A Hawthorn induced problem

[cleomenes]

The AFL is heading for trouble with its acceptance of the calculated thuggery that Hawthorn has brought to the code from Rugby League. Hawthorn players clearly train to deliver tackles that injure. The method has been with them for a while, but is now bedded in. The kind of thing I mean is the deliberate topple onto Franklin by Lake in last year's final. lake knew that the mark was 10 m out in the square, so there was no effective penalty available to the umpire.The repeated throwing of players to the ground in tackles is the dangerous one.
Rugby League administrators know they have a problem with this (clubs there are actually used pro wrestlers to coach players in damaging tackles), and they are looking for a solution. In our code, we have not admitted there is a problem yet. As long as commentators of TV pretend there is nothing wrong with thuggery, nothing will change.
We all saw Vince's treatment of Dangerfield. Commentary basically said "suck it up". It is dangerous, and against the rules. The much repeated vision of Dangerfield recovering from a heavy, marginally OK tackle and having his head jammed into the ground as he was getting up illustrates this. The action was either designed to injure, and therefore reportable or a deliberate attempt to prevent a player from getting to the ball which was far away. It was also a push in the back. None of this is OK.
Umpires need to be instructed to enforce the rules on these activities. So what if it interrupts the flow of the game.
Umpires need to be given some flexibility to apply extraordinary penalties for extreme acts of thuggery. Perhaps second shots at goal for goal square acts, or a sin bin system or sending off for really deliberate and dangerous acts. The Afl acted after the Yartes/Brereton hit in the grand final, because TV replays made it clear that what had happened was planned and deliberate. They need to do so again before we have a quadraplegic or dead player from one of these tackles.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Pushing your opponent's head into the ground as you get up is as old as the Ming dynasty.

 

[DinoSoar]

Yes, the good, old Hawthorn "unsociable" football that is kind of chuckled at and brushed off just because it is Hawthorn. Any other team though ....

Very dangerous tackling that locks up a player's arms whilst throwing him into the turf and unable to protect himself should be treated harshly in order to stamp it out of the game. It's only a matter of time before serious injury eventuates. That tackle on Bartel in round 1 that left him concussed and unable to play in round 2 is not where we want our game to go.

 

[Apex36]

I found it interesting how quickly Vince's tagging job on Danger was brushed aside, yet it was far more brutal than anything Caff dished out to Cotchin last year, which spawned weeks of debate on tagging tactics...

Clearly the heavy handed tackling that Hawthorn does would be stamped out quickly if the Pies adopted it.

 

[DWil6]

I'm not sure it's as bad as is being made out. And I certainly don't think injuring opposition players is a major part in their success. Indeed they had probably the second most injuries to us last year and still won the flag.
They are hard at the man and the ball but I think every team should be that way inclined if they are legitimate premiership contenders.


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[Pendles!]

I found it interesting how quickly Vince's tagging job on Danger was brushed aside, yet it was far more brutal than anything Caff dished out to Cotchin last year, which spawned weeks of debate on tagging tactics...

Clearly the heavy handed tackling that Hawthorn does would be stamped out quickly if the Pies adopted it.

Everyone feels sorry for Melbourne, that's why..

 

[cleomenes]

Pushing your opponent's head into the ground as you get up is as old as the Ming dynasty.

This is true, but the ferocity of this particular one was well over the top. I chose it as an illustration of how everything about it was against the rules, and the rules need to be applied. This kind of act is not as dangerous as the throwing to the ground, but it was a recent and obvious action that the media put down to tough tagging, and makes it clear that a problem exists that is being ignored. It is the coaching to injure that I am targeting here.

 

[76woodenspooners]

... yet it was far more brutal than anything Caff dished out to Cotchin last year, ...

How about what 'Caff dished out to Ablett?

Caff pinned a player's arm back and buryed him in the turf ... put the best player in the comp out for the rest of the season.

Clearly the heavy handed tackling that Hawthorn does would be stamped out quickly if the Pies adopted it.

IIRC Collingwood also have had a wrestling coach.

 

[Heater39]

I found it interesting how quickly Vince's tagging job on Danger was brushed aside, yet it was far more brutal than anything Caff dished out to Cotchin last year, which spawned weeks of debate on tagging tactics...

Clearly the heavy handed tackling that Hawthorn does would be stamped out quickly if the Pies adopted it.

What a load of crap. Nice victim mentality you've got.

 

[Alexander323bc]

I raised this about 5 years ago when people started pinning the hand while everyone was oh great tackle! You should not be able to hold a player below the elbow when tackling! This should solve all problems.

 

[Ricky90]

The only problem I've got with Hawthorn is Rioli's chicken wing tackles.

 

[dmoore30]

This is a load of crap. Nothing wrong with these tackles and if a player gets hurt then so be it. It's football not tennis, suck it up and stop being sucked into this over the top safety bs. If you want AFL to be enjoyable for many more years to come then don't cry about its brutality. As far as I'm concerned no one has died or become disabled from a tackle in 150 years and footy is 10 times softer than it was in the 80's. The current day media is turning the world and Australia soft. If you think a player intentionally means to hurt someone or means to injure them then you're joking. If you want a player to tackle someone but make sure they don't get their arms or below a certain point then tackling would become non-existent or you'll be seeing 100 free kicks a game and no tackles. Rant over, stop being soft as butter.

