Academy Watch

[Bucking Beads]

If the academy kids are worth the picks that get bid on them it is well worth our while to match the bids if it only costs us 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders.

 

[KissKiss]

If the academy kids are worth the picks that get bid on them it is well worth our while to match the bids if it only costs us 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders.

I agree as long as it doesn't put us into debt next year

 

[Panthera]

We are also likely to lose Aish and Leuenberger who will give us something coming in return.

Hipwood has been moving up the draft board for clubs since he moved into defence. That was before the Champs but I do agree when he was playing up forward he was not thought of nearly as highly. The move back has really highlighted what he can do and why most have been moving him up. He is rightly considered in first round consideration.

What are your thoughts on us matching a Top 20 pick on him, considering we have young developing talls in:

Clarke
Andrews
Gardiner
McStay
Close
Freeman
Watts
Paparone
Hammelmann
Beasley

That's a quarter of our list already, with the likelihood of another one coming in early on in the AFL Draft

 

[Quigley]

I agree as long as it doesn't put us into debt next year

Why? I have pretty much conceded that we be using our firsts next year on Allison.

 

[Quigley]

What are your thoughts on us matching a Top 20 pick on him, considering we have young developing talls in:

Clarke
Andrews
Gardiner
McStay
Close
Freeman
Watts
Paparone
Hammelmann
Beasley

That's a quarter of our list already, with the likelihood of another one coming in early on in the AFL Draft

I take him. We have taken a shotgun approach with limited success. Bring in quality when we get the chance.

 

[KissKiss]

Why? I have pretty much conceded that we be using our firsts next year on Allison.

Clubs will not be eligible to participate in the bidding system if they still owe points going into the next draw.

Because I thought going into debt stopped us from being able to take him. Or am I reading that wrong?

 

[WA Lion]

Clubs will not be eligible to participate in the bidding system if they still owe points going into the next draw.

Because I thought going into debt stopped us from being able to take him. Or am I reading that wrong?

I read that as - if you carry such a sizable points deficit from the year before that even all of your following years draft picks can't make up that deficit then you are not eligible to take part.

i.e. Our academy produces four or five first round talents, and we match them all and carry over a huge deficit, and all of our picks the following year still don't make up that deficit = then we wouldn't be eligible to take part

But I could be wrong!

 

[Bucking Beads]

Clubs will not be eligible to participate in the bidding system if they still owe points going into the next draw.

Because I thought going into debt stopped us from being able to take him. Or am I reading that wrong?

Wouldn't that mean that Allison just goes into the draft and we can take him with our first pick?

 

[KissKiss]

Yeah I wasn't sure on how to read it to be honest

 

[Quigley]

Clubs will not be eligible to participate in the bidding system if they still owe points going into the next draw.

Because I thought going into debt stopped us from being able to take him. Or am I reading that wrong?

My interpretation is that once you have gone over your allotted points for the year and are into deficit for next year you cannot continue to bid for players in the first year. So for example assume we take Keays, Hipwood and William this year and that put us into a deficit for next year we could not continue to match bids on the likes of Buzza, Chol or Weller from next year's points.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

I read that as - if you carry such a sizable points deficit from the year before that even all of your following years draft picks can't make up that deficit then you are not eligible to take part.

i.e. Our academy produces four or five first round talents, and we match them all and carry over a huge deficit, and all of our picks the following year still don't make up that deficit = then we wouldn't be eligible to take part

But I could be wrong!

That's my read on it as well, if you can't cover last years debt you'll be excluded from that years bidding.

 

[Quigley]

My interpretation is that once you have gone over your allotted points for the year and are into deficit for next year you cannot continue to bid for players in the first year. So for example assume we take Keays, Hipwood and William this year and that put us into a deficit for next year we could not continue to match bids on the likes of Buzza, Chol or Weller from next year's points.

I queried someone who works in a club (not ours) and this was his understanding. Once you have dipped into next years points you can't continue to bid on other players this year.

