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Academy Watch

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I posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant. What will be interesting is how they draw the line between the bid and the pick and what you're forced to give up if they deem a selection worth more than one. If you're 5 picks away do you have to give up a 4th round? 6 picks 3rd, 7, 2nd? What then happens with picks where there are bids in the 2nd round onwards, does the scale reduce to take into account the diminishing differences once you step outside of the first 20-30 picks (depending on the strength of the draft) or will it be for top 10-15 picks only given we always hear around draft time that picks after the first round can be very subjective.

Will be interesting to see how it works in practice for both F/S and academies. The other question will be that given there is a minimum draft picks to be used in a draft by each team, if you have to give up two picks for one player do both of them count toward this tally? Therefore you only have to take 2 players in the draft because you've used 3 picks? From memory the draft rules only address picks, not players when it comes to minimums. It is probably going to be pretty rare that a team won't want to take at least 3 in the draft (inc promoted rookies) but it will be interesting to see how unintended consequences such as this are treated.
 
Fatcat08 said:
I posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant. What will be interesting is how they draw the line between the bid and the pick and what you're forced to give up if they deem a selection worth more than one. If you're 5 picks away do you have to give up a 4th round? 6 picks 3rd, 7, 2nd? What then happens with picks where there are bids in the 2nd round onwards, does the scale reduce to take into account the diminishing differences once you step outside of the first 20-30 picks (depending on the strength of the draft) or will it be for top 10-15 picks only given we always hear around draft time that picks after the first round can be very subjective.
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I have a suspicion it may only apply to early first rounders. Otherwise it's hard to argue that (looking at the table) if St Kilda didn't bid on our academy player in Round 3 but Melbourne does, that Melbourne have a much better grasp on the value of a player than the Saints. There's every chance Melbourne's is out of whack and the other clubs would have all passed that round.
 
dlanod said:
I have a suspicion it may only apply to early first rounders. Otherwise it's hard to argue that (looking at the table) if St Kilda didn't bid on our academy player in Round 3 but Melbourne does, that Melbourne have a much better grasp on the value of a player than the Saints. There's every chance Melbourne's is out of whack and the other clubs would have all passed that round.
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yeah that would be my thoughts as well. Question is how do define early first round? pick 8, 9 10? going to be very subjective and the answer could change draft to draft depending on the spread of talent. Can of worms.
 

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dlanod said:
I have a suspicion it may only apply to early first rounders. Otherwise it's hard to argue that (looking at the table) if St Kilda didn't bid on our academy player in Round 3 but Melbourne does, that Melbourne have a much better grasp on the value of a player than the Saints. There's every chance Melbourne's is out of whack and the other clubs would have all passed that round.
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I wonder if it would apply as a normal part of the trade period, or as an ad-hoc arbitration mechanism. To my mind, the latter makes a lot more sense. For example, if a team bid their high first-rounder on Heeney and the Swans were going to take him at 18, the trade gets referred to the panel. Whereas if we're trying to take a couple of academy kids with late picks that no-one bids on, the bidding would work as normal and you wouldn't need the panel to provide a rating for every single academy kid and F/S prospect, which would be an absurd outcome.
 
dlanod said:
Really it's only Heeney. People (Eddites) are pissed off about Sydney winning a premiership and then bringing in Tippett and then Franklin as well, so they got them stripped of COLA. Now they get a "free hit" on an academy kid - strip them of that too!

Davis doesn't even get mentioned this year, and next year is barely mentioned unless it's to build a case for this dicking that's going on at the moment.
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Maybe that's the case... AFL match reports from the U18 Championships had Davis as a possible second round pick...and special mention after Callum Mills..