 

[Apex36]

What a load of crap. Nice victim mentality you've got.

If you say so mate. I guess the sub rule and interchange restrictions weren't borne from the high midfield rotation strategy the Pies used to get a flag either.

How about what 'Caff dished out to Ablett?

Caff pinned a player's arm back and buryed him in the turf ... put the best player in the comp out for the rest of the season.

Caff wrapped both arms around Ablett's body, he never grabbed his arm directly, and his arm wasn't pinned, he had both arms free when he hit the ground, even managed a handball before he hit the turf. Watch the vision again, it was a fair tackle, just unlucky.

 

[Quicky]

Am I missing something? I thought it was a free if you sling a player in the tackle? If I'm not mistaken. If so it is an umpire enforcement issue.

 

[Black_White]

If you say so mate. I guess the sub rule and interchange restrictions weren't borne from the high midfield rotation strategy the Pies used to get a flag either.

Caff wrapped both arms around Ablett's body, he never grabbed his arm directly, and his arm wasn't pinned, he had both arms free when he hit the ground, even managed a handball before he hit the turf. Watch the vision again, it was a fair tackle, just unlucky.

Nothing wrong with that tackle.
And if it wasn't on the best player in the last 2,000 years then it wouldn't have even been reported by the media.

 

[Black_White]

I must admit that reading the thread title I thought this was all about today's reports that Clinton Young was resuming in the VFL.

 

[Black Prince]

This is a load of crap. Nothing wrong with these tackles and if a player gets hurt then so be it. It's football not tennis, suck it up and stop being sucked into this over the top safety bs. If you want AFL to be enjoyable for many more years to come then don't cry about its brutality. As far as I'm concerned no one has died or become disabled from a tackle in 150 years and footy is 10 times softer than it was in the 80's. The current day media is turning the world and Australia soft. If you think a player intentionally means to hurt someone or means to injure them then you're joking. If you want a player to tackle someone but make sure they don't get their arms or below a certain point then tackling would become non-existent or you'll be seeing 100 free kicks a game and no tackles. Rant over, stop being soft as butter.

Totally agree and a simple tactic we should deploy .Would love to see the boys add that hard ferocious tackle to their pressure game . Let's get some of the Melbourne Storm boys back to the club. There is much to learn from the Hawks they tactically just keep on reinventing.

 

[Gene Simmons]

If you look at the last 10-15 yrs.. Teams that have won 3 flags each, Brisbane, Cats & Hawks all have 1 thing in common... They were all physically imposing.. Coincidence?

 

[ZEV]

If you look at the last 10-15 yrs.. Teams that have won 3 flags each, Brisbane, Cats & Hawks all have 1 thing in common... They were all physically imposing.. Coincidence?

Melbourne draft jack watts at 1, can't win more than three games a season...

 

[legendstatus]

The only problem I've got with Hawthorn is Rioli's chicken wing tackles.

That's one of many, the continual sniping of Lewis, Mitchell & especially Hodge gets swept under the media carpet because of their so called love for these types of players, you can add a few more to this list, unfortunately whist winners are grinners, this will always be the case.


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[The Magnificent Seven]

Pushing your opponent's head into the ground as you get up is as old as the Ming dynasty.

The Art of War

 

[Seedsfan]

You tackle to hurt

 

[ppoiter]

You tackle to hurt

Exactly. If anything dangerous is creeping in then its up to the AFL to take action. Cant blame Hawthorn

 

[Gunstall555]

Yes, the good, old Hawthorn "unsociable" football that is kind of chuckled at and brushed off just because it is Hawthorn. Any other team though ....

Very dangerous tackling that locks up a player's arms whilst throwing him into the turf and unable to protect himself should be treated harshly in order to stamp it out of the game. It's only a matter of time before serious injury eventuates. That tackle on Bartel in round 1 that left him concussed and unable to play in round 2 is not where we want our game to go.

Apologies for the intrusion guys - first of all congrats on todays win very impressive in very challenging conditions.

How do you police the Taylor Duryea tackle on Bartel though? If it is late in the game and scores are close and Bartel gets his arms free and gets a handball off and it leads to a goal everyone would be talking about the ineffective tackle that Duryea laid. I don't want to see players concussed more than anyone else, but this isn't the freaking opera or ballet. As long as the player isn't slung into the ground, then sometimes we have to accept that shit just happens.

Tell me this, who didn't enjoy seeing those Swans players getting smashed in the GF? Yeah a couple of cheap shots by Lake and one by Spangher were over the top, but the hits by Roughy, Hale and Breust all on Hanners were a thing of beauty.

 

[mightynineteen]

Interesting that the main example given is Vince, thread title should be – a Melbourne induced problem.