 

[KissKiss]

I read that as - if you carry such a sizable points deficit from the year before that even all of your following years draft picks can't make up that deficit then you are not eligible to take part.

i.e. Our academy produces four or five first round talents, and we match them all and carry over a huge deficit, and all of our picks the following year still don't make up that deficit = then we wouldn't be eligible to take part

But I could be wrong!

My interpretation is that once you have gone over your allotted points for the year and are into deficit for next year you cannot continue to bid for players in the first year. So for example assume we take Keays, Hipwood and William this year and that put us into a deficit for next year we could not continue to match bids on the likes of Buzza, Chol or Weller from next year's points.

Both of these would make sense for that part of the rules. Its a bit frustrating that there are still these questions floating around that haven't been explained

 

[SizeMatters]

So even if Chol for example got bid at like pick 70 we couldn't take him? Even though it would cost us 0 points? Wow... that doesn't make sense.

 

[iBeng]

Can someone translate THIS article into English for me?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-08/league-adds-safety-net-to-draft-future-picks

THE AFL has added a safeguard to its complicated draft bidding system to protect the future first-round picks of clubs who want to take a father-son or academy player late in the draft.

The League made the change to the academy bidding system to ensure clubs weren't deterred from choosing father-son or academy prospects late in the draft because of the risk that repaying any outstanding points the following year may have altered the position of their first pick.

Clubs can either find points in a single year through using points allocated to their existing draft selections up to pick No.74 or, if that is not possible, owe points the following season.

The changes mean, for example, that a club will not risk pushing back their first pick in the 2016 draft if they go into a points-debt by choosing a later-round academy selection this year.

Any points incurred for these later round players can be repaid in the round the bid is received, after the AFL tweaked its new set of rules so that a first-round draft position was only altered if a bid came in the previous year’s first round.

If a player attracts a bid in the third round and is then chosen by the club with first access to the academy or father-son prospect later that round, the club has to find points the following year to pay for that player.

Under the slightly revised system the club will be able to recover those points from its third round selection rather than the first round allocation as was originally planned.

The anomaly would have meant that if the system had been in place last year then the Sydney Swans would have slipped back in the first round to repay the points used to acquire Jack Hiscox who was taken in the second round.

Under the new system, however, they will retain, for example, pick 17 even if they selected Hiscox the previous year and went into debt by 194 points.
Rather than spend the points in the first round and risk slipping back to pick 23 they will be able to spend the 194 points in the second round – where the bid for Hiscox was made – and slip back from 34 to 45.

The change will be vitally important to clubs who finish lower on the ladder such as the Brisbane Lions who may risk, for arguments sake, slipping from pick four to five if they acquire an academy graduate late in the previous year's draft.

Carlton might select Jack Silvagni and Bailey Rice under the father-son system this season, but if they owe points the following year those points may be paid in the same round as the bid for those players took place.

The complicated system that allocates points for each draft pick is having the kinks ironed out ahead of its introduction for this year's draft to ensure anomalies are removed.

The stated goals of the system is to be objective and fair, work consistently across all scenarios, flexible enough to facilitate the listing of father-son and academy players and provide incentives for clubs to invest in their academies and select father-son players.

All five Queensland prospects invited to the national draft combine in October are tied to the Brisbane Lions academy, while six of the seven New South Wales/ACT players are attached to Greater Western Sydney’s academy zone.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Carryover bidding points will be deducted from our third rounder in the following year, rather than the first rounder.

It's good news Beng. Can go hard at academy kids without affecting our ability to nab elite first round talent the next year.

 

[iBeng]

Ah, that actually makes sense somewhat now...So if we match a bid with a third rounder, we lose points off NEXT seasons third rounder, NOT next seasons first pick.

 

[jackess]

Carryover bidding points will be deducted from our third rounder in the following year, rather than the first rounder.

It's good news Beng. Can go hard at academy kids without affecting our ability to nab elite first round talent the next year.

I thought it was if a bid in the third round forced us into debt our third round pick the following year would be pushed back.

