Roast AFL Nepo Babies Rort

[phantom13]

What gets missed a bit with the criticism of the Northern clubs is that, unlike Victoria where you are competing with soccer and basketball for juniors and game growth, in Queensland, we are competing with soccer, basketball AND with Rugby league (the dominant sport) and Rugby Union.

On a club level, St Kilda are competing on a local level with 9 other AFL clubs. In Queensland we have Lions, Suns, Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Cowboys, Reds . . . and a smaller, more dispersed population.

So, my argument is, yes, sort out the F/S stuff (by getting rid of it in my view), sort out the other issues that are wrecking equalization . . . but northern academies need to stay. If it means limiting the academy picks somehow to ensure it doesn't get silly. . .fine, maybe it should be limited to one completely unrestricted academy pick per year (maybe northern clubs will get a streak of luck every now and then, but you will also get years of nothing . . .as per Sydney Swans at the moment . . .they struck gold with Heaney a few years ago and now are having a lean patch) and maybe a restricted pick per year (nominally lower than pick 30 for example).

The biggest impact to the lions current run of luck with players has been F/S, NOT academy. And F/S is not an issue limited to Norther clubs . . .any one of the current clubs could have been lucky enough to strike the gold of the ashcrofts and fletcher. Take those three out of Brisbane and, yes, there are a couple of good academy pick-ups there, but it suddenly does not look anywhere near as great as it is with the additional windfall of those three F/S players.

Or if you want to shut down the academies . . fine . . .but the AFL then needs to put rules in place that stop entitled flop jobs like Nathan Buckley and Baily Smith from wrecking the draft so they can stay at home with their mummy.

Im gonna ignore the Reds cause union... lol.

Vic still has soccer (we actually have 3 vic based A League teams) and Basketball (two Melbourne based teams) so that argument doesnt really stack up.

In reality the academies are funded by the AFL not the Suns or Lions (or Swans etc) and ive already pointed out that the academies should remain but they should purely exist as a pathway and growth tool. If they want the romance then retain the access ala the Father Son but do it with the same change, bid must be matched within x picks not the bullshit points.

Id advocate for removing academy access to players because if the player is good enough then the relevant club will have had 4 or 5 years to ensure they trade up to get the pick for the player anyway but as a minimum if the club is going to have priority access its gotta be for some sort of fair value.

 

[sauce_head]

That doesn't work when:
(a) contracts mean nothing
(b) a pampered pre-draftee makes it known that, if the wrong club dares select them, they will be leaving at the very first opportunity (i.e., after one year). You say . . .don't draft them then?? So we're just expected to accept being put at a disadvantage to the Vic clubs? Countering that is the very reason the academies exist.

Regarding your other point . . . Back your culture? That's an interesting point. If that's the answer . . .what are all the St K folk on this thread complaining about? You're saying there is actually no systemic issue after all, it's all about club culture. Seems that all we needed to do up in sleepy ol' QLD when we had issues was get our culture right (don't worry, we were told that repeatedly and in no uncertain terms as we were languishing at the bottom of the ladder).

And so now, by that argument . . .that's all YOU need to do down St Kilda way as well.

So this whole thread is now null and void?

We've got our culture sorted now up in Brisbane. So you guys just need to go off and work on your culture . . . and all will be fine and dandy once you've got that sorted.

QED

I think it has been explained ad nauseam what our issue is, which is essentially fair access to picks at a fair price. After that the culture arguments can come into play, once a level playing field comes into play.

Now shouldn’t you be off enjoying your grand final win?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ashcroft was a f/s, not an academy pick. And, regardless, he is NOT Victorian. He was born and bread in QLD and was in Gold Coast academy until mid high school (my son played against him). He only moved to Victoria late. F/S is a universal issue. You can not blame an individual clubs for the farce that is F/S

My issue is that they traded the pick that should have been used on Ashcroft , and got Logan Morris with the pick they got back.

 

[NeverEddie]

I think it has been explained ad nauseam what our issue is, which is essentially fair access to picks at a fair price. After that the culture arguments can come into play, once a level playing field comes into play.

Now shouldn’t you be off enjoying your grand final win?

I am. . . at this particular moment (and hopefully for a little while to come).

But, my club, no matter how well it might be going right at the present, has also relatively recently been at the other end of this pineapple. And in a situation that, at the time, did look impossible to overcome. So I'm very much a believer in having a fair system that gets all clubs cycling through good periods and bad.

People will hold varying views on what constitutes a fair system and I'm just putting the case forward for not throwing out the baby with the bath water in relation to situation with the northern clubs. Some might not think they are important to the comp but, really, having viable AFL clubs in the rugby states is pretty important (not to the extent where they need to be perennially at the top of the ladder . . but they do need to have a chance, along with every other club, of getting there).

I'm not against the perennially struggling Vic clubs from getting a fair go. I just don't think it needs to be at the expense of the Northern clubs. There are plenty of other viable and more deserving targets there if you lower your eyes.

 

[NeverEddie]

My issue is that they traded the pick that should have been used on Ashcroft , and got Logan Morris with the pick they got back.

so, what. . .belt the club for being clever? It was within the rules. You can not expect clubs to self regulate (because some might but others will just take full advantage). The AFL needs to set sound rules ( . . . .something they are not very good at overall)

 

[True Believer]

I am. . . at this particular moment (and hopefully for a little while to come).

But, my club, no matter how well it might be going right at the present, has also relatively recently been at the other end of this pineapple. And in a situation that, at the time, did look impossible to overcome. So I'm very much a believer in having a fair system that gets all clubs cycling through good periods and bad.

People will hold varying views on what constitutes a fair system and I'm just putting the case forward for not throwing out the baby with the bath water in relation to situation with the northern clubs. Some might not think they are important to the comp but, really, having viable AFL clubs in the rugby states is pretty important (not to the extent where they need to be perennially at the top of the ladder . . but they do need to have a chance, along with every other club, of getting there).

I'm not against the perennially struggling Vic clubs from getting a fair go. I just don't think it needs to be at the expense of the Northern clubs. There are plenty of other viable and more deserving targets there if you lower your eyes.

What if we throw the Nepo baby out with the bathwater? The problem here is you are only seeing things through Brisbane eyes, and your neighbours down the street keep getting 3 and 4 top 20 draft picks a year, for no good reason other than they are in the north and the AFL has their thumb on the scales for clubs from the North!

I don't expect any AFL club not to exploit the rules that exist to their fullest ability, that is their job. But I do expect those charged with the governance of our game, on behalf of the CLUBS that actually constitute our competition, to establish a set of reasonable rules that are fair to all parties equally. Furthermore, I expect those charged with the governance of our game to enforce those rules without favour, and to adjust the rules if it is obvious that loopholes exist that are being exploited and defeating the purpose of said rules!

 

[crasha301]

That doesn't work when:
(a) contracts mean nothing
(b) a pampered pre-draftee makes it known that, if the wrong club dares select them, they will be leaving at the very first opportunity (i.e., after one year). You say . . .don't draft them then?? So we're just expected to accept being put at a disadvantage to the Vic clubs? Countering that is the very reason the academies exist.

Regarding your other point . . . Back your culture? That's an interesting point. If that's the answer . . .what are all the St K folk on this thread complaining about? You're saying there is actually no systemic issue after all, it's all about club culture. Seems that all we needed to do up in sleepy ol' QLD when we had issues was get our culture right (don't worry, we were told that repeatedly and in no uncertