 1 and not be massively disadvantaged.

 

[giantroo]

Just found this old one re Jack:

We spoke with North Melbourne recruiting manager Bryce Lewis to gather his thoughts on the 2008 NAB AFL Draft.

Draft summary
"When Cameron Joyce (North Melbourne talent manager) came to the club he put forward an analysis of our list and the midfield was an area we needed to address. Coming in, our philosophy was best player with those needs in mind. We’re pretty happy with how our draft panned out."
Player comments

Selection No. 9 – Jack Ziebell
Murray Bushrangers, VIC, Midfielder, February 28, 1991, 188.4cm, 86.3kg

"We rated Jack highly and were pleased he was still available at our first pick. He is a good midfield prospect and had a good state carnival.
"He balanced his time between Caulfield Grammar and the Murray Bushrangers. Caulfield’s season finished well before Murray’s so I think he was training in Division 3 amateurs. We think he’ll become an AFL player.
"All the way through we were in a position where we weren’t sure what was going to come through to us so we had to make sure we had the players ranked in order and go from there."

 

[Moti]

Just found this old one re Jack:

We spoke with North Melbourne recruiting manager Bryce Lewis to gather his thoughts on the 2008 NAB AFL Draft.

Draft summary
"When Cameron Joyce (North Melbourne talent manager) came to the club he put forward an analysis of our list and the midfield was an area we needed to address. Coming in, our philosophy was best player with those needs in mind. We’re pretty happy with how our draft panned out."
Player comments

Selection No. 9 – Jack Ziebell
Murray Bushrangers, VIC, Midfielder, February 28, 1991, 188.4cm, 86.3kg

"We rated Jack highly and were pleased he was still available at our first pick. He is a good midfield prospect and had a good state carnival.
"He balanced his time between Caulfield Grammar and the Murray Bushrangers. Caulfield’s season finished well before Murray’s so I think he was training in Division 3 amateurs. We think he’ll become an AFL player.
"All the way through we were in a position where we weren’t sure what was going to come through to us so we had to make sure we had the players ranked in order and go from there."

Don't get too excited!

 

[Prefectionist]

Only players from that year that I would rather have is Hannebery and Sloane, not that either of those guys were taken near the top 10.

 

[kangaspurs]

Kangaspurs is an outstanding poster. I disagree with most of what he's saying about Jack, but respect that he is willing to put forward a contrary view, with reasonable arguments attached. Not symptomatic of Bad Big Footy at all IMO.

Thanks, OP! I really appreciate that coming from an excellent poster such as yourself.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Only players from that year that I would rather have is Hannebery and Sloane, not that either of those guys were taken near the top 10.

Beams went 31 too I think.

 

[FastLife]

Alot of luck involved in draft picks.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Is it me or has many a great poster lost the plot with their postings today>>is it because Footscray won the flag yesterday??

Jesus its gonna be a long summer.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Is it me or has many a great poster lost the plot with their postings today>>is it because Footscray won the flag yesterday??

Jesus its gonna be a long summer.

It's the worst time of year. No trading yet, no drafting yet, frustrations of a disappointing end to the season lingering and multiplied when seeing the premiers expose our deficiencies with the way they went on and won the thing. Little to no actual player news other than player delistings and subsequent whinges or Instagram pics from Barcelona, Prague and The Vic House Orthopaedic Ward.

Jack will be Captain next season and IMO will do a bloody good job.

 

[kangaspurs]

Now I've thought about it a bit more, I think 'anything but a massive disappointment' is excessively harsh and wrong.

There are plenty of reasons to be proud that a person the quality of Ziebell will lead our club and, as I've said before, he does some good things and I love everything for which he stands.

I maintain though that relative to expectations and his natural talent he has underperformed across the course of his career and he does have obvious deficiencies that need work. In short, I think he should be doing more and should be better. I think we can all agree that we hope to see Ziebell dominate next season.

 

[RobZombie]

Be careful. Any criticism of Jack (as a C grade, maybe B minus midfelder) is not allowed. Bit like Gibbo, untouchable players on here despite obviously not being good enough.

Gee the pendulum has swung all the way over on JZ around here. He's in a pretty select group for combination of clearances and metres gained. From http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/2...second-straight-high-stakes-off-season-looms/ :

He's better than a B/C grader. Yes, he could do with improving his DE%, and would like to see him up his possession numbers more consistently, but he's about the only midfielder we have with any penetration on his kicking and gets more than his share of contested ball. His biggest problem is the (lack of) players he has around him to complement his particular attributes.

This whole "hack it forward" myth has outgrown reality by a fair bit.

(BTW, Swallow's position on that graph is much more upsetting than JZ's).

 

[Kimbo]

Swallow's position on that graph is much more upsetting than JZ's.

Graphical representation of the distance just short of a jam jar.

 

[Prefectionist]

Beams went 31 too I think.

Personally rate Jack higher, think Beams is only good in a good team and hasn't done much at Brissy (some injury issues too i guess)

 

[Moti]

Personally rate Jack higher, think Beams is only good in a good team and hasn't done much at Brissy (some injury issues too i guess)

Beams is twice the mid Jack is.