LAST year, Abe Davis showed his talents as a strong-marking, creative defender. Two games into this year's division two NAB AFL Under-18 Championships, Davis is showing plenty of encouraging signs at the other end of the ground.The 193cm Davis kicked two goals and had 15 disposals in New South Wales-ACT's nine-point win over Tasmania on Saturday at Windy Hill, and was influential in setting up a few more.In a tight-fought win – the Rams took the points 8.9 (57) to 7.6 (48) – Davis presented well and kicked nicely. Tied to the Sydney Swans through their zone academy, some recruiters predict Davis could cost the club its second-round NAB AFL Draft selection.
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There were many other contributors for the Rams, with ruckman Isaac Muller continuing his strong form. The 196cm big man from North Albury was one of his side's best, gathering 17 disposals and 33 hit-outs in a dominant display.
He fed a bevy of midfielders who fought hard in game that was at times fiery, with Jacob Hopper (21 touches, seven clearances) Isaac Heeney (18 disposals) and Callum Mills (17) impressive.
Tyler Roos also had 18 disposals, with the possible Brisbane Lions' father-son selection collecting five clearances and offering strong drive through the wings
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-28/honest-abes-day-out

Father/Son Josh Dunkley
The interest in Josh is genuine with the Swans keeping in contact with Dunkley senior and junior over the past 18 months.
"He's a talented young player and Kinnear Beatson (Swans' recruiting manager) and I have been monitoring his progress," Swans welfare manager Dennis Carroll said.
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...son-joshson-spat/story-e6frf9jf-1226577393183
 
Football Pope said:
Maybe that's the case... AFL match reports from the U18 Championships had Davis as a possible second round pick...and special mention after Callum Mills..
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If all they had was a guy ranked in the second round or later this year, and then a couple of guys next year there'd be no outrage at the moment. Come next year, we'd be a year later from all three of the premiership, Tippett and Franklin, and they may well have had a down year - in which case the academies probably would've been let slide for a few more years.
 
Kevvo said:
So now I wonder, do we just let these kids get drafted by whoever, then after two years they can get homesick and come home for a song?
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Problem is, they rarely come back.

McGuane is the only one I can think of where he sighted coming home as being a factor. I'm not sure Raines did. I'd love to agree with your comments, but it seems a lot move to down to Melbourne, immerse themselves in the AFL fish bowl, the adulation and everything else that comes with being an AFL player in Melbourne and don't come back. I remember thinking Armitage would be a shoe in to come back and even Whitecross, but clearly they haven't.

I'm as pissed as anyone about what may be happening with the academies, but I'm just not sure your strategy will result in the desired outcome.
 
Good to see Caroline Wilson on FC again providing a voice of reason re: father/son and the academies...basically said any changes would be a knee jerk reaction and those calling for it need their heads read.

Hope city hall were taking note...unlikely I know.

She is seriously one of the only sensible and credible journos out there.
 
Dylan12 said:
Good to see Caroline Wilson on FC again providing a voice of reason re: father/son and the academies...basically said any changes would be a knee jerk reaction and those calling for it need their heads read.

Hope city hall were taking note...unlikely I know.

She is seriously one of the only sensible and credible journos out there.
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She wrote article about it for tomorrows paper. Apparently the changes won't be as severe as dickhead Barrett has said (no panel, no multiple picks)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...own-their-nsw-development-20140721-zvgg0.html
 
Yep, from the above article:

The AFL appears to have ruled out forcing clubs to give up future picks, along with ruling out a specially convened panel to determine the worth of a player. However Sydney, for example, could be forced to sacrifice not only its first-round pick for Heeney put perhaps have its second-round pick pushed back in the draft.
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Dylan12 said:
Problem is, they rarely come back.

McGuane is the only one I can think of where he sighted coming home as being a factor. I'm not sure Raines did. I'd love to agree with your comments, but it seems a lot move to down to Melbourne, immerse themselves in the AFL fish bowl, the adulation and everything else that comes with being an AFL player in Melbourne and don't come back. I remember thinking Armitage would be a shoe in to come back and even Whitecross, but clearly they haven't.

