A simple question.........

[SanMan75]

Are we better now than we were this time last year?

Even without Jamo, Hendo, Hammer and Laidler i am a member of the affirmative camp. This being the case (i dont expect all to agree) surely the cfc is still heading in the right direction in the big picture????

 

[thylacine60]

yes and no...

I've heard of playing along the boundary but 9 posts in 8 years...

 

[Omega Blue]

its interesting we win enough games last year that would usually be a top 4 contender, ppl say were jokes because we didn't beat any of the top 4. this year we beat collingwood twice but don't win enough games and were still a joke.

 

[FootyGeek]

Should have been top 4 this year.

We have the cattle. Need a new rancher.

 

[The Coach]

It is great to hear from you Unc
Because of Jamo and Hendo missing down back I have to say no. I think our backline still looked a little suss even on Saturday - understandably so (not that many would agree with me)

 

[The Coach]

Should have been top 4 this year.

We have the cattle. Need a new rancher.

I am wavering on that and cannot see how Saturday's victory makes that an option anymore (would split membership) - you have to concede that half the herd have been in a spelling paddock under veterinary care for much of the year

 

[I bleed Blue]

Should have been top 4 this year.

We have the cattle. We need to keep them on the paddock.

EFA

 

[SanMan75]

Should have been top 4 this year.

We have the cattle. Need a new rancher.

Agree with the top 4 comment but a developing side.... i think we all agree we are still devoloping, and still developing our "depth" i cant help but think that this injury plagued season may have done us more good (long term) than harm. FFS let our rancher do his thing.

BTW Thy yes mate 8 long years of reading your witty and occasionally thought provoking comments

 

[OldBlueFan]

I've been thinking about something today and this thread seems as good a place to put it as any.

I reckon that our midfield has definitely improved. Why? Because the extended absence of Murphy and then Judd forced the club to play Carrots as more of an attacking midfielder than simply a stopper. Given his disposal weakness, they seem to have transferred the purely stopping roles to Curnow and have relied on Carrot's tendency to be able to stop an opponent by collecting a fair bit of the ball himself. I also think this is ultimately why Ellard hasn't been getting a game. He's too small to be relied upon as a stopper.

Naturally, the emergence of Brock has also helped in the middle.

But as far as the OP question ...

You'd have to say that we've improved defensively, given the absence of Laidler and then Henderson and yet still maintaining a reasonably impressive defensive effort in the back half of the season. Add those two and Jamo back into that backline and there aren't too many forward lines that would be insurmountable.

Up forward, Casboult has been a revelation and the missing piece of the puzzle. Provided they send him to an intensive "learn to kick the ball properly" camp over the break, then our forward line starts to take on some aerial potency, the only thing it previously lacked (despite Walker's obligatory one hanger per month) and due in most part to Waite's repeated absences.

So, all-in-all, IMO yes, we are better placed going into 2013 than we were going into 2012.

 

[gbatman]

No.

 

[JustaBattler]

All the senior players are emphatically behind Ratts - they have consistently demonstrated 100% faith and loyalty to Ratten at every opportunity...

This wekk they fought back - not only smashing Essendon which was the game that started it all back in round 4 - but also hitting the media big time- Waite this morning, Yaran in post match interview for xample - Judd's body language and joke with Ratss about watching SBS in future..that was a not so subtle GOGF all of you so called 'Sports Journalists' Ratts was very aggressive and so was Judd's body language...

If the Board asks the playing group - and if they have any weight or importance at ..I'd say Ratts is 100% safe.

Oh and the answer to your question ? I reckon we are (now) better as a team than we were last year - results are just statistics..and even they are moving our way in a very fast clip..last year we had no new depth proven in clutch games - McIness/Bell/White/Watson/...these guys have a real long term future the way hey are playing - Casboult - he has been praised big time...these are all success stories that matter...

Just my view based on the facts - however if you read above - apparently Ratts has issues with people who aren't players in there - who knows?

For mine Ratts has developed a better team and list and has got us within touching distance of an improbable top8 finish...against enormous adversity..yeah there is more steel in his eyes these days - and I think yesterday's performance showed the players have it too..

Carlton was bumping and blocking and making eery tackle stick yesterday - nd most were genuine body on body 1% ers...

Youd' have to be blind Freddy not to see that the team played with serious hardness yesterday - if they keep this up - we will smash the Saints

 

[gardiner stand]

yes because we have firepower up fwd with a mix of talls and smalls and juddy on fresh legs and a coach that has taken 5 years to realise that gibbs is more useful in the middle,mugs to the backline

 

[Dramoth]

I think that yesterday was the turning point for this team... yesterday, the playing group made a conscious decision to play hard at the man and the ball football and I think that they woke up to the fact that they can mix it up with other clubs in the physical stuff and still run them off the park.

