Toast A Step In The Right Direction

[Markfs]

Then why do only indigenous leaders get a say on when Australia Day is? Australia Day is a day for all Australians

Because the constraints of having a holiday and getting pissed under the sun limits the choices. The proper date to recognise Australia is the anniversary of federation... january 1st. However, can't do that date because it's already a holiday and we're still drunk from the night before.

 

[JB1975]

Then why do only indigenous leaders get a say on when Australia Day is?

I've noticed plenty of people having a say about Australia Day. Lot of words spoken on these forums, in media, by football clubs and sporting organisations, businesses, all talking about January 26 and the vast majority of them not Indigenous.

Australia Day is a day for all Australians

No, it isn't. That's why lots of people are talking about it.

 

[Gone Critical]

There in lies the problem in the views of many it’s not a matter of defeat or victory or sides. As a nation we need to be united in recognition of the past and celebrating the nation we’ve become. Until everyone can get past the divisive mindset of us vs them it won’t matter what date we recognise/celebrate Australia day.

Given the differing views the day needs to encapsulate both aspects.

So if the day chosen was one not of celebration but mourning for the original inhabitants of the land wouldn't a mature united nation choose a different day?

 

[Markfs]

So if the day chosen was one not of celebration but mourning for the original inhabitants of the land wouldn't a mature united nation choose a different day?

although anzac has been changed a lot into a flag waving exercise with people running around going oi oi oi, in the past it was a day for the people involved in war to remember the lives lost. I'd argue that was a mature response. I'd also argue that it could be done on jan 26th. However, we know why that can't happen.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Think it’s plenty relevant to the nation we’ve become. If it wasn’t the British on 26th Jan it would have been someone else. Possibly, but not necessarily the Dutch. Maybe different European countries settled different areas of Australia and the Australian continent would be made up of countries not states. We wouldn’t have the queen as head of state, wouldn’t be a commonwealth country, both of which may have impacted the structure of parliament and decisions of parliament. Would the white Australia policy have occurred, would indigenous rights have been better or worse, would someone else have arrived and signed a treaty? We also likely wouldn’t be an English speaking country, have different place names and state/city boundaries. Would the Aussie spirit be the same without the convicts or ANZACs? Without the English cricket would Aussie rules footy have existed/grown, similarly in the northern states would rugby be the established code. Sport seems trivial, but it’s part of the fabric o.

That’s just from a few minutes off the top of my head and I’m sure there’s a sh*t ton more what ifs and changes.

La Perouse arrived in Botany Bay at the same time phillip was trying move the first fleet out to relocate to Port Jackson. So by a matter of only days we could have been French, not English

 

[Gone Critical]

although anzac has been changed a lot into a flag waving exercise with people running around going oi oi oi, in the past it was a day for the people involved in war to remember the lives lost. I'd argue that was a mature response. I'd also argue that it could be done on jan 26th. However, we know why that can't happen.

These things change over time but when I was young, and I think that was a similar time to you, ANZAC day had fallen into a hole. The diggers were still around but old men and were almost the "boomer uncles" of the current day. The sentiment was not in favour of the armed forces , peace and anti war feelings were much stronger than today. Vietnam vets were unpopular, shunned by the nation who sent them to war.

 

[Markfs]

I find it puzzling that so many people profess a love for the current australia day. I'm sure i wouldnt surprise anyone to say that a lot of people in WA have a tenuous link to the eastern states. WA actually voted for secession from Australia sometime in the 1930s. There's even been efforts to resurrect the plan to make a break. Probably 20% of the state has been shipped in from england in the post war era and they had problems liking villages 10km down the road in their old country, let alone something 3000km away. Many would say that the only thing that unifies them with the rest of australia is a desire to get drunk.

 

[barrackers]

So if the day chosen was one not of celebration but mourning for the original inhabitants of the land wouldn't a mature united nation choose a different day?

Changing the day doesn’t change history. For mine embrace (for lack of a better word) and respect it instead of shying away from it.