From this paragraph

Any points incurred for these later round players can be repaid in the round the bid is received, after the AFL tweaked its new set of rules so that a first-round draft position was only altered if a bid came in the previous year’s first round.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I thought it was if a bid in the third round forced us into debt our third round pick the following year would be pushed back.

From this paragraph

Any points incurred for these later round players can be repaid in the round the bid is received, after the AFL tweaked its new set of rules so that a first-round draft position was only altered if a bid came in the previous year’s first round.

Ah, fair enough.

 

[Panthera]

Keays talked up big time by Shifter Sheehan; inside ball winning quality, big bodied left footer with zip around the contest. Then Wallace pops him up to #9 in in Top 20

 

[Ironmonger]

I thought it was if a bid in the third round forced us into debt our third round pick the following year would be pushed back.

From this paragraph

Any points incurred for these later round players can be repaid in the round the bid is received, after the AFL tweaked its new set of rules so that a first-round draft position was only altered if a bid came in the previous year’s first round.

That is such an important change.

Without that change, then as things were if we'd taken both Andrews and Dawson last year then we'd have downgraded from pick 1 to 2 in the next draft, as I understand it.

Obviously this has come about due to some belated lobbying by the QLD/NSW clubs, so kudos to them.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

That is such an important change.

Without that change, then as things were if we'd taken both Andrews and Dawson last year then we'd have downgraded from pick 1 to 2 in the next draft, as I understand it.

Obviously this has come about due to some belated lobbying by the QLD/NSW clubs, so kudos to them.

That's a great example, and an important change. Good safe guard for the lower rated players

 

[iBeng]

But wait, theres more changes!
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-12/afl-closes-draft-bidding-system-loophole

THE AFL has closed a possible loophole in its new bidding system that will stop clubs from being able to trade out early picks and start matching bids for top-rated players with late draft selections.

Under the system presented to clubs in May, there was no maximum deficit and no rule blocking clubs from trading out early picks and then beginning to match a bid with a late pick.

It would have allowed the Brisbane Lions, for example, to trade away their second and third-round drafts picks this year and then use a fourth-round pick to start matching early bids on academy pair Ben Keays and Eric Hipwood.
Both of the Lions' zone prospects are likely to attract first-round bids from rivals.

However the introduction of the ability to trade future draft picks has seen the AFL look more closely at its points-based bidding system for father-son and academy players and iron out some anomalies.

It has led to the AFL setting a points deficit limit for clubs bidding on father-son and academy players.

The limit will be set at 1723 points, which is the equivalent of the group of picks that will be assigned to the premiership team each year: selections No.18, 36, 54 and 72.

If a team trades future draft picks in or out, their deficit limit will be altered according to how many selections they hold.
For instance, if a team acquires an extra first-round pick for the following year they have a deficit limit of 2708 points (the standard 1723 plus 985 points, the value for pick No.18).

Conversely if a club trades out its future second-round pick, it will have a deficit limit of 1221 points (1723 minus 502 points, the value for pick No.36).
The move guarantees academy clubs will pay back their deficit in one year and cannot access future picks two years down the line compared to every other club's access to just one draft into the future.

It also ensures clubs will not be allowed to take their points debt into the following year's draft on a consistent basis, which could have seen them be in a never-ending cycle of owing points for highly-rated players.

AFL.com.au reported last week about the other major change to the bidding system, which saw the AFL decide that clubs matching late bids for academy or father-son picks would not risk pushing back their first selection the next year if they owed points.
Instead, they will be able to pay back the remaining points in the same round that the bid came.

The AFL confirmed this week the 2015 NAB AFL Draft will be staged in Adelaide on November 24, and it is confident the app it is building with Champion Data to simplify the bidding system will be ready for draft night.

It is exploring ways to further liven up the night, with the possibility of a new format for the calling of each selection

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Be interesting to know who's agitating these changes. We might have our suspicions.

 

[iBeng]

It mostly makes sense now Ive read it 15 times. We cant purposly trade out our 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks to allow us to pay 5th round plus to match a first round bid. But then it starts talking about future picks and rankings and whats worth what when weighted and swapped to the past first round picks in the future and AAAARGH MY HEAD HURTS.