Gibbs imposing himself (admittedly it was only StHeppel) I think made him realise that he can step up and go hard.

So, in that respect and after the last 5 weeks, the team has grown and is much better now than it was last year. The whole attitude thing.

 

[The_Wookie]

I think the forward line we have on the park is damn near perfect for our needs. Casboult has been the missing ingredient and I hope he stays in the side.
Midfield wise, bell adds some much needed steel, and mclean adds some much needed grunt.
We're well and truly covered for Ruckmen.

Where we fall down for the moment is defensively, but with Jamison, Henderson and Laidler to come back in there, that will take care of itself. a good run without the injuries from this year, and 2013 will be the year.

 

[BluesBagger]

It's a tough question.

On one hand we have obviously performed worse than last year in terms of win/loss. Yes we coped a lot of injuries but we all know that was not the only reason for our losses (often by big margins).

On the other hand we have unearthed a bunch of new players both in the depth department (it's very bitter-sweet that Ellard/Collins especially aren't getting game, Ellard really deserves a spot after the last VFL game but that's for another thread) and in the structural department with youngins like Levi/White/McInnes being able to play vital roles. McLean has been outstanding. And so in some ways we are better situated going into next year than we were coming into this one.

Also another important thing is I believe Ratten has improved as a coach throughout the year, this includes his failures this year (realising 3 rucks is a bad idea).

I think what has been and is really important is our last few weeks and our final 2 week to come. The last few have overall been great, going 3-4 without the skipper and flogging the bombers without Judd starring are huge positives.

BUT we need to finish of the year strong with our final two games regardless of if we can make finals or not. We must destroy GC, lets not kid ourselves we believe our list is good enough to contend for a flag and GC are a second year team reaching the end of the season with 19 injuires. If we can't blow them out I'll be very disappointed. And we need to beat the saints convincingly, I don't care if going into the game we know we can't make finals.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

All the senior players are emphatically behind Ratts - they have consistently demonstrated 100% faith and loyalty to Ratten at every opportunity...

Are you talking about when questioned publicly?

I have never heard of any player in any team not 100% backing their coach publicly under any circumstances.

Even Melbourne's leadership group were 100% behind Dean Bailey until the day he was gone.

I'm not saying that there is any private disloyalty from our group, but I wouldn't take 'public support' as being evidence of anything in particular...

On the whole, I think the facts are:

- Ratts has stepped up significantly in the last month.

- A rational assessment of our list and our 2012 season is that when virtually all the cattle are on the field we are top 6 material, when they are not, our coaching dept do not have the structures in place to keep create top 10 performances.

Hawthorn and Collingwood are teams that have structures that transcend medium sized injury lists. The last month has showed some evidence that that Carlton may be getting closer to this too.

 

[pepalenko]

Based on the last month, yes.

 

[JustaBattler]

Are you talking about when questioned publicly? .

Yes.

 

[serenityNow]

Yes and no.

Short memories people, glad the club will review the season as a WHOLE at years end and not just the last month we're we've mostly beaten out of form sides and sides below us.

 

[pepalenko]

Moving Hyde on was necessary, as the players playing in the lower levels were just lost.
How that was to allowed to happen is something that must be looked at come years end.
We have to be more serious about the development of our players and not allow them to just run around without purpose.
It's no coincidence that the players playing VFL are showing more in recent weeks.

This has been too noticeable to ignore. It can't be a pure coincidence that NB performances have turned around. I know next to nothing about Hyde and posters like The Coach vouch for his credentials, so maybe it was more about the time being spent with them more then what he did. A case of quantity more than quality.

 

[Jabba73]

Hyde may have struggled as his starting players were all in and out of the seniors due to our long injury list and the draw provided by the AFL was conterproductive to getting players match fit. Maybe some of what happened was completely beyond his control. Also, if the rumours were true that senior players were allowed to go through the motions in the NB side knowing they were safe for a recall to the seniors, this would absolutely undermine both the message given by the NB coach and the gameplan he was trying to implement.

I have been happy with the improvement from the NB however, to give all credit to a change in coach is to discount significant contributing factors.

In answer to the OP, if we are judging better by how well placed we are heading into the next season, then yes we are. If we are judging better by how well we are placed for a tilt at the flag in the current season, then no we are not.

There is plenty of good that has come out of this year, not least the form of the younger players that have been allowed into the senior side earlier than expected due to injuries. It has also given some clarity to the future of other players who have been around for a while with less than the expected output and impact on games.

We have seen what we are capable of with a full team (and what we lack without it) so we are well placed to finish off the year on a good note and head into next season full of confidence.

 

[Jabba73]

Maybe, but it was painful to watch live.
Went to the Geelong vs Carlton match at Visy and the difference in structures was glaringly obvious.

