Rumour Adelaide Crows camp

[Festerz]

Many Crows fans on this forum certainly owe Caro and McClure an apology for saying they were lying about what happened at the camp.

Yes. But to be fair when you have the leaders of your club, both on and off field saying nothing happened, backed by local radio, Channel 7 News and sports reporters in the main daily newspaper then maybe they were entitled to believe what BS they were being spun - that it was all a media beat up from Melbourne based journos who hate the Crows.

That's the way it rolls in Adelaide. As Gerard Whateley Healey said yesterday, the SA media, many of them signed up 'Ambassadors' of the Adelaide Football Club are happy to run a protection racket for the Crows, because. the Adelaide Crows are the biggest sporting organisation in this town and just about every major medium-small business headquartered in the state are corporate sponsors/supporters of the Crows. The Adelaide football Club is networked into every aspect of corporate and government life in SA. FFS at the time the Crows' Camp happened their board included the Deputy Commissioner of SA Police, the head of the largest banking operation, the Federal Member for Adelaide and the head of the SA Public Service.

The current Chair of the Crows is a former Premier who resigned from office because he misled Parliament on a business deal and who has not uttered one bloody word on the camp scandal since Eddie Betts made his new revelations.

Nah, I don't blame the crow supporters at all. Especially after the infamous External Review conducted in 2019 by Jason Dunstall which the then Crows CEO ensured them 'left no stone unturned' in addressing issues at the club and improving their operations.

Football review finalised

Adelaide has completed a thorough and wide-ranging review of its football department

www.afc.com.au

And still just a few days ago after the Eddie Betts story, former Crow player, current Board Member and radio show host and Fox commentator Mark Ricciuto simply says that 'things weren't perfect and he hopes Eddie can 'get over it'.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

Safework found no wrong doing.... It would be interesting what they were actually told. The AFLPA have stated they are hearing things for the first time, no reason to think that wouldn't also apply to Safework SA.

Take the revelation from Jenkins latest comments & Betts book about being promised what you are telling a counsellor would be kept private, to then have that yelled back at you in an abusive, demeaning nature in front of the entire playing group. Thats not only a gross breach of your privacy, its actually illegal.

I wonder if Safework SA could only investigate what happened in SA. The camp was in Qld. Is what happened there outside of their juristiction? So they investigate what occurred in SA which really wasn't where the damage was done and found nothing wrong. Would their QLD counterparts have the same findings?

 

[StillAtLarge]

Yup. I've see hostage videos more convincing than those "testimonials".

I don't even think they were testimonials, just what the players quickly scribbled on the signed jumper/s

 

[Festerz]

I wonder if Safework SA could only investigate what happened in SA. The camp was in Qld. Is what happened there outside of their juristiction? So they investigate what occurred in SA which really wasn't where the damage was done and found nothing wrong. Would their QLD counterparts have the same findings?

SafeWork SA has the power to investigate the workplace practices of any organisation that operates in SA and the health and safety practices on their employees wherever they occur.

Safework SA DID investigate the camp. They found nothing occurred which broke the SA Work Health and Safety Act which imho is un-feckin believable. They have refused to release any details of their investigation for confidentiality reasons so we are unable to know how they reached that conclusion.

Section 31 of the SA Work, Health and Safety Act gives Safework SA the power to investigate and take legal action against employers who act recklessly or with indifference that exposes an individual to a risk of death or serious injury or illness. SafeworkSA has stated many times publicly that this provision includes psychological harm from bullying as well as physical harm.

The whole thing is a classic clusterfeck of indifference and incompetence.

 

[western royboy]

SafeWork SA has the power to investigate the workplace practices of any organisation that operates in SA and the health and safety practices on their employees wherever they occur.

Safework SA DID investigate the camp. They found nothing occurred which broke the SA Work Health and Safety Act which imho is un-feckin believable. They have refused to release any details of their investigation for confidentiality reasons so we are unable to know how they reached that conclusion.

Section 31 of the SA Work, Health and Safety Act gives Safework SA the power to investigate and take legal action against employers who act recklessly or with indifference that exposes an individual to a risk of death or serious injury or illness. SafeworkSA has stated many times publicly that this provision includes psychological harm from bullying as well as physical harm.

