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Toast A Step In The Right Direction

  • Thread starter Thread starter jmac70
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No

No

Deal with it

Not sure if you are being controversial, insensitive or just plain stupid. To those of us with Aboriginal family it is highly offensive.
 
Not sure if you are being controversial, insensitive or just plain stupid. To those of us with Aboriginal family it is highly offensive.
And also to those of us that don’t have indigenous family but understand what our friends their families have gone through and continue to do so it is also highly offensive.
 

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1988 and the bicentennial was the time the hawke threw some money around to "celebrate" the first fleet. A bit of nation building. I remember going to the USA in the late 1980s and walking by houses and laughing at the flags on poles out the front of houses ...nationalism gone crazy, i thought. evidently hawke thought we needed some of it.
 
Australia Day was first celebrated in 1915.
Over the years it stopped and started and every state had a different day.
1935 it was settled as 26th of Jan.
It’s interesting that even the Nationals don’t really understand what the day represents.


For me it’s a date that causes phycological damage to the original inhabitants of this land. So it needs to be changed.
And changing a simple date to be able to inclusively celebrate the greatest country in the world shouldn’t be that hard.
Changing a day doesn’t physically hurt anyone, doesn’t cause financial or emotional distress to anyone.
It really is simple and should be done.

Problem is as I said no other dates stand out as being any more relevant or acceptable. Nobody will embrace change for changes sake. It could prove to be more divisive. So there’s a stalemate at play.
 
Can't understand why some are so set to deny invasion, it started when our most distant progenitors first picked up a femur and invented the first club and has been going on constantly ever since.
 
Problem is as I said no other dates stand out as being any more relevant or acceptable. Nobody will embrace change for changes sake. It could prove to be more divisive. So there’s a stalemate at play.
No date stands out because we only consider history from the 26th Jan 1788 onwards. We don’t consider Aboriginal history and culture.
Which is crazy given it spans 50,000 years.

The 26th Jan is really just the day Britain claimed the land when they had no right to do so. It has no relevance to the nation we have become.

Whenever Australia Day is celebrated, it should be chosen in consultation with Aboriginal Elders and should be of significance to Aboriginal people. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a date, it could be a particular day or even linked to the seasons. It could be different in each state.

Whatever happens, it should celebrate Aboriginal culture and history whilst remembering the injustice of the past.
 

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No date stands out because we only consider history from the 26th Jan 1788 onwards. We don’t consider Aboriginal history and culture.
Which is crazy given it spans 50,000 years.

The 26th Jan is really just the day Britain claimed the land when they had no right to do so. It has no relevance to the nation we have become.

Whenever Australia Day is celebrated, it should be chosen in consultation with Aboriginal Elders and should be of significance to Aboriginal people. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a date, it could be a particular day or even linked to the seasons. It could be different in each state.

Whatever happens, it should celebrate Aboriginal culture and history whilst remembering the injustice of the past.
Pretty sure the Gregorian calendar didn’t even exist in this country prior to the arrival of the First Fleet.....so whatever date is chosen will be reflective of something that occurred since British settlement. There is no one specific date that anybody can remotely agree on that achieves that.

Hence my suggestion to make it no particular date and just make it a Monday... late jan early feb preferably.
 
Pretty sure the Gregorian calendar didn’t even exist in this country prior to the arrival of the First Fleet.....so whatever date is chosen will be reflective of something that occurred since British settlement. There is no one specific date that anybody can remotely agree on that achieves that.

Hence my suggestion to make it no particular date and just make it a Monday... late jan early feb preferably.
Ultimately, the best solution is for Australia to become a republic. There is no valid reason I can see to remain attached to Britain.

Once that happens, we get a new flag and a new date to celebrate our nation together.
 
No date stands out because we only consider history from the 26th Jan 1788 onwards. We don’t consider Aboriginal history and culture.
Which is crazy given it spans 50,000 years.

The 26th Jan is really just the day Britain claimed the land when they had no right to do so. It has no relevance to the nation we have become.

Whenever Australia Day is celebrated, it should be chosen in consultation with Aboriginal Elders and should be of significance to Aboriginal people. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a date, it could be a particular day or even linked to the seasons. It could be different in each state.

Whatever happens, it should celebrate Aboriginal culture and history whilst remembering the injustice of the past.

Do you realise that aboriginal people are not more important than Muslim Australians, Jewish Australians or Chinese Australians?
 
Do you realise that aboriginal people are not more important than Muslim Australians, Jewish Australians or Chinese Australians?
I don’t believe I said they were.
 
Ultimately, the best solution is for Australia to become a republic. There is no valid reason I can see to remain attached to Britain.

Once that happens, we get a new flag and a new date to celebrate our nation together.
Yes but that’s a different topic and possibly still ten or more years away given how hard it has proven over the years to change the constitution
 
A day to have parties and fireworks and get drunk with friends. Obviously, winter is not a good time. The cricket used to like australia day to build a test around but that has seemed to change since the 20 over stuff. The new day does need to allow people to get outside and have bbqs and get pissed....

I saw a suggestion in late december so that it extended the christmas closedown. That seems like a good idea. Getting drunk before christmas might assist getting drunk for christmas day.

I must admit that I've always enjoyed those "islands" of public holidays during the long long periods of boring work. The easter break was always a good one which came after a post christmas period of work. Some states have holidays in May while others dont. Victorians have something for the Cup dont they, to give an opportunity to get pissed in the first week in Nov. Its really a toss up between a holiday to extend the christmas period to provide a long break to get really pissed, or provide an isolated day during the year to provide a break to get pissed. To me, that's the crunch question. The fact that the current day is based on the arrival date of a pack of unfortunate criminals forcibly expelled from their own country, does make me think that any plausible excuse for a day should be acceptable to rational people, although ironically not necessarily to a pack of drunks.

