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GuruJane

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The following link is a translation of a Syrian TV show shown as a kind of Happy Ramadan light entertainment for the masses. It's sort of Neighbours Arab style.

Now of course there is always the possibility that it is nothing but a filthy zionist lie.

But when you get to the site, Lestat, you will be able to follow the link and download a video of the scenes and then provide us with an accurate translation? I am assuming you do speak Arabic, if not may someone else can help.

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD62303

Enjoy.
 

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Jane; your fixation with Lestat is becoming embarassing.

As you are obviously a person of advancing years can I suggest the following;

- Get a job (if not too late).
- Get a hobby; basket weaving, macrame, line dancing. Anything.

The net is not the be all and end all.
 
Highlighting instances of anti-semitism in the Arab media is a worthy task, as it is a serious problem. However it is only a worthy task if it is working towards getting rid of anti-semitism. MEMRI doesn't seem to be doing that, instead it stokes the fires of hatred that rage inside people like GJ.
 
Originally posted by Jim Boy
Highlighting instances of anti-semitism in the Arab media is a worthy task, as it is a serious problem. However it is only a worthy task if it is working towards getting rid of anti-semitism. MEMRI doesn't seem to be doing that, instead it stokes the fires of hatred that rage inside people like GJ.
Click to expand...

Ah. at last a serious comment about a serious situation?

Is the way to get rid of anti semitism by concealing it's manifestations.

Jokes and polemics aside, this "drama" was shown on Arab TV. It is not an isolated incidence by any means as can be seen in the Guardian story ....where a Saudi newspaper was peddling the same blood libel. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was shown on Egyptian TV last year. Bashir Assad of Syria made a speech in front of the Pope saying the jews killed christ. The Pope said nothing. Prime Minister Mahatir recently on the jews ruling the world. The EU Union has recently tried to suppress its own report on the new rise of anti semtisim - why? Because the conclusions were that the anti semitic attacks were being made by Muslims.

Memri is no doubt a jewish organisation. But who else is going to expose the rampant judeophobia in the Arab media but the jews?

No-one else seems to want to go to bat for them?
 
Originally posted by GuruJane
Memri is no doubt a jewish organisation. But who else is going to expose the rampant judeophobia in the Arab media but the jews?
Click to expand...

They do nothing to stop judeophobia, bigotism doesn't come from a belief that your fellow person is equal but just different, it comes from a belief that they aren't equal. If MEMRI want to work against judeophobia then they should be exposing judeophobia to those who need 'enlightening', instead of just giving grist to the mill for those who seek to divide the middle east.
 
Originally posted by Jim Boy
They do nothing to stop judeophobia, bigotism doesn't come from a belief that your fellow person is equal but just different, it comes from a belief that they aren't equal. If MEMRI want to work against judeophobia then they should be exposing judeophobia to those who need 'enlightening', instead of just giving grist to the mill for those who seek to divide the middle east.
Click to expand...

I don't get it. Who needs the enlightening?
 
Originally posted by Jim Boy
They do nothing to stop judeophobia, bigotism doesn't come from a belief that your fellow person is equal but just different, it comes from a belief that they aren't equal. If MEMRI want to work against judeophobia then they should be exposing judeophobia to those who need 'enlightening', instead of just giving grist to the mill for those who seek to divide the middle east.
Click to expand...

My instincts agree with you, Jim Boy, but the experience of recent years has radicalised my opinion.

I've heard mainstream Israelis dismiss MEMRI and the Anti Defamation League as right wing institutions that do more harm than good in representing the Israeli state.

Since 911 that opinion has lessened - not because MEMRI and the ADL have changed, but because mainstream Israeli's have become as vilified as their regime. I've seen an anti-war Israeli, who fully supports unconditional withdrawal from the occupied territories, abused simply because he (like almost all Israeli's) served in the IDF and refused to apologise for it.

Surely we need look no further than this thread to see how skewed this topic has become - GuruJane posted a link to a tv program aired in Syria and asked Lestat, or any other arabic speaker, to translate.

LennyCarl's immediate response was to point out MEMRI'S bias. No attempt to learn what exactly had been aired on Syrian TV (even though GJ specifically left that to arabic speakers to translate).

Now, LennyCarl felt aggrieved at GJ's implication that his/her response indicated a virulent anti-semitism - but what other rational analysis can explain LennyCarl's instinctive reaction?

Surely an "objective" response would have been a link to an Israeli media example of similar unfettered hate; or a debunking of the reality of the TV program itself (which was GJ's original offer to Lestat!)???

What other motive explains the automatic denial of virulent judeophobia based solely on the fact that the accusation comes from a "Jewish" source???

