A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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No they haven't, I went to one of them and there was an Aussie Rules team, it just didn't get much attention. Not to mention Dunstall and Akermanis both came from GPS schools.
I am referring to an all year levels, proper, full season Brisbane GPS interschool AF competition ie against other GPS schools.

When has such a GPS, all year level, interschool AF competition existed? How many GPS schools were involved, who did they play against, & how many AF games pa did each school play? Were these GPS AF games played on the GPS own sports' grounds? Did they play the bagpipes at GPS AF games, & were GPS non-playing students forced to attend as spectators (as in RU)?

In Melb. private schools, it is common for many of their students from an Asian ethnic background to play AF for their school.
Is this similar for students, from an Asian ethnic background, playing RU in Brisbane & Sydney private schools? If not, why not?

Why haven't Brisbane GPS (& AIC, until 2019) schools offered AF, Australia's biggest sport, as a full season option for all their students?
The Brisbane AIC schools are expecting a big number of students, at all year levels, to play AF at their schools, which is being introduced in 2019.

Do you think AF is/was being discriminated against, by the GPS & AIC respectively?

https://gpsqld.org.au/sports-activities/
 
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Johnny Bananas

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You simply said it was banned and I was pointing out it isn't. I have no idea about bagpipes and whatnot because I didn't play Aussie Rules at school. I certainly wasn't forced to attend union games though.
 
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You simply said it was banned and I was pointing out it isn't. I have no idea about bagpipes and whatnot because I didn't play Aussie Rules at school. I certainly wasn't forced to attend union games though.
Can you respond to my questions to you in post #801 above?

Why does AF not appear in the above Brisbane GPS sports' website (which lists all the many sports played at their schools)?

Are you suggesting that no GPS students are required to attend GPS RU games, as spectators? And that bagpipes are not played at some GPS RU games?
 

Johnny Bananas

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Can you respond to my questions to you in post #801 above?

Why does AF not appear in the above Brisbane GPS sports' website (which lists all the many sports played at their schools)?

Are you suggesting that no GPS students are required to attend GPS RU games, as spectators? And that bagpipes are not played at some GPS RU games?
What is your obsession with bagpipes? I only answer what I know, and I know I wasn't required to attend GPS rugby union games but my school did have an Aussie Rules team. I suggest you call one of the schools to ask if you have more questions since I don't know the answer to your repeated queries about bagpipe status.
 

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Hard to believe a school would ban a sport - any sport. I can understand why certain sports don't get a run at a school, be it lack of interest or simply no teacher willing to organise it.

But an outright ban? What the actual ****? Surely the more sports available the more likely all the kids at the school play something. Which should be the actual objective.
 

madmug

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Hard to believe a school would ban a sport - any sport. I can understand why certain sports don't get a run at a school, be it lack of interest or simply no teacher willing to organise it.

But an outright ban? What the actual ****? Surely the more sports available the more likely all the kids at the school play something. Which should be the actual objective.
Its all about cost. Government schools have been screwed to the wall & most struggle to provide much more than even basic extracurricular activities (sport, music,). Teachers have been the easy target in all this. Its easier to attack them than lying politicians & lazy parents.
 

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Found these old link to Brisbane GPS schools playing our great game.
It appears that 2014 may have been the last year it featured in their sports activities, but not exactly sure.
Prior to that the schools played at one time for the Jason Dunstall Cup, so the big question is what happened up there to arrive at the present situation in 2018.

https://www.aflq.com.au/gps-school-season-to-kick-off/

To the AFL fans on here who do not understand how an School entity can ban our game some historical research might help, and it appears at this time the hardline GPS schools in Brisbane are a closed shop to our sport.
In NSW and QLD the AFL Authorities go in and offer to the school systems an attractive complete and full package of continuing assistance to get our game established, however even that gets knocked back at times.
It took AFL NSW years to crack the Sydney GPS Schools and even now not all are on board with the hardline Rugby Union Schools not involved.
 