I doubt that the CFC spent the pre-season beating up on one another, just to have us float around at VFL level. Possible, but somewhat unlikely.
There was only several players that would regularly put in and most of those weren't even on our list.

Anyway all that has to be looked at and reviewed at seasons end. Whichever way something definitely went awry through the half-way point of the year.

No doubt Harks. I remember back to when we were discussing the senior side picked versus a side of unavailable players and there was general puzzlement about who would win if they played each other.

It will be good to have the whole club reviewed as there are always areas for improvement. Normally winning games papers over any cracks when you are close to challenging for a flag, so the extended form slump we had in the middle of the year really exposed some flaws in our club. This will be good for our long term outlook if we have the determination to deal with them effectively.

It is purely guesswork but it would not surprise me if a couple of players were sent back to the NB to get a run into their legs due to lack of options for senior selection. It is not fair on the NB, but in reality the NB exist to prepare players for the senior side. It would appear to an outsider they were cruising through a game but that may have been the exact instructions given to them and the NB coaching staff. I could see how this would impact on a coach that has pride in his work and likes to teach players the right way to go about it, and may have been a contributing factor to his decision to leave the job. I don't know Hyde so this is purely an observation by someone looking from the outside in.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Very hard to tell given the injuries we've had this year.

We've had a few good finds this year though, I think Bootsma early on showed promising signs, defintely a goer despite having a very light frame. We also saw that Watson has improved and did very well when he had to cover for Henderson. Casboult has really added a new element to our forward line, just hope he keeps improving and continues having an impact. There's Tom Bell who I think is really valuable, adds a lot of grunt and Andy Mac has also been really impressive.

Having said that, I think there are those of our best 22 that have had a better year this year than last. I think Betts, Carrazzo, Hampson, McLean, Henderson, Yarran (because he's having an influence more often on games), Armfield and maybe throw Robinson in there too.

Those that have gone backwards in terms of the impact they're having include Judd, Gibbs, Duigan, Walker, Garlett, Simpson, Touhy & Jamison.

The rest are all having an even year when comparing this year to last imo.

The worrying sign for me though, was the lack of intensity in so many matches and the lack of spirit shown. First game against Essendon, yeah we had 4 injuries in the first qtr, but the intensity wasn't there we could all see that. Saints was pretty much the same thing minus the 4 injuries, we only really showed our pressure tackling late in the 3rd qtr rest of the game felt like they were coasting. Then the games against the Crows, Hawks, Kangas and Power where they just gave up and put no effort in were very disappointing. The other 3 losses imo were respectable.

But the blessing in disguise was I think the playing group has learnt that nothing's ever going to be handed to them and if they want to win a flag then they have to bring it every single time. We have been very competitive this past 5 weeks despite having so many best 22 out and we've been winning against the odds and that is a very good sign moving forward.

Also, year isn't over yet, best case, if we can sneak into the finals and play the Eagles first up, I think we can beat them up there, then we could end up facing either Collingwood or Adelaide and I'd fancy our chances against those pretenders and could end up sneaking into a prelim final. Best case is if that's against Sydney and anything can happen, but they are also a team that we can beat.

 

[Jabba73]

Can't argue with that as I watched Yarran walk around the park, collecting no more than a dozen possessions yet he was elevated the next week.
There are times when you don't want your better players throwing themselves around after coming back from injury.
No argument there, but there have been others that dodged anything resembling a contest and are still doing so but it has got much better in recent weeks and the results are there to prove it.

Ellard, McLean, Tuohy, Curnow and O'Keeffe are really the only players that leave nothing behind when playing in the VFL and there may just be a very good reason why all five will still be on our list whilst others won't be next year.
I know this sounds crazy but at times I had hoped that Ratten himself had have been coaching the VFL team also, just to keep the message consistent.

It is also why these guys are fan favourites and integral parts of the club. There are other players on our list with more talent and ability but don't apply themselves with the same effort and that is why it takes all sorts to make an AFL list.

Does Ratts get to NB games and speak to the players?

 

[Jabba73]

Ratten gets to as many VFL games as possible and apparently he did strip Hyde of the stats sheet at one game. (That must have gone down well)

Lance Romance (I'm pretty sure, but stand to be corrected) also offered up that Ratten was instructing Lucas from over the fence, to head to one end of the field and Lucas just headed off to the opposite side.
I trust Lance and believe this to have occurred. Now whether it was in Ratten's powers to be able to do what he did is for another discussion, but I just don't think that would have gone down too well with Ratten.

Thanks Harks, it is hard enough for me to get to AFL games so I have absolutely no idea about what happens at NB games except from what I pick up on during (the limited) televised games. Glad to hear the coach spends time watching the next batch of senior players rather than relying on reports from someone else.

Add whether the senior coach is able to make decisions at NB games to the list for review. It is always an interesting discussion as to who is really in charge of the reserves team.