Also there’s a lot of difficulty in choosing another day. Choose one that is indigenous and put some off. Choose another like Federation and it has similar British connotations. Choose any day and those who believe we shouldn’t have Australia day as mistreatment occurred on other days too wouldn’t be happy.

A change to a republic seems a logical time if a shift is to be made in the future.

In the meantime if we can’t split/adjust the meaning of Australia day perhaps another alternative is to do away with Queen’s birthday (I’d say Melb Cup or GF eve, but they’re only Vic) and replace it with an indigenous day. Maybe 13 Feb when Rudd said sorry.

 

[Markfs]

These things change over time but when I was young, and I think that was a similar time to you, ANZAC day had fallen into a hole. The diggers were still around but old men and were almost the "boomer uncles" of the current day. The sentiment was not in favour of the armed forces , peace and anti war feelings were much stronger than today. Vietnam vets were unpopular, shunned by the nation who sent them to war.

So hawke and his mates decided to reprogram us... and it was successful.... if you call oi oi oi successful.

One thing is for sure... for me at least.... changing dates is only going to allow the separate groups to get pissed separately. In fact, it will remove any dynamic that forces white australia to look closely at what happened when the fleet arrived. However, if indigenous people want that so be it. In fact, they might be realistic enough to realise that white australia is never going to be that inclusive, and just use the date change to rid themselves of the bad feelings that 26th jan brings

 

[sr36]

May 9th. Quite a few significant governance things occurred on this date over the years.
May 27th. The day 91% of white Australians voted in a referendum to finally count aboriginal people in the Australian census. (1967). Before then they weren’t actually people according to government.
July 30th. The very first Australia Day celebration. (1915)
19/29th April. Day Cook sighted Australia, day Cook landed in Botany Bay. Choose either.

Plenty of alternative days. Some benign, some with baggage.

edit Forget everyone’s favourite.
May 8th. (Maaate)

Just pull a random day out of a hat. The land, the water and the people who have lived there - surely that's what should be celebrated if you're going to have a national day. There's no historical event or date that we know of that signifies the creation of those things.

 

[jmac70]

Then why do only indigenous leaders get a say on when Australia Day is? Australia Day is a day for all Australians

I don’t believe I said that either. I said Aboriginal Elders should be consulted and part of the process.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Then why do only indigenous leaders get a say on when Australia Day is? Australia Day is a day for all Australians

Because celebrating the specific date of the arrival of the First Fleet coincides with the beginning of indigenous persecution and subjugation?

Australia Day is a day for all Australians, but that doesn't mean the 26th of January has to be it.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gabbo64]

I find it puzzling that so many people profess a love for the current australia day. I'm sure i wouldnt surprise anyone to say that a lot of people in WA have a tenuous link to the eastern states. WA actually voted for secession from Australia sometime in the 1930s. There's even been efforts to resurrect the plan to make a break. Probably 20% of the state has been shipped in from england in the post war era and they had problems liking villages 10km down the road in their old country, let alone something 3000km away. Many would say that the only thing that unifies them with the rest of australia is a desire to get drunk.

Disgraceful

 

[Gabbo64]

Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Lithuanians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the French so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Indians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Chinese so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Muslims so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Jews so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the woke left so,...feck 'em!

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Lithuanians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the French so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Indians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Chinese so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Muslims so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Jews so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the woke left so,...feck 'em!

Let's just cut out the middle man here - why is it so difficult for you to sympathise that the 26th of January is painful for indigenous Australians (who were the first people here, mind you, before whites) because it marks the beginning of their slaughter?

Is it just that you don't care?

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Markfs]

Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Lithuanians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the French so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Indians so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Chinese so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Muslims so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the Jews so,
Let's change the date...Oh no, we've upset the woke left so,...feck 'em!

let's change the date....oh no, we've upset the poms.... two birds with one stone... 10 pound tickets to send them back

 

[Gabbo64]

Let's just cut out the middle man here - why is it so difficult for you to sympathise that the 26th of January is painful for indigenous Australians (who were the first people here, mind you, before whites) because it marks the beginning of their slaughter?

Is it just that you don't care?

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Every Country in the world consists of different racial groups.