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(1) The 2018 NSW Suburban RU Annual Report reveals that adult player nos. for this Sydney comp. have had a significant decline- from 6051 in 2017 to 5257 in 2018 (See pg 7).
In the 1970's, it is my understanding that Sydney had 12,000+ adult males playing RU (no females).

Chairman J. Morrison stated, at pg 2, " Despite so much anxiety surrounding the game of rugby at the moment, our on field player numbers resulted in 174 teams competing each week, maintaining our numbers (?- my question mark) in the face of strong competition from other sports and social pressure" (My emphases- interesting choice of words).

https://admin.fusesport.com/_uploads/res/132_13717.PDF

(2) Spiro Zavos (81 y.o.) is an Award-winning journalist, has been directly involved in RU for over 50 years, was a Senior Writer on RU on the SMH for nearly 30 years, & has written 12 books- most on RU, including 4 books on the history of RU in Aust., NZ, Britain & Sth Africa. He is considered one of the foremost writers on RU in the world.

He is a founding, Expert RU writer on The Roar website, & on 25.11.18 wrote the following "diatribe" (after the Wallabies had received very widespread condemnation for lacking basic skills in passing, catching, tackling, kicking, & scrummaging) re the Wallaby record test losses of an
"... unacceptable 9 out of 13 matches...the Wallabies project, the only moneymaker for Rugby Australia, is in terminal decline. For the first time in 109 years, Australia has lost 6 successive Tests to England. This terminal and inevitable decline will destroy the wealth, the reputation, and the strength of Australian rugby...The Chairman of Rugby Australia, Cameron Clyne, needs to call an extraordinary meeting where he, and the rest of the Board, resign...At virtually every level of Rugby...The Wallabies are now the subject of ridicule from the rugby world".

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/26/to-save-the-wallabies-clyne-castle-and-cheika-must-go/

(3) David Lord (c. 80 y.o.) writer, former journalist & TV/ Radio commentator, first began coaching junior rugby nearly 60 years ago. He is considered a very authorative voice on rugby in the public domain; & was the first organiser to attempt to make Rugby a professional sport (when, in 1983, he signed up 208 of the world's best players). He is one of the founders of The Roar website, where he is an Expert RU Writer, & on 25.11 wrote the following

"...the vast majority of the current Wallabies simply just don't know how to play the game.They are devoid of the basics...(because- my word)...so many rugby-orientated schools of the past are now catering for rugby league, AFL, and soccer as well. Rugby has been fractured at grassroots level, but that's not the only reason for the decline...sadly, there are far too many masters coaching schoolboy rugby because they have to, not because they want to...".

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/...eika-wont-solve-the-endemic-wallaby-problems/

Until recently, both S.Davos & D.Lord were both very "pro establishment, pro RA", & rarely discussed GR RU problems. They never were as scathing as they are now.
Apart from Foxsports' commentators & G.Robinson (SMH), most prominent RU writers & senior RU figures have expressed similar dismay at the decline of the Wallabies, & GR RU in Aust.
 
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1) SMH 30.12.18
Roy Masters, the SMH senior RL journalist, has for decades written many articles about the "failings" of the AFL in general; & about it, & GR AF, in NSW in particular.

It appears he may be changing his approach to the AFL & GR AF, in this article about the concerns Cronulla (which is beset by many problems) may be relocated. He writes of his concerns that (& opposition to) Cronulla may be relocated from Sydney- & thus could provide a big opportunity for AF to increase its popularity.

" Fans of the Bears probably switched to the Waratahs or SWANS (my emphasis)...It is more likely Sharks fans will follow the example of North (NRL Bears- my words) and abandon the game...AFL goal posts sprout up like trifids in the city where rugby league began in 1908".
(The triffid is a fictitious, tall, mobile, prolific, very menacing & highly venomous plant species)

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/st...n-flourish-on-new-ground-20181230-p50ov7.html

2) There will be another NSW record GR AF participation rate announced by the AFL in the next few weeks.