The whole thing is a classic clusterfeck of indifference and incompetence.

Put simply it needs to be reviewed all parties - particularly given we now know that some people were forbidden from disclosing the truth - it will continue to fester until the truth is known

 

[matthew_s]

Riccuito seems to have done as much damage to his footy club he played for like Hird did for Essendon.

It's mind boggling he still has a very high profile role inside the AFC.

Surely it's untenable even further for him to stay after this week's revelations.

Give it a year or 2 and Hird will be back at Essendon. Riccuito will still be at the crows and talking s**t on fox footy.

 

[Proper Gander]

Yeah the fact that they aren't actual professionals means they probably cannot be done for violating any professional codes. But does any of what they did potentially cross over into practising medicine without being a doctor - whatever the legal term for that is?

Actually impersonating a Doctor is a particular offence. I think this would probably more fall in the ballpark of misleading and deceptive conduct, which is a big deal of itself.

There is a part of the JJ statement that seems to have been missed. He claims, and I believe him, that the ‘professional’ who conducted his counselling session betrayed confidential information to disclose to many and use at the camp.

He also says that the abuse levelled at him contained references to incidents and things within the club - which means that these people canvassed the club to talk about the players and their behaviours, which was also used in this bizarre ritual.

The whole thing is amazing. And awful

 

[woopy doo]

Roo was a great player, albeit with similar IQ levels to Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

. Let’s be honest, he’d struggle to have a positive impact on the Waikerie FC committee. It’s a reflection of his IQ that he thinks he can help run an AFL club AND hold a media position at the same time.

 

[fs88]

What would constitute proper closure for the players? I'd say at least a cash settlement given that those involved haven't lost their position or suffered in any way. Surely the most affected would try for a class action otherwise this will eat away at them forever without proper closure.

What a crock of sh!t and low bar this is.. Collingwood are 17th to 2nd from last to this year, McRae could start a side hustle lol

 

[western royboy]

Actually impersonating a Doctor is a particular offence. I think this would probably more fall in the ballpark of misleading and deceptive conduct, which is a big deal of itself.

There is a part of the JJ statement that seems to have been missed. He claims, and I believe him, that the ‘professional’ who conducted his counselling session betrayed confidential information to disclose to many and use at the camp.

He also says that the abuse levelled at him contained references to incidents and things within the club - which means that these people canvassed the club to talk about the players and their behaviours, which was also used in this bizarre ritual.

The whole thing is amazing. And awful

The whole affair is totally unethical, it is a breach of confidence and a betrayal of the players. I would think that anyone involved from the hierarchy of the Crows would be gone by now and as for the provider…

 

[kickazz]

Last night Gerard Whatley suggested the crows have too much clout in SA, to the point of affecting the integrity of sports journalism in that state and it's ability to objectively report on the crows.

I know Roo had a regular radio spot, was he taking about that? Sounds like dissent gets quashed there a bit.

It was a big call to make, anyone know any more about this, any SA folk have an opinion?

 

[western royboy]

What would constitute proper closure for the players? I'd say at least a cash settlement given that those involved haven't lost their position or suffered in any way. Surely the most affected would try for a class action otherwise this will eat away at them forever without proper closure.

What a crock of sh!t and low bar this is.. Collingwood are 17th to 2nd from last to this year, McRae could start a side hustle lol

View attachment 1468240

Closure is just a word, if you are genuinely affected by events of the past, there is no such thing. Money may make things a bit easier for you in some areas, but it doesn’t mean the nightmares or the flashbacks or being triggered by something else sends you off mentally stops because of it.

There are some new techniques around, EMDR and some trials using ecstasy to try and desensitise your memory, I’ve tried EMDR with ok results but not a cure all.