That everybody's favourite bitch, Dippers Donuts, weighed in with his usual "I need to be acknowledged by GuruJane or Hawkforce to justify my meaningless existence" is to be expected. As is his inability to differentiate "Jew" from "Israeli" - surely the only reason for his choice to ignore blatant race hate while cheapshotting GJ (unless of course he believes all Jews should be portrayed like that?).

But the most damning evidence of how the Pseudoleft has chosen to sacrifice the Jews as a sop to Islamofascism actually comes from the one respondent in this thread who actually knows how widespread and virulent hate of jews is taught in the Mideast.

You.

The likes of LennyCarl and DD are simply ignorant, selfblinding, blowhards - if not actually anti-semitic, their ignorance leads them to judgements that can be described in no other way in effect.

Whereas YOU know how virulent hate is subsidised and taught throughout the entire Arab world - and, increasingly, the entire muslim world.

Not just hate of Israel - which could be endured as anti-colonialism - but hate of JEWS (the widespread teaching that the protocols of the Elders of Zion are genuine etc...) in general.

You and I disagree on many many things - but, I think, we agree on some fundamentals. I think one of them is absolute intolerance of institutionalised, culturally imprinted, racist hate.

In that context, your observation sabout MEMRI are spot on.

But the context of this thread is not MEMRI, is it? The context was about popular Arab TV's depiction of Jews.

Yet somehow we have ended up talking about MEMRI, while no one (apart from yourself, briefly), has addressed the blatant, unapologetic, vitriolic racism that is endemic not just in Syrian TV but throughout the Arab and Muslim world.



Does anyone imagine that similar sentiments are allowed on Israeli TV?

Of course not - the likes of LennyCarl and DD won't even view the bloody link! Should they do so they might have to face the fact that were popular Arab/Muslim media to be placed in an Australian context, it would be like watching "Rabbit Proof Fence" -

except that it's not just Kenneth Branagh and the hated English who should be killed - ALL Australians/English should be killed, everywhere!

I know you don't like GuruJane, and I know I'm a complete a-hole, but surely you can see that being Jewish has become synonymous with being Israeli thses days - and it's bloody dangerous?!
 
Surely an "objective" response would have been a link to an Israeli media example of similar unfettered hate; or a debunking of the reality of the TV program itself (which was GJ's original offer to Lestat!)???
Click to expand...

You serious? Don't you watch any Hollywood movies??

If not....you can read about examples of 'unfettered hate' towards arabs and muslims here , here and here.

Or hows this sound Hawk...does this fit your criteria of Israeli media promoting unfettered hate.

Once again Jane shows here hypocricy and double standards.

No doubt that their is anti-jewish content in the arab media...which Jane has so enjoyed revealing.

But how bout the anti-arab movies released by hollywood. Anti-arab shows in Israel. Totally missed them hey.

So Jane...try not to be such a hypocrite. When the Israeli and Hollywood stops airing anti-arab and anti-Islamic movies and shows...then perhaps you can complain about the arab media.



PS....Jane...its rather difficult for an arab to be anti-semetic. You do realise that arabs are semetic don't you??
 

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Originally posted by Lestat
You serious? Don't you watch any Hollywood movies??

If not....you can read about examples of 'unfettered hate' towards arabs and muslims here , here and here.

Or hows this sound Hawk...does this fit your criteria of Israeli media promoting unfettered hate.

Once again Jane shows here hypocricy and double standards.

No doubt that their is anti-jewish content in the arab media...which Jane has so enjoyed revealing.

But how bout the anti-arab movies released by hollywood. Anti-arab shows in Israel. Totally missed them hey.

So Jane...try not to be such a hypocrite. When the Israeli and Hollywood stops airing anti-arab and anti-Islamic movies and shows...then perhaps you can complain about the arab media.



PS....Jane...its rather difficult for an arab to be anti-semetic. You do realise that arabs are semetic don't you??
Click to expand...

JimBoy - I can't think of any better proof of my point than this response...

Lestat doesn't even bother to address GuruJane's original request for an Arabic translation, so I think we can assume that MEMRI'S summation was pretty well accurate (thankyou LennyCarl!).

Ignores the question of racial hate propoganda against Jews in the mideast...

And cleverly focuses on my suggestion that Syria's "blood libel of jews" be compared with jewish use of media to promote racial hate in Hollywood.

This thread is becoming sick.

What other response is there to the original link other than revulsion?

It's an attack against jews NOT against Israel!

Can't you see that?


Does it matter?
 
but surely you can see that being Jewish has become synonymous with being Israeli thses days - and it's bloody dangerous?!
Click to expand...

