Adelaide's Scoring Shots

[Vader]

Several comments on the "Is Knights Selfish?" thread have got me thinking.

Over the last few years (2007-2008), very few of our scoring shots seemed to come from general play. Hopefully someone will come up with the figures to back me on this. It seemed to me that we were always looking for a marking target inside the F50, rarely finding one, and refusing to take a shot from the field otherwise. It was a classic example of the risk averse playing style which was holding us back from being successful.

This year, things have been different. The likes of Knights & Dangermouse have seen us kicking a LOT of goals from general play. Don't get me wrong, we still prefer to take a set shot when possible, but we no longer seem averse to having a shot when no marking targets are open.

Is this something that the club has worked on? Are they getting players to take more responsibility for scoring from general play, in which case Knights' seemingly selfish behaviour might actually be the result of direct instructions from the coaching staff.

Is it just a result of our more attacking mindset? No longer are we working the ball forward at a glacial pace. Today the ball comes into the F50 much faster, giving everyone greater opportunities to contribute.

I think that it's an inherently good thing that we are no longer reliant upon taking set shots to kick a winning score. I'm just curious as to how this change has come about.

 

[WALL-e]

Players with the ability to kick it 60 on the run will allow this. Knights and Danger forward help.

 

[Riggy1]

this is from 2008 for us

Set shot 170.125
on run 61.40
snap 50.50
mark play on 14.13
off ground 6.7

and for distances
<15 47.10
15-30 66.31
31-40 72.75
41-50 96.84
>50 20.35

I cant find anything for this year though. SOrry

 

[Vader]

Thanks for that Riggy. Figures for 2008 are a helpful start.

So..
Set Shots: 55%
On Run: 18.8%
Snap: 18.7%
Mark Play On: 5%
Off Ground: 2.4%

Well over half our scoring shots in 2008 came from set shots. I'd be very interested to see the figures from 2007 & 2009.

 

[Sekaj]

this is from 2008 for us

Set shot 170.125
on run 61.40
snap 50.50
mark play on 14.13
off ground 6.7

and for distances
<15 47.10
15-30 66.31
31-40 72.75
41-50 96.84
>50 20.35

I cant find anything for this year though. SOrry

Where are these figures from?

 

[Riggy1]

Where are these figures from?

page 630-631 of the book

AFL RECORD SEASON GUIDE 2009

I have 2003 and 2004 stats as well if need be

 

[Vader]

Bonus! Thanks for that.. I have the 2008 book in front of me, so I can add the 2007 stats.

Set Shots: 172.98 (55%)
On Run: 54.44 (20%)
Snap: 39.44 (16.9%)
Mark Play On: 15.12 (5.5%)
Off Ground: 5.5 (2.6%)

Once again.. 55% set shots.

It's in the "Scoring Shots by Attempt Type" section. That's pg 617 in the 2008 guide book.

 

[smoovy]

I agree Vader. Without having the stats in front of me you would have to assume that we are kicking a much higher % of goals on the run.

It was something I was critical of last year. Rarely did we have a midfielder who was running into goal from outside 50 or breaking the 50m line and slotting them from 30-40m.

Midfielders kicking goals is the key to kicking big scores.

 

[cmndstab]

I always recall in the 03 season when I started watching footy on TV more regularly that plenty of our midfielders would burst through the 50m line and kick long goals. Ricciuto, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, all used to do it alot. I always wonder why we don't do it more often. You'll often see a player at 45m try to spot up a target under pressure rather than just kick to goal. It doesn't seem to be any less of a risk to me.

Doughty's running forward and bombing a couple of goals was old-school Crows to my eyes. I remember when they first introduced the 9-point super goal in the preseason cup thinking it would be great because the Crows regularly just bombed it long from outside 50 to goal.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Another good thread Vader. Think you are spot on.

Craig has preached for years that he doesn't want us to 'always look for the perfect play' and it seems this is finally being demonstrated. Put simply, Walker and Douglas would not have kicked those audacious checkside goals against the Bombers in any other season. There does seem to be more of a license given.

Players are more prepared to shoot from angles too. I love that when we take a mark now we simply go back, take our time and slot the goal. Previously there would have been 25 seconds of stuttering, hesitating, looking for pass options, second-guessing before a final, token rushed shot at goal in the last 5 seconds. See Bock's match-losing shot at goal versus the Bulldogs in Round 1 last year for evidence of this.

I've also thought for a while that the 'hot spot' is the biggest myth in football. For every big grab or crumbed goal you get from the long bomb to the hot spot there are 10 that get swept away and rebounded by the defenders being set up with extra numbers down back. Much better to run the extra yard or two and go for home yourself.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I've also thought for a while that the 'hot spot' is the biggest myth in football. For every big grab or crumbed goal you get from the long bomb to the hot spot there are 10 that get swept away and rebounded by the defenders being set up with extra numbers down back. Much better to run the extra yard or two and go for home yourself.

Very true, if the movement into the forward is slow/indecisive.

Conversely, it's hard for mids to kick heaps of goals if we primarily gain possession from rebounding footy with extra numbers (ie the mids) set up well behind the ball.

I think we are rectifying this thru a more balanced combo of quicker ball movement with more 'play-on', playing an aggressive midfield zone when possible rather than simply more numbers in defence (though obviously it's a risk if opposition get thru quickly), and pushing the right personnel further up the ground (Knights, Mackay and this week Reilly, Goodwin) to ensure long penetrating kicking at goal or to deep forwards rather than simply loading up most of these types of players across half back/defensive wing.