 

[ViperR1]

Gee the pendulum has swung all the way over on JZ around here. He's in a pretty select group for combination of clearances and metres gained. From http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/2...second-straight-high-stakes-off-season-looms/ :

He's better than a B/C grader. Yes, he could do with improving his DE%, and would like to see him up his possession numbers more consistently, but he's about the only midfielder we have with any penetration on his kicking and gets more than his share of contested ball. His biggest problem is the (lack of) players he has around him to complement his particular attributes.

This whole "hack it forward" myth has outgrown reality by a fair bit.

(BTW, Swallow's position on that graph is much more upsetting than JZ's).

I am sure he is up there for metres gained, but how he goes about it is a fair way off the better players in the comp. There is little class and setting up of other players in obtaining those meters.

His bombing is still a problem even though you suggest it isn't, as is his tank and going to ground far too readily at the contest. Yes his lack of support/quality around him does impact his game I agree. At the worst he is a very handy player

In any case there is no doubt about his commitment/courage, so far that reason alone he is a likable player. With regard to Swallow he has declined rapidly, lucky to be in the team at end of year - hoping for a much improved 2017.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Gee the pendulum has swung all the way over on JZ around here. He's in a pretty select group for combination of clearances and metres gained. From http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/2...second-straight-high-stakes-off-season-looms/ :

He's better than a B/C grader. Yes, he could do with improving his DE%, and would like to see him up his possession numbers more consistently, but he's about the only midfielder we have with any penetration on his kicking and gets more than his share of contested ball. His biggest problem is the (lack of) players he has around him to complement his particular attributes.

This whole "hack it forward" myth has outgrown reality by a fair bit.

(BTW, Swallow's position on that graph is much more upsetting than JZ's).

This is exactly what Dangerfield does and everyone sucks his ballsack.

Get ball. Run. Kick as far as he can.

 

[Ischenko]

Gee the pendulum has swung all the way over on JZ around here. He's in a pretty select group for combination of clearances and metres gained. From http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/2...second-straight-high-stakes-off-season-looms/ :

He's better than a B/C grader. Yes, he could do with improving his DE%, and would like to see him up his possession numbers more consistently, but he's about the only midfielder we have with any penetration on his kicking and gets more than his share of contested ball. His biggest problem is the (lack of) players he has around him to complement his particular attributes.

This whole "hack it forward" myth has outgrown reality by a fair bit.

(BTW, Swallow's position on that graph is much more upsetting than JZ's).

Wow that's a fantastic graph, great work with stats as always from RZ. Really shows how much you can miss in the heat of the moment/at the game. On the Ziebell tip I can kinda feel the validity of both sides in this argument, but all the evidence we do have surely suggests that he will step up (further) once he is captain. Unequivocally a player for big moments, and not really his fault he couldn't put his stamp on more of those this year.

 

[shintemaster]

This is exactly what Dangerfield does and everyone sucks his ballsack.

Get ball. Run. Kick as far as he can.

Dangerfield has more pace and explosiveness which sees him hit that 10-15m of running first though and then deliver in a (relatively ) straight line towards the forward line. JZ tends to get caught having to dispose around the body. Maybe if his teammates did the same blocking that he does for them he'd be able to run in a straighter line, just saying. Agree though, if Ziebell had more natural speed he'd be the same type of player. Clearly Ziebell is about a 10 x better set shot though (not that hard I guess...)

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Dangerfield has more pace and explosiveness which sees him hit that 10-15m of running first though and then deliver in a (relatively ) straight line towards the forward line. JZ tends to get caught having to dispose around the body. Maybe if his teammates did the same blocking that he does for them he'd be able to run in a straighter line, just saying. Agree though, if Ziebell had more natural speed he'd be the same type of player. Clearly Ziebell is about a 10 x better set shot though (not that hard I guess...)

Yeah, he's got that great burst of speed to get himself clear.

But, the continual repetition of the 'only hacks it forward myth' has reached biblical proportions.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Danger also has one of the best tanks in the league, but there isn't a huge deal of subtlety about his game.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Get some speed around Jack and he won't feel compelled to hack it forward every time he gets it.

 

[shintemaster]

Yeah, he's got that great burst of speed to get himself clear.

But, the continual repetition of the 'only hacks it forward myth' has reached biblical proportions.

100% agree. It's not as bad as made out... and like I said, maybe his teammates should structure up to his advantage at times. JZ does a massive amount of work in the middle making space for others (carving it at times) but I don't see this come back his way from them too often. Part of that is intentional sure, you find space for your "outside" players but IMHO JZ is probably the best straight disposal kick in our mid starting team (given a bit of space), don't know why we wouldn't try and use that strength more.

Danger also has one of the best tanks in the league, but there isn't a huge deal of subtlety about his game.

He'd be almost the polar opposite of a guy like Wells or Rioli. All brute strength, explosiveness and straight lines.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Jack hacks it too often from packs, but he has no option. It's a once paced midfield not creating spread options.

When Jack gets the ball around the ground, he's one of the best kicks in the team.