Yes, I think this is bad news for jews in general. It's hardly some guy in Caulfield's fault if the IDF are a bunch of vicious bastards.

Now, LennyCarl felt aggrieved at GJ's implication that his/her response indicated a virulent anti-semitism - but what other rational analysis can explain LennyCarl's instinctive reaction?
Click to expand...

Umm, my reaction was to post a link which argues that these MEMRI guys go out of their way to give a distorted picture of arab opinion in general, by emphasizing the very worst examples they can find. I agree that this example listed byGJ is quite terrible, ... the article I posted actually mentioned how this is an example of the ignorance and backwardness that does exist in the arab world.

I'm sure that decades worth of sophisticated Hollywood villification of arabs has had a more powerful and misleading influence than has this type of Syrian racist guff.
 
jane/hawk

if you want an answer i will give you one, regardless of the fact that MEMRI has about as much love for the muslim world as ariel sharon.

But first, you want an answer, you give me one.
I posted this a while ago, but nobody replied, now you want lestat to reply?

you want hate speech, explain why being the champions of peace and justice that you are, you never brouth this up, or why you never justified any of it, have fun :)


And David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) wrote: " If I were
an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal;
we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how
could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been
Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?
They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why
would they accept that?" (Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif
"The Jewish Paradox", pp. 121-122).



"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle."
Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces (New York Times, 14 April 1983)


"I am a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank could describe events in South Africa."
Archbishop Desmond Tutu, during Christmas visit to Jerusalem, December 25, 1989 (Ha'aretz; cited in Palestine Perspectives, January/February 1990)


"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves--that is only half the truth. . . the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict, which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves."--David Ben-Gurion (1938)


Genetic research that shows Jewish and Palestinians are close relatives is suppressed, ripped out of scholarly journals, because it violates biblical and political doctrine. <http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,605798,00.html>

"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism, no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off."
-- Yesha'ayahu Ben-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without A People" 1997, p.98)




"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism."

-- Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister (p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987).


"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel.... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours ... When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do will be to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle."
-- Israeli Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan (Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 4/13/83, NYTimes 4/14/83)



"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
--Rabbi Ya'acov Perin in his eulogy at the funeral of mass murderer Dr. Baruch Goldstein


"In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get out! If they don't agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force."

--Professor Ben-Zion Dinur Israel's First Minister of Education, 1954 from History of the Haganah



" Here lies the saint, Doctor Baruch Kapal Goldstein, blessed be the memory of the righteous and holy man, may the Lord revenge his blood, who devoted his soul for the Jews, Jewish religion and Jewish land. His hands are clean and his heart is clear. He was killed as a martyr of God on the 14th of Adar, Purim, in the year 5754. "

-- Thus goes the inscription on the grave, (made as a shrine visited by pilgrims), of the mass murderer Baruch Goldstein. An American Physician and an Israeli settler of Hebron, Goldstein indiscriminately murdered 29 worshipers kneeling in a mosque in 1994.

"It's not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion."
--Ben Gurion



"The main difference between Bosnia and Palestine is that ethnic cleansing in the former took place in the form of dramatic massacres and slaughters which caught the world's attention, whereas in Palestine what is taking place is a drop-by-drop tactic in which one or two houses are demolished daily, a few acres are taken here and there every day, a few people are forced to leave"
--Edward Said (Washington Report 09/1998)



"... we have no solution, that you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wants to can leave -- and we will see where this process leads? In five years we may have 200,000 less people -- and that is a matter of enorous importance."
-- Moshe Dayan encouraging the transfer of Gaza strip refugees to Jordan (from Noam Chomsky's Deterring Democracy, 1992, p.434, quoted in Nur Masalha's A Land Without A People, 1997 p.92).



"I don't sign orders to destroy the houses of Jews, only of Arabs,"
-- Haim Miller, deputy mayor of Jerusalem and acting mayor in Olmert's absence, quoted in Yediot Aharonot, Feb. 7, 1998.





"I know how at least 80% of all the incidents with Syria started. We were sending a tractor to the demilitarized zone and we knew that the Syrians will shoot. If they did not shoot, we would instruct the tractor to go deeper, till the Syrians finally got upset and start shooting. Then we employed artillery, and later also the air-force... I did that... and Yitzhak Rabin did that, when he was there..."
-- Moshe Dayan in a 05/1997 revelation



Aggression: "The Jews again today appeared to be on the offensive, roughly two-thirds of the incidents being initiated by them and in their operations they showed evidence of planning, something absent in general from the Arab attacks."
-- The New York Times, 12/12/1947 from p. 53 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff, (1995)



"Till then everyone in Israel spoke about Arabs who had just run away in 1948, but there existed no real historical research on it. There were two conflicting propaganda versions, one Arab and another Jewish. As one who received his education in Israel, I thought I knew that the Arabs had 'run away.' But I knew nothing else. The Jewish generations of 1948, however, knew the truth and deliberately misrepresented it. They knew there were plenty of mass deportations, massacres and rapes . . . . The soldiers and the officials knew, but they suppressed what they knew and were deliberately disseminating lies."
-- Israeli Historian Benny Morris in an interview with Rami Tal published in Israeli Daily Yediot Ahronot December 1994.