With financial settlements usually come NDA’s and the legalistic nature means that the people who should be doing the apologising rarely do other than pathetic worded statements. They lack genuine empathy so your left only semi satisfied. You can’t undo what is done, but from my experience a lack of genuine understanding of the hurt caused and a failure to make a genuine attempt to show contrition leaves you constantly feeling disappointed and let down by the system. When I heard Josh Jenkins read that statement last night, it took me straight back to the bad place regarding my own situation. No comparison in situations, but the cover up and feeling of being let down by the people who should of protected you is exactly the same. So I hope they take them to court, because to financially hurt them is probably the best they can hope for. Closure…to paraphrase Red from shawshank redemption, “Closure..to me that’s just a made up word”

 

[western royboy]

Last night Gerard Whatley suggested the crows have too much clout in SA, to the point of affecting the integrity of sports journalism in that state and it's ability to objectively report on the crows.

I know Roo had a regular radio spot, was he taking about that? Sounds like dissent gets quashed there a bit.

It was a big call to make, anyone know any more about this, any SA folk have an opinion?

Steven Rowe said on 5AA the other night that he feels like that he’s been played ie. told a bullshit story and asked to get it out into the ether whilst s**t canning anyone who said differently. Pretty big statement.

 

[Festerz]

Last night Gerard Whatley suggested the crows have too much clout in SA, to the point of affecting the integrity of sports journalism in that state and it's ability to objectively report on the crows.

I know Roo had a regular radio spot, was he taking about that? Sounds like dissent gets quashed there a bit.

It was a big call to make, anyone know any more about this, any SA folk have an opinion?

I think I covered my opinions here in an earlier post:

That's the way it rolls in Adelaide. As Gerard Whateley said yesterday, the SA media, many of them signed up 'Ambassadors' of the Adelaide Football Club are happy to run a protection racket for the Crows, because. the Adelaide Crows are the biggest sporting organisation in this town and just about every major medium-small business headquartered in the state are corporate sponsors/supporters of the Crows. The Adelaide football Club is networked into every aspect of corporate and government life in SA. FFS at the time the Crows' Camp happened their board included the Deputy Commissioner of SA Police, the head of the largest banking operation, the Federal Member for Adelaide and the head of the SA Public Service.

The current Chair of the Crows is a former Premier who resigned from office because he misled Parliament on a business deal and who has not uttered one bloody word on the camp scandal since Eddie Betts made his new revelations.

But on the issue of the camp let me put it this way..

The Adelaide Crows camp is the biggest off field story in the AFL right now and it has been brewing for 4 years with repeated rumours and allegations of what have happened that have all now been subsequently confirmed by participants in that camp. THIS was the story that any sporting journalist in Australia should have given their eye teeth to get a hold of.

Ask yourself why it was down to two Melbourne based journalists (Sam McClure and Caroline Wilson) to break this story wide open and pursue it relentlessly for every one of those four years rather than any journalist or media outlet in South Australia? The poor Crow fans continuously being told by the club and the local media that there was nothing to see here and ti was all a witch hunt by out of touch Victorian journos with chips on their shoulders.

Ask yourself why one of those Melbourne based journalists for the Age (Sam McClure) was awarded a Quill Award for his efforts in uncovering the camp scandal and then had that award stripped from him with NewsCorp papers (Adelaide Advertiser and the Herald Sun) being the first newspapers to break the news that it had happened? How and Why did that happen without any due process? The award was subsequently re-awarded to McClure after the Melbourne Press Club found they had broken their own bloody rules in taking it from him - but why did they do it and why so quickly?

Ask yourself why Eddie Betts and Josh Jenkins went to Melbourne reporters to express their concerns about what happened at the camp instead of trusting their concerns with any Adelaide media outlet or their former friends and team-mates who dominate AFL journalism in SA?

Ask yourself why even this week Five AA Football program hosts Steven Rowe, Mark Bickley and Graham Cornes (all former Crow players/coach) are in denial about what happened at the Camp and unwilling to criticise their former team mate, friend and current Adelaide Crow Board member Mark Ricciuto for his role in the saga?

Why was it down to the victims of that disgraceful camp to have to come out publicly and release books and statements about their experience before anyone in the media in SA took the matter seriously.

I could go on but I think you get the picture.

EDIT:

To be clear, it should not be any surprise that in a relatively small state/city with just 2 AFL teams that the local sporting media should be over-represented with former players and officials from the team that has the longest history in the AFL competition. It is also no surprise that the stunning success of the Adelaide Crows in the late 1990s as Port entered the national competition would see them capture the far greater share of supporters and corporate sponsors than the newer team. This grounding has provided a base for continuing commercial success that far exceeds the other team that emerged from the SANFL competition.