I'm as pissed as anyone about what may be happening with the academies, but I'm just not sure your strategy will result in the desired outcome.
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To be honest my suggestion was a bit tongue in cheek. I was mostly hoping that the ham-fisted response to Heeney (noting the more moderate articles linked above and that nothing as been announced yet) would lead to some other opportunity that the AFL/Ed hadn't thought through.
 
dlanod said:
If all they had was a guy ranked in the second round or later this year, and then a couple of guys next year there'd be no outrage at the moment. Come next year, we'd be a year later from all three of the premiership, Tippett and Franklin, and they may well have had a down year - in which case the academies probably would've been let slide for a few more years.
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The outrage would be there regardless... it goes further than one top 5 pick.. It's the combination of players coming through... Sydney developing it's own players and they get first right of refusal ...panic stations....Look at what it has managed to accomplish with unfashionable recycled players from other Clubs..to add insult to injury they have players like Tom Mitchell, Ryan O'Keefe and LRT running around in the reserves, who could easily get games in some Melbourne based Clubs... Add to that players wanting to go/be there like Tippett, Franklin and possibly Frawley..and not to an open cheque book club like Collingwood...Ed would be starting to feel a bit vulnerable...I'd go as far as to say they've taken the pazazz from Collingwood....Let him squirm...
 
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-24/fatherson-academies-move

This is how it will eventually pan out, IMO.

SHIFTING the father-son and academy bidding process closer to the NAB AFL Draft is an option for the AFL as it considers how best to strengthen the contentious system.
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After the Draft Combine


Live bidding during the draft is unlikely to be implemented this year, but may form part of future discussions.

The live element would make the event more dynamic, but also better allow clubs to see which other players are available when making their bids.
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This may well be the end result, & could work for us as well.
 
Yeah, haven't thought deeply about it but that seems to make sense.

Will make it tricky for frontier clubs in trade week though. If you don't know what the bids are going to be from other clubs, you will kinda need to hold on to your picks.
 
Anyway guys, what will be will be.

You should focus on the good news. Have you been following the school sport U15 championships.

Queensland are blitzing it. Beat NSW - narrowly with scores level at 1/2 and 3/4 time. But since then have beaten both WA andd SA. The Queesland academies must be prducing some real talent.
 
On face value, a live-bidding system is less batdirt insane than the panels idea.

One problem is how that interacts with trade week - what if we've traded our second round pick and someone bids on an academy player late in the first round? I guess we then go through the process of ticky-tacking around with the order of other picks to even it up, which seems to add a lot of complexity.

What if someone with a father-son or academy prospect in the top handful trades their way out of the top few rounds altogether?

In some ways live bidding is probably better for us - when we choose whether to take an academy player, we know exactly we're missing out on, instead of having to guess at what will be left in the draft pool at that point. Say someone had bid a pick in the 20s for Jonathan Freeman last year - would we have let him go and taken Taylor? Probably.
 

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TheGong said:
Anyway guys, what will be will be.

You should focus on the good news. Have you been following the school sport U15 championships.

Queensland are blitzing it. Beat NSW - narrowly with scores level at 1/2 and 3/4 time. But since then have beaten both WA andd SA. The Queesland academies must be prducing some real talent.
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Shhhhhhh!
 
You hear sometimes that for example SA kids like Aish are good options at the draft as they have played a bit of senior football as opposed to TAC who have only really played agaisnt the same age opponents. I understand that the NEAFL is a lesser competition than the VFL/SANFL/WAFL but how does it compare to the TAC? They may have been behind in their more junior development but is their any advantage in our academy guys getting exposure against more senior players and league than the TAC?
 
KissKiss said:
You hear sometimes that for example SA kids like Aish are good options at the draft as they have played a bit of senior football as opposed to TAC who have only really played agaisnt the same age opponents. I understand that the NEAFL is a lesser competition than the VFL/SANFL/WAFL but how does it compare to the TAC? They may have been behind in their more junior development but is their any advantage in our academy guys getting exposure against more senior players and league than the TAC?
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Don't think overall the quality of the comp is good enough for it to count. Whilst it is senior footy, it is just way below the likes of the WAFL and SANFL. Still, it is good experience for them actually playing against men. A healthy mix of playing in their age group as well as senior footy is the way to go i think. If not with the Lions ressies, then released back to their clubs to play.
 
Keep your voices down but Hammelman kicked four against Nth Ballarat on the weekend.
Hammelmann was a shining light for Queensland, continuing his mid-year form surge, finishing with four goals.

The Morningside junior was a focal point in attack, showing improved intensity in the game, taking strong marks and giving his team options up the ground as well.
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Full article here - http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=5&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=2972&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=5ed86784c7
 

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