Willoughby JFC, on Sydney's North Shore, has announced for 2018 its own Club records , re:-
. a record 526 club comp. players & teams (in 2010, had 285 comp. players only)
. plus more than 144 Auskickers
. a record 100+ volunteers .
All this was achieved despite the inconvenience of losing their home ground, for 1 year, in 2018 ( converted to artificial surface).

The WJFC President has the confidence, in their Annual Report, to write re GR AF's strengths
"...continue to be one of the DOMINANT (my emphasis) winter sporting codes played on the Sydney North Shore".

http://wildcatsafl.com/presidents-report-2018-agm/

There is a shortage of sports' grounds in Sydney's NS, ES & some other areas. As golf patronage is in long term decline in Australia, redundant Sydney golf courses will probably be converted, or halved
Warringah, Balgowlah, Wakehurst, Moore Park, & Marrickville (inner west) golf courses may be converted to address the shortage of sports' grounds.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...porting-fields-and-parks-20170601-gwhs1m.html
 
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LordLucifer

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I think the best option would be a 20 team competition within the next 30 years:

1) Tasmanian, based in Hobart playing 5 games a season out of launceston.

2) South West Sydney based around the Liverpool area and ACT with a game or two around the Riverina, one would be a new club the other would be a relocated Vic team.

(Que the moving your club comments)
A second team in the west of Sydney would not be clever right now, the Giants are already working that region hard.

The north side of the harbour is where its at, there is a lot of engagement in the code already plus some untapped areas as well.
 

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1) SMH 30.12.18
Roy Masters, the SMH senior RL journalist, has for decades written many articles about the "failings" of the AFL in general; & about it, & GR AF, in NSW in particular.

It appears he may be changing his approach to the AFL & GR AF, in this article about the concerns Cronulla (which is beset by many problems) may be relocated. He writes of his concerns that (& opposition to) Cronulla may be relocated from Sydney- & thus could provide a big opportunity for AF to increase its popularity.

" Fans of the Bears probably switched to the Waratahs or SWANS (my emphasis)...It is more likely Sharks fans will follow the example of North (NRL Bears- my words) and abandon the game....AFL goal posts sprout up like trifids in the city where rugby league began in 1908".
(The triffid is a fictitious, tall, mobile, prolific, very menacing & highly venomous plant species)

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/st...n-flourish-on-new-ground-20181230-p50ov7.html

2) There will be another NSW record GR AF participation rate announced by the AFL in the next few weeks.

Willoughby JFC, on Sydney's North Shore, has announced for 2018 its own Club records , re:-
. a record 526 club comp. players & teams (in 2010, had 285 comp. players only)
. plus more than 144 Auskickers.
. a record 100+ volunteers .
All this was achieved despite the inconvenience of losing their home ground, for 1 year, in 2018 ( converted to artificial surface).

The WJFC President has the confidence, in their Annual Report, to write re GR AF's strengths
"...continue to be one of the DOMINANT (my emphasis) winter sporting codes played on the Sydney North Shore".

http://wildcatsafl.com/presidents-report-2018-agm/

There is a shortage of sports' grounds in Sydney's NS, & some other areas. As golf patronage is in long term decline in Australia, redundant golf courses will probably be converted, or halved
Warringah, Balgowlah, Wakehurst, Moore Park, & Marrickville (inner west) golf courses may be converted to address the shortage of sports' grounds.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...porting-fields-and-parks-20170601-gwhs1m.html
It seems the AFL's penetration into some of the Sydney GPS Schools (Boys and Girls) has flowed in from the surrounding suburbs from where they used to be Rugby Union nurseries but now parents/students are choosing other sports.
The local Councils up there will look at participation numbers/demand when they sit down to do ground allocations but sports politics will come into it as well in a Rugby Code/Soccer Football enviroment. Its all about numbers at the end of the day.
Lets hope AFLNSW has got some good negotiators on the ground when they deal with the Councils.
It is interesting that our game is classless in its heartlands but in Sydney the Rugby Codes used to be very class conscious but not so much now.
 