But what I think Whateley is alluding to with his ' protection racket' comments (a term also used by Michael Warner in his 'Boys Club' book about the AFL) is how that success and support has somehow found its way into an unhealthy aligning of the 'Brand' of the Adelaide Crows with the commercial and business interests of the State - including media interests.

His concerns, and mine, has nothing to do with the supporters, players and most employees of the Crows who have helped make it into one of the successful clubs in the AFL and an important part of the sporting fabric of this state. But rather how those supporters, players and staff have been continually let down by those who are more interested in 'brand protection' than transparency and integrity. And given the AFL's controlling stake in the Crows (and the same with Port Adelaide) that is a blight on AFL House (and Adelaide establishment son Gillon McLachlan) as well.

Apols for the War and Peace essay. I think your question deserved a comprehensive answer.

 

[1991firstgamer]

If they willingly participated in these things then cried like babies afterwards then they truly were mentally weak and got what they deserved
Should have dished out some fists on the day
End of story

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[Post padding]

Has Rowey weighed in?

With his son facing the chop I suggest Rowey would be very selective in what he says If anything at all


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[Festerz]

If they willingly participated in these things then cried like babies afterwards then they truly were mentally weak and got what they deserved
Should have dished out some fists on the day
End of story

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

Do you read books?

I highly recommend reading Eddie Betts' latest book. It's also available in audiobook form if you are unable to read. You really only need to read one chapter of the book if you have a limited attention span.

And/or you can read Josh Jenkins statement. Or listen to it on the SEN website.

It will give you an understanding of what happened and its impacts.

Then you can comment from a basis of actually knowing wtf you are talking about.

End of story.

 

[1991firstgamer]

Do you read books?

I highly recommend reading Eddie Betts' latest book. It's also available in audiobook form if you are unable to read. You really only need to read one chapter of the book

It will give you an understanding of what happened and its impacts.

Then you can comment from a basis of knowing wtf you are talking about.

End of story.

Yes I read sanctimonious a****
The thing with reading is you can give some of the story , your interpretation of the story and make your own conclusions.

You can also read about the players that loved the camp.

If you can't read it's available in podcasts .

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

 

[Post padding]

Last night Gerard Whatley suggested the crows have too much clout in SA, to the point of affecting the integrity of sports journalism in that state and it's ability to objectively report on the crows.

I know Roo had a regular radio spot, was he taking about that? Sounds like dissent gets quashed there a bit.

It was a big call to make, anyone know any more about this, any SA folk have an opinion?

SA has always had a shady underbelly.

Certain professional people that are linked to certain rumours.

The one newspaper town would never report any of those rumours

Some of those names have strong links to high profile sporting clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1991firstgamer]

SA has always had a shady underbelly.

Certain professional people that are linked to certain rumours.

The one newspaper town would never report any of those rumours

Some of those names have strong links to high profile sporting clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh dear.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

 

[philthy05]

Amazing that there’s still crows fans defending the camp.

 

[fs88]

Closure is just a word, if you are genuinely affected by events of the past, there is no such thing. Money may make things a bit easier for you in some areas, but it doesn’t mean the nightmares or the flashbacks or being triggered by something else sends you off mentally stops because of it.

There are some new techniques around, EMDR and some trials using ecstasy to try and desensitise your memory, I’ve tried EMDR with ok results but not a cure all.

With financial settlements usually come NDA’s and the legalistic nature means that the people who should be doing the apologising rarely do other than pathetic worded statements. They lack genuine empathy so your left only semi satisfied. You can’t undo what is done, but from my experience a lack of genuine understanding of the hurt caused and a failure to make a genuine attempt to show contrition leaves you constantly feeling disappointed and let down by the system. When I heard Josh Jenkins read that statement last night, it took me straight back to the bad place regarding my own situation. No comparison in situations, but the cover up and feeling of being let down by the people who should of protected you is exactly the same. So I hope they take them to court, because to financially hurt them is probably the best they can hope for. Closure…to paraphrase Red from shawshank redemption, “Closure..to me that’s just a made up word”

Well said, those who orchestrated it haven't suffered anything from it so unfortunately financial is the only way.