I also think there should be some form of compromise over a new date. In return, I'd like to see indigenous australians and their supporters agree to morning chants of aussie aussie aussie, oi oi oi....and this could be brought in with changes to the flag etc. Maybe the gov't could issue beer tabs to all australians so that they could attend pop up bars around the country and join with their fellow australians and get pissed.
 

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The 26th Jan is really just the day Britain claimed the land when they had no right to do so. It has no relevance to the nation we have become
Think it’s plenty relevant to the nation we’ve become. If it wasn’t the British on 26th Jan it would have been someone else. Possibly, but not necessarily the Dutch. Maybe different European countries settled different areas of Australia and the Australian continent would be made up of countries not states. We wouldn’t have the queen as head of state, wouldn’t be a commonwealth country, both of which may have impacted the structure of parliament and decisions of parliament. Would the white Australia policy have occurred, would indigenous rights have been better or worse, would someone else have arrived and signed a treaty? We also likely wouldn’t be an English speaking country, have different place names and state/city boundaries. Would the Aussie spirit be the same without the convicts or ANZACs? Without the English cricket would Aussie rules footy have existed/grown, similarly in the northern states would rugby be the established code. Sport seems trivial, but it’s part of the fabric of Australia.

That’s just from a few minutes off the top of my head and I’m sure there’s a shit ton more what ifs and changes.
 
Think it’s plenty relevant to the nation we’ve become. If it wasn’t the British on 26th Jan it would have been someone else. Possibly, but not necessarily the Dutch. We wouldn’t have the queen as head of state, wouldn’t be a commonwealth country, both of which may have impacted the structure of parliament and decisions of parliament. Would the white Australia policy have occurred, would indigenous rights have been better or worse, would someone else have arrived and signed a treaty? We also likely wouldn’t be an English speaking country, have different place names and state/city boundaries. Would the Aussie spirit be the same without the convicts or ANZACs? Without the English cricket would Aussie rules footy have existed/grown, similarly in the northern states would rugby be the established code. Sport seems trivial, but it’s part of the fabric of Australia.

That’s just from a few minutes off the top of my head and I’m sure there’s a sh*t ton more what ifs and changes.
I’m not questioning the important influence of Britain on our development as a nation.

You say it’s important to acknowledge the arrival of the First Fleet.

Do you think it is also important to acknowledge Aboriginal dispossession, genocide and stolen generations?
 
I’m not questioning the important influence of Britain on our development as a nation.

You say it’s important to acknowledge the arrival of the First Fleet.

Do you think it is also important to acknowledge Aboriginal dispossession, genocide and stolen generations?
My posts in previous years have pointed to a shifting of the Australia day occasion to one closer to ANZAC day. Remembrance and recognition in the morning; celebration of the nation we’ve become in the afternoon. Even if 26 January didn’t impact the majority of mobs directly on that date it’s became representative of the beginning of bad treatment and policies for some. For others they don’t think any date is appropriate.

Changing the date doesn’t change the past and ultimately it’s impossible to find a date where someone (not limited to indigenous Australians) hasn’t been impacted negatively.

ANZAC day shows you can commemorate loss and the beginning of loss in a respectful way and reshape it into a positive (not 100% happy) experience. Part of ANZAC day includes not forgetting the past and similar to the mistreatment the Gallapoli campaign was bigger than one day. I think fittingly the landing date of 25th April signifies the broader campaign and now all wars. If done in the right way 26 Jan could too.

My sense is even if another date is chosen we’d see the same protests, so why not make that part of the day?
 
My posts in previous years have pointed to a shifting of the Australia day occasion to one closer to ANZAC day. Remembrance and recognition in the morning; celebration of the nation we’ve become in the afternoon. Even if 26 January didn’t impact the majority of mobs directly on that date it’s became representative of the beginning of bad treatment and policies for some. For others they don’t think any date is appropriate.

Changing the date doesn’t change the past and ultimately it’s impossible to find a date where someone (not limited to indigenous Australians) hasn’t been impacted negatively.

ANZAC day shows you can commemorate loss and the beginning of loss in a respectful way and reshape it into a positive (not 100% happy) experience. Part of ANZAC day includes not forgetting the past and similar to the mistreatment the Gallapoli campaign was bigger than one day. I think fittingly the landing date of 25th April signifies the broader campaign and now all wars. If done in the right way 26 Jan could too.

My sense is even if another date is chosen we’d see the same protests, so why not make that part of the day?
ANZAC day is fundamentally different because its a nation remembering its own losses. Australia Day would be more akin to Turkey celebrating their military victory over the ANZACs and if such a day was celebrated in Australia by families of Turkish background you could see how it would be a kick in the guts to the ANZACs

I cant see any significant problem with changing the day. Truth is we don't have a culture of making such a day a unified celebration of our nation. I cant remember doing anything ever to acknowledge the day as Australia day. Just another holiday. Also I think its celebrating the nationhood of a very short time relatively in a population that has so many different backgrounds also contributes.
 
ANZAC day is fundamentally different because its a nation remembering its own losses. Australia Day would be more akin to Turkey celebrating their military victory over the ANZACs and if such a day was celebrated in Australia by families of Turkish background you could see how it would be a kick in the guts to the ANZACs
There in lies the problem in the views of many it’s not a matter of defeat or victory or sides. As a nation we need to be united in recognition of the past and celebrating the nation we’ve become. Until everyone can get past the divisive mindset of us vs them it won’t matter what date we recognise/celebrate Australia day.

Given the differing views the day needs to encapsulate both aspects.
 

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