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A second team in the west of Sydney would not be clever right now, the Giants are already working that region hard.

The north side of the harbour is where its at, there is a lot of engagement in the code already plus some untapped areas as well.
Yeah I agree, that’s why I said next 30 years. I think the Swans are doing a pretty good job North of the harbour as it, they’ve had a pretty big presence there ever since North Sydney Bears were dropped from first grade.
 

LordLucifer

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I'm a little more bullish than that.

I can see three teams in Sydney (Swans, GWS & a new North Shore club) plus one team based in the Illawarra & one based on the Central Coast.
 

General Giant

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I'm a little more bullish than that.

I can see three teams in Sydney (Swans, GWS & a new North Shore club) plus one team based in the Illawarra & one based on the Central Coast.
Yeah no.

Illawarra can barely support half a league team and a Basketball team, Central coast is worse.

And cant see the Swans allowing a team 10 mins up the road in North Sydney.

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LordLucifer

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Yeah no.

Illawarra can barely support half a league team and a Basketball team, Central coast is worse.

And cant see the Swans allowing a team 10 mins up the road in North Sydney.

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Central Coast is no.9 & the Illawarra is no. 11 in the Top 50 cities by population, they are larger than Geelong. RL is on the nose and the popularity of Aussie Rules is on the rise.

As for another team in Sydney, it doesn't have to be based in North Sydney, it could be further up on the Northern Beaches. As for the Swans, they have had all of the metro area to themselves for a couple of decades, they may not like another team in the metro area but its not about them, its about the growth of the game.
 

General Giant

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Central Coast is no.9 & the Illawarra is no. 11 in the Top 50 cities by population, they are larger than Geelong. RL is on the nose and the popularity of Aussie Rules is on the rise.

As for another team in Sydney, it doesn't have to be based in North Sydney, it could be further up on the Northern Beaches. As for the Swans, they have had all of the metro area to themselves for a couple of decades, they may not like another team in the metro area but its not about them, its about the growth of the game.
And?
Neither region has a ground and if they cant support games already there I cant see them going to a new sport.

Yes it is about expansion and the only spot you could feasibly put a new team in Sydney is the Macarthur area as it gives the other 2 clubs a big enough region.
We wont be piling clubs into areas and over crowding them. That's not expansion or growing the game.

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LordLucifer

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And?
Neither region has a ground and if they cant support games already there I cant see them going to a new sport.

Yes it is about expansion and the only spot you could feasibly put a new team in Sydney is the Macarthur area as it gives the other 2 clubs a big enough region.
We wont be piling clubs into areas and over crowding them. That's not expansion or growing the game.

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I understand your theory here but don't agree with it.

Population of Sydney metro area is something around the 4.6 million mark, your mob GWS has taken about a third of that by being based around and covering the west from Parramatta. This leaves two reasonably equal areas of approx. the same population, Swans would get the city, south & east and out to Parramatta whilst the new entity would be everything north of the harbour.

There are plenty of options to create a professional training base & administrative offices, the Warringah Water Rats grounds at Warriewood would be a starting point.
 

Bollox

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Rat Park is not a starting point for anything aussie rules related. There is one suitable ground for the kids and maybe 3or4 oblongs for soccer and rugger.
Northern Beaches can only support one RL team (Manly Warringah), and that is marginal at best. The club is a disaster and that is in a RL city. The Leagues club is a dump, the ground is never full and you struggle to hear anyone even discussing RL anymore. Rugger isnt faring any better.
Soccer is based at Cromer and always popular when u go past. Soccer has been strong wih the kids on the beaches for 20+ years though. Aussie Rules is still just a nothing. Kids might barrack for the swans but i suspect more barrack for Arsenal, Real Madrid, or any other television sport. Silly to confuse it with actual support.
Sydney's north West is a far stronger base for Aussie Rules in Sydney and has been that way for decades. Kids on the Northern Beaches would rather surf. Stronger as you go toward Nth Sydney but still a novelty game.
 