 

[fs88]

Amazing that there’s still crows fans defending the camp.

Similar to Essendon/peptides, Trump/election, and the antivaxxers etc. All with something genuinely wrong with their brain. If WC did this I would be genuinely ashamed.

 

[philthy05]

Lol at the media starting off every story about the camp with “you can’t penalise Adelaide cause everyone, nearly everyone that was there has left”

I’ve heard that repeated word for word a dozen times in the last two days. Obvious directive from aflHQ or what?

Why can’t you penalise Adelaide for something they did wrong?

If hypothetically Carlton cheated the cap last year, but some of the staff have left this year, does that mean they shouldn’t be punished?

The crows weren’t really punished when it first came out, why would they escape penalty now that it’s evident not only are they guilty of all the crappy camp stuff but a horrific cover up as well?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I think I covered my opinions here in an earlier post:



But on the issue of the camp let me put it this way..

The Adelaide Crows camp is the biggest off field story in the AFL right now and it has been brewing for 4 years with repeated rumours and allegations of what have happened that have all now been subsequently confirmed by participants in that camp. THIS was the story that any sporting journalist in Australia should have given their eye teeth to get a hold of.

Ask yourself why it was down to two Melbourne based journalists (Sam McClure and Caroline Wilson) to break this story wide open and pursue it relentlessly for every one of those four years rather than any journalist or media outlet in South Australia? The poor Crow fans continuously being told by the club and the local media that there was nothing to see here and ti was all a witch hunt by out of touch Victorian journos with chips on their shoulders.

Ask yourself why one of those Melbourne based journalists for the Age (Sam McClure) was awarded a Quill Award for his efforts in uncovering the camp scandal and then had that award stripped from him with NewsCorp papers (Adelaide Advertiser and the Herald Sun) being the first newspapers to break the news that it had happened? How and Why did that happen without any due process? The award was subsequently re-awarded to McClure after the Melbourne Press Club found they had broken their own bloody rules in taking it from him - but why did they do it and why so quickly?

Ask yourself why Eddie Betts and Josh Jenkins went to Melbourne reporters to express their concerns about what happened at the camp instead of trusting their concerns with any Adelaide media outlet or their former friends and team-mates who dominate AFL journalism in SA?

Ask yourself why even this week Five AA Football program hosts Steven Rowe, Mark Bickley and Graham Cornes (all former Crow players/coach) are in denial about what happened at the Camp and unwilling to criticise their former team mate, friend and current Adelaide Crow Board member Mark Ricciuto for his role in the saga?

Why was it down to the victims of that disgraceful camp to have to come out publicly and release books and statements about their experience before anyone in the media in SA took the matter seriously.

I could go on but I think you get the picture.

EDIT:

To be clear, it should not be any surprise that in a relatively small state/city with just 2 AFL teams that the local sporting media should be over-represented with former players and officials from the team that has the longest history in the AFL competition. It is also no surprise that the stunning success of the Adelaide Crows in the late 1990s as Port entered the national competition would see them capture the far greater share of supporters and corporate sponsors than the newer team. This grounding has provided a base for continuing commercial success that far exceeds the other team that emerged from the SANFL competition.

But what I think Whateley is alluding to with his ' protection racket' comments (a term also used by Michael Warner in his 'Boys Club' book about the AFL) is how that success and support has somehow found its way into an unhealthy aligning of the 'Brand' of the Adelaide Crows with the commercial and business interests of the State - including media interests.

His concerns, and mine, has nothing to do with the supporters, players and most employees of the Crows who have helped make it into one of the successful clubs in the AFL and an important part of the sporting fabric of this state. But rather how those supporters, players and staff have been continually let down by those who are more interested in 'brand protection' than transparency and integrity. And given the AFL's controlling stake in the Crows (and the same with Port Adelaide) that is a blight on AFL House (and Adelaide establishment son Gillon McLachlan) as well.

Apols for the War and Peace essay. I think your question deserved a comprehensive answer.

The fact that former Crows captain Chris McDermott got kicked off of Adelaide radio for not being Crowey enough says it all..