"in 1948, we deliberately, and not just in the heat of the war, expelled Arabs. Also in 67 after the Six-Day War, we expelled many Arabs."
-- Tzvi Shiloah, a senior veteran of the Mapai Party and a former deputy mayor of the town of Hertzeliyah. (Modelet, no.12, October 1989)



Looting: "Indiscriminate plundering of Palestinian property by Jews [in 1948] was so common that it caused Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to confide to his diary that he was 'bitterly surprised' by the 'mass robbery' in which all parts of the population participated. [...] Tom Segev reported: 'In Haifa, Jaffa and Jerusalem there were many civilians among the looters.' Another Israeli writer, Moshe Smilanky, reported: 'Individuals, groups and communities, men, women and children, all fell on the spoils. Doors, windows, lintels, brinks, roof-tiles, floor-tiles, junk and machine parts ...' Segev commented that Smilansky 'could have also added to the list toilet bowls, sinks, faucets and light bulbs.'"
-- p.68 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff




Partition: "after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine "
-- Ben Gurion, p.22 "The Birth of Israel, 1987" Simha Flapan.



Summary "Jews came and took, by means of uprooting and expulsion, a land that was Arab. We wanted to be a colonialist occupier, and yet to come across as moral at the same time."
-- Israeli Professor ILan Pappe (from http://www.middleeast.org/1999_01_29.htm)


Ehud Barak Ha'aretz June 3rd, 1998 issue reported a revealing slip by Ehud Barak, Rabin's Labor Party successor, sharing the frustration of the Palestinians:

"If I were Palestinian, I'd also join terror group."



"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
-- David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.



"There is nothing quite like the misery one feels listening to a 35-year-old [Palestinian] man who worked fifteen years as an illegal day laborer in Israel in order to save up money to build a house for his family only to be shocked one day upon returning from work to find that the house and all that was in it had been flattened by an Israeli bulldozer. When I asked why this was done - the land, after all, was his - I was told that a paper given to him the next day by an Israeli soldier stated that he had built the structure without a license. Where else in the world are people required to have a license (always denied them) to build on their own property? Jews can build, but never Palestinians. This is apartheid." Edward Said, in "The Nation", May 4, 1998.



from the perspective of the Jews, (to be) the most important public-relations act ever committed in our favor" according to a Maariv columnist.
( refering to s11)

oh no, it cant be true, zionists are perfect, cuddly and love teddy bears and want to sing songs and hug you, its all the filty arabs fault
 
Originally posted by Hawkforce
Surely an "objective" response would have been a link to an Israeli media example of similar unfettered hate; or a debunking of the reality of the TV program itself (which was GJ's original offer to Lestat!)???
Click to expand...

This is a pretty reprehensible statement on your part. Being vilified by bigotism is no excuse whatsoever to be bigotted in return, which is what you are implying is OK.

It's pretty easy to find instances of racism in any culture. For example should Australians be thought as if Pauline Hanson was your everyday Australian? Is Australian TV full of Greg Ritchies doing Mahat Macoat routines? I hope not. But it's pretty easy for me to post these examples on foreign forums somewhere and say that they are typical of Australian culture. Any Asians reading this tripe and believing it are going to feel animosity towards Australia and Australians.

GJ is guilty of doing this. By posting the extreme example that she did as an example of the norm of Arab culture, she both simultaneously vilifies that culture and creates further animosity amongst those that that example targetted. Her challenge to Lestat was nothing more than attempt to smear that same brush on him and was not worthy of a response.

This topic may spawn a reasoned debate on the widespread anti-semitism endemic to certain cultures, especially those with a substandard education system and the topic of whether attacks on Israel imply attacks on Judaeism, but at the moment, it's already spiralling into 'sticking tongues out and calling each other names' mode.
 
I wouldn't hold my breath Ah_19.

Most likely Jane will label your post as 'drivel' and fail to answer any of your questions. You see...thats what she does when she doesn't have any answers. Forget that these quotes were made and documented.......Jane is so driven by fear of 'terrorism', she'll say anything to defend those who she believes will protect her. Rather sad....