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Soccer has been strong wih the kids on the beaches for 20+ years though.[Agree] Aussie Rules is still just a nothing. Kids might barrack for the swans but i suspect [?] more barrack for Arsenal, Real Madrid, or any other television sport. Silly to confuse it with actual support.[Disagree]
Sydney's north West is a far stronger base for Aussie Rules in Sydney and has been that way for decades. [Disagree].
Have you read the preceding posts in this thread? There are multiple, direct citations from specialist RU & RL MSM journalists, ex RL/RU players, & RL/RU officials bemoaning the long term decline of male RL/RU participant nos.; & the rise of the AFL & GR AF in Sydney (& other parts of NSW, ACT, & Qld.).

In 2018, there were c. 15,000+ registered AF club comp. jnr. (ie 8-17 y.o.) players in Sydney alone- this is very healthy, & it is undeniable (& widely acknowledged) that GR AF is having strong growth.
The 15,000+ club jnrs. does not include Sydney's thousands of booming Auskick nos. (usually 5-8 y.o.); nor Sydney's booming govt. & private school AF nos.

Soccer certainly has very large participant nos. It is, however, beset by numerous serious problems, on nearly all metrics. A strong case can be argued that soccer peaked with the successful "Golden Generation", & from 2015 is in decline.

This link, written in June 2018, on an academic website subject to peer review, by S. Georgakis, an independent Sports' academic/expert from Sydney University, provides great detail of the decline of soccer in Aust.
It was written before the 2018/19 A League season, which has again had a large fall in ratings. Fox will not be paying again $45,000,000+ cash pa (+ contra) if the A League continues to attract such terrible ratings.
Average crowds are almost certain to decline again, by the time the A League finishes for 2019. A League average crowds however, at 10,000+ per game, are very healthy by international standards- & A League expansion will, almost certainly, improve its total crowds (but average?).

https://theconversation.com/why-soccer-is-falling-behind-footy-and-rugby-in-australia-97327

I agree with you that an additional AFL team in the Northern Suburbs/North Shore is extremely unlikely.

If GWS regularly gets lockout crowds (which might take between 10-20 years. 2018 GWS membership was 25,000+, including 4,000 ACT-based), then the AFL will desire a 3rd team in Sydney's SW/Sthn. suburbs. It would likely have Canberra in its name, playing 3-4 games in Canberra. 1 in Wollongong.

The ABS is predicting Sydney will have c. 8,000,000 population by 2050; & total ACT + Wollongong + South Coast area c. 1,100,000+.
Sydney is too BIG, INFLUENTIAL (most media, & top ASX 200, companies) & WEALTHY to have only 2 teams- & the momentum is incontrovertibly shifting to AF in Sydney. By 2050, AF will be MUCH stronger in NSW; & also, the AFLW & female GR AF is only in its infancy in NSW.

Will RU remain a tier one professional sport?
 
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No idea wtf all that is about.
Commented in regard to the Northern Beaches.

With regard to the game on the North Shore in general, it isnt progressing much. Certainly not with the kids.
All codes develop sympathetic stats. RL is booming (according to RL), Soccer is killing it (according to Soccer), Aussie rules is making inroads (according to AR). Stats have been meaningless for as long as i can recall re footy in Sydney. It is always about to take off or is somehow booming.

AFL's biggest problem is still the same. They see it as a fabulous product. WE luv watching it....WHY ? coz we were brought up with it and understand the rules.

To New Australians and their children, as well as 1st generation....its not worth bothering with. Far too complicated with far too many rules. The average joe not brought up with it sees it as novelty value only...good athletes, can be fun to watch, but no representative footy and they cant be arsed having to sit an exam just to understand what they are witnessing. Plus the rules change all the time.
Soccer is easy, soccer is simple, soccer is safe for the kiddies, soccer is killing every other code in NSW no matter what worthless "stats" can be fudged. Just the way it is.
 
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