 

[Gabbo64]

let's change the date....oh no, we've upset the poms.... two birds with one stone... 10 pound tickets to send them back

Yeah, and let's send the Kiwi's back and the Italians(some of whom paid nothing to get here) and the Indians and the Greeks. Hell, why don't we all get out of here, except the Indigenous of course. No indigenous blood, no passport....out you go!!!

 

[sr36]

A day to have parties and fireworks and get drunk with friends. Obviously, winter is not a good time. The cricket used to like australia day to build a test around but that has seemed to change since the 20 over stuff. The new day does need to allow people to get outside and have bbqs and get pissed....

I saw a suggestion in late december so that it extended the christmas closedown. That seems like a good idea. Getting drunk before christmas might assist getting drunk for christmas day.

I must admit that I've always enjoyed those "islands" of public holidays during the long long periods of boring work. The easter break was always a good one which came after a post christmas period of work. Some states have holidays in May while others dont. Victorians have something for the Cup dont they, to give an opportunity to get pissed in the first week in Nov. Its really a toss up between a holiday to extend the christmas period to provide a long break to get really pissed, or provide an isolated day during the year to provide a break to get pissed. To me, that's the crunch question. The fact that the current day is based on the arrival date of a pack of unfortunate criminals forcibly expelled from their own country, does make me think that any plausible excuse for a day should be acceptable to rational people, although ironically not necessarily to a pack of drunks.

I also think there should be some form of compromise over a new date. In return, I'd like to see indigenous australians and their supporters agree to morning chants of aussie aussie aussie, oi oi oi....and this could be brought in with changes to the flag etc. Maybe the gov't could issue beer tabs to all australians so that they could attend pop up bars around the country and join with their fellow australians and get pissed.

Covid has taught us that we just need to trust and go with the experts. With that in mind, it might be best to just hand the decision over to the breweries to decide about the best time for us to get drunk.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Lot of words there, sadly this has become so divisive that day will never come.

Yeah, I felt we were closer a decade or two ago. We feel further away than ever at this stage.

 

[Gabbo64]

Let's just cut out the middle man here - why is it so difficult for you to sympathise that the 26th of January is painful for indigenous Australians (who were the first people here, mind you, before whites) because it marks the beginning of their slaughter?

Is it just that you don't care?

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why, is this not enough

• 13 February – National Apology Day. ...
• 19 March – National Close the Gap Day. ...
• 21 March – Harmony Day. ...
• 26 May ‐ National Sorry Day. ...
• 27 May – 3 June ‐ National Reconciliation Week. ...
• 3 June ‐ Mabo Day (part of National Reconciliation Week)

 

[jmac70]

Every Country in the world consists of different racial groups.

Sorry but how does that relate to changing the date for Australia Day?

 

[hellfire]

I can't see any reason for opposition to a date change other than obstinacy rooted in bigotry. Let's face it, nobody would want to 'celebrate' the anniversary of their ancestors being conquered, or the beginning of a tapestry of oppression for your people.

I have no issue with a 'national day'; most countries have them, and we have plenty to be proud of as a nation (albeit I find the excessive patriotism that some people try to display nauseating, almost America-esque, which is not a standard we should aspire to). But I can't be proud of a nation that doesn't embody 'respect' as a principal value, and ostracising our indigenous population with the aforementioned 'celebration' is fundamentally disrespectful. I can't comprehend why anybody would have any affinity for January 26th - just change the date from something that is clearly divisive (regardless of whether or not you agree with the logic of it) to something inclusive, and we can celebrate today's Australia together. It's not that bloody difficult.

 

[sr36]

Yeah, I felt we were closer a decade or two ago. We feel further away than ever at this stage.

There's a global pushback of nationalism - just got to ride that wave out before we get there.

 

[Markfs]

Yeah, and let's send the Kiwi's back and the Italians(some of whom paid nothing to get here) and the Indians and the Greeks. Hell, why don't we all get out of here, except the Indigenous of course. No indigenous blood, no passport....out you go!!!

dont forget the irish.... at least those other mobs aren't afraid of a day's work...