 

[Ferris_rules]

good points

 

[Coopers]

Anecdotally - it seems we are kicking far more goals this year from on, or behind the 50m line.

I don't know if Vince (for example) has slotted one from less than 40 out.

 

[hippyhippy]

i've noticed alot more long goals this year also, could it be that Craig has finally given a license to the younger guys to do this? or could it be that we have alot more younger players capable of this?

also btw, anyone notice that tippet cant kick from >50m ? which is strange for a big man, maybe he doesnt know how to put his weight behind the ball?

 

[spexau]

also btw, anyone notice that tippet cant kick from >50m ? which is strange for a big man, maybe he doesnt know how to put his weight behind the ball?

He can it's just that his set shot technique doesn't allow for it. On the run though I have no doubt he could kick 50+ easily. His first goal against Richmond a few weeks ago was on the run and he dobbed it through from just on the 50 easily. It's not a huge concern though because most of his set shots come from marks around the 30-40m mark anyway.

 

[arrowman]

i've noticed alot more long goals this year also, could it be that Craig has finally given a license to the younger guys to do this? or could it be that we have alot more younger players capable of this?

I don't know about "finally", I think it's just a stage in the development of the team. (Same way that our supposed major game plan change after round 7 wasn't as radical as some commentators think)

I love it that we've got Knights, Vince etc running through 50 and kicking on the run. These are the bonus goals - the goals that defences can't stop, that win games. The goals that Roo and Goody used to kick for us in their heyday. I think this is a VERY important development.

I would be very surprised if our 2009 stats don't show a major change over 2008 in this area.

also btw, anyone notice that tippet cant kick from >50m ? which is strange for a big man, maybe he doesnt know how to put his weight behind the ball?

It seems to me that The Tipster has a sort of relaxed, "slinging" kicking action, similar in some ways to Franklin but without the same ability to "sling" it 50+ metres. Very accurate but best he stays inside 40

To the guys who have the AFL book - is it possible you could tell us the 2008 stats for Geelong and Hawthorn? Might make an interesting benchmark.

 

[Vader]

To the guys who have the AFL book - is it possible you could tell us the 2008 stats for Geelong and Hawthorn? Might make an interesting benchmark.

I have the 2009 book at home, will get back to you on that tonight (unless someone beats me to it). I can. however, give you their stats for 2007 (from the 2008 book).

Hawthorn were still only mid-table in 2007, so I'll just do Geelong:
Set Shots: 226.129 (49.4%)
On run: 104.78 (25.3%)
Snap: 69.59 (17.8%)
Mark Play On: 26.19 (6.3%)
Off Ground: 5.3 (1.1%)

So.. 5% fewer scores from set shots, with the difference mostly due to a 5% increase in shots taken on the run. Exactly as expected!

I'd expect Hawthorn to have a fairly high percentage of set shots, noting the presence of Roughead, Williams & Franklin in their forward line.

 

[Riggy1]

To the guys who have the AFL book - is it possible you could tell us the 2008 stats for Geelong and Hawthorn? Might make an interesting benchmark.

Geelong
Set shot-225.126
On run-94.76
snap-68.42
mark play on-38.15
off ground-7.3

Hawthorn
Set shot-222.151
on run-93.51
snap-61.56
mark play on-30.17
off groung-2.6

 

[Riggy1]

I'd expect Hawthorn to have a fairly high percentage of set shots, noting the presence of Roughead, Williams & Franklin in their forward line.

results suprise you?

 

[Vader]

Geelong
Set shot-225.126 50.6%
On run-94.76 24.5%
snap-68.42 15.9%
mark play on-38.15 7.6%
off ground-7.3 1.4%

Hawthorn
Set shot-222.151 54.1%
on run-93.51 20.9%
snap-61.56 17.0%
mark play on-30.17 6.8%
off ground-2.6 1.2%

Percentages added.

results suprise you?

No real surprises there...

Geelong have 5% fewer set shots, as they did in 2007, making up the difference with shots taken from on the run.

Hawthorn kick 54% from set shots, much the same as we did. You'd expect a team with quality marking options in the F50 (Franklin, Roughead, Williams) to have a higher percentage of set shots. I guess they also have the likes of Rioli & Bateman kicking them from the field, so the figure might be marginally lower than expected - but not by much.

The big difference between Hawthorn & us is the number of scoring shots - 373 set shots vs 295 for us. It's all well and good to rely on set shots when you are able to move the ball forward with the fluency they achieved, with strong marking targets on the receiving end of the midfielders' hard work. We had neither the midfield fluency nor the strong marking targets, yet we still relied upon this method of scoring so strongly.

The beauty of our current situation is that we're beginning to have some strong marking options (Tippett, Walker, Stevens, Porplyzia), but we also have the ability to score from general play.

 

[jenny61_99]

It seems to me that The Tipster has a sort of relaxed, "slinging" kicking action, similar in some ways to Franklin but without the same ability to "sling" it 50+ metres. Very accurate but best he stays inside 40

I spoke to Tippets basketball coach (and who is also an AFL tragic) - he thinks his kicking style will improve with experience, unlike some who will never improve (ala Gill).

 

[BACCS]

I spoke to Tippets basketball coach (and who is also an AFL tragic) - he thinks his kicking style will improve with experience, unlike some who will never improve (ala Gill).

Going off topic for a second, did anyone see Gill's report on 7 last night? Was on the subject of long term injuries and how they recuperate. I thought it was alright, interesting little story.