And Hawkforce...most likely he'll label you as a 'killer of arabs and muslims'. A favorite of his when he has no come back. Expect an attack on your religon...your beliefs.

But alas....I fear Ah_19 that none of our resident right wing neo-cons (or real leftist as they are known in this day and age) will address the issues in your post.
 

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Originally posted by evo
When I read these threads it just re-enforces my theory that there is no more divisive force in the world than oraganised religion. Even football supporters seem to be able to find common ground.
Click to expand...

Its people that are divisive....religon is just a good excuse.

If their was no such thing as religon....humanity would just find something else to be divisive over.

Its human nature unfortunately....as a species we are very much tribal!
 
Originally posted by evo
When I read these threads it just re-enforces my theory that there is no more divisive force in the world than oraganised religion. Even football supporters seem to be able to find common ground.
Click to expand...
Amen to that. Religeon is too often used as an excuse to justify the hatred of the small minded. Through this, these people can then justify their actions dealing with this hatred as being in line with their religeous belief.
 
Originally posted by Lestat
You serious? Don't you watch any Hollywood movies??

No doubt that their is anti-jewish content in the arab media...which Jane has so enjoyed revealing.
Click to expand...


"Anti jewish "content" - is that how you describe these scenes depicting the old blood libel screened on Arab TV?

I was rather hoping you would be able to refute the translation.

But how bout the anti-arab movies released by hollywood. Anti-arab shows in Israel. Totally missed them hey.
Click to expand...


Seen plenty of movies where Russians, Nth Korean. whatever "villians" were depicted. Not that many Arabs, actually. I suspect Holywood is too scared of being dive bombed. The actors were the first to stop lying after 9/11.

So Jane...try not to be such a hypocrite. When the Israeli and Hollywood stops airing anti-arab and anti-Islamic movies and shows...then perhaps you can complain about the arab media.
Click to expand...


Certainly have never seen movies where Arabs have been depicted as murdering christian children for their blood for Ramadan? Have you? But I guess this is just a jewish custom? Is it Lestat? Where do you stand on this?

PS....Jane...its rather difficult for an arab to be anti-semetic. You do realise that arabs are semetic don't you??
Click to expand...

But just as judeophobic as the Europeans are, wouldn't you agree?

I take it that the Memri translation is accurate, since you haven't denied it.
 
GJ, the play you posted is horrible and utterly reprehensible, but I must say that you too stunned me a few weeks ago when you wrote to Lestat,

"Now I realise you are nothing but stereotypical treacherous arab of vile Egyptian extraction whose Word cannot be taken at face value as evidenced by your public confession that you sought to trick me by not appending a Rolleyes to your apology."

Good Lord, does that kind of stuff still fly in Australia? Quite amazing really, or maybe not (sadly)... :(
 
Originally posted by lenny&carl
I agree that this example listed byGJ is quite terrible, ... the article I posted actually mentioned how this is an example of the ignorance and backwardness that does exist in the arab world.
Click to expand...


L&C - by excusing this state sponsored racism as "ignorance and backwardness" in the "Arab world" you are consigning a whole race of people to perpetual third world status.
Have you no idea of what a great civilisation the Arab/Islamists had for many centuries? And no, it wasn't destroyed by western imperialism - it was destroyed by a beneficent Ottoman Empire which ensured the Islam wld be forever backward looking.
So advances in western technology were eschewed (except in military) and their education system was virtually abandoned. So when the modern world hit them in the wake of WW1 all they had was tribalism to fall back on. That is the problem we deal with today. This is the tragedy of Arab IslaM.

I'm sure that decades worth of sophisticated Hollywood villification of arabs has had a more powerful and misleading influence than has this type of Syrian racist guff.
Click to expand...

If the Arabs accepted Israel as a jewish state there would not have been a problem.

But they don't. Why not? Because this "type of Syrian racist guff" as you put it, has been existing ever since the jews sought political self determination in a tiny part of their small land.

Not that this "Syrian racist guff" comes out of nowhere. It comes out of the centuries long European tradition.

Why do people hate, fear and loathe the jews so much?
Perhaps that's a topic for another thread.
 
Originally posted by Jim Boy
GJ is guilty of doing this. By posting the extreme example that she did as an example of the norm of Arab culture,
Click to expand...


That series was shown on Syrian State TV. It was not an extreme example. It was the norm. Just look into what Palestine, Egyptian and Saudi Arabian media peddles. And remember they are state controlled.

Syrian leader Bashir Assad alleged that the jew were responsible for the killing of Jesus in front of the Pope. The Pope did nothing to deny it.

How can you deny or dimiss this? Or do you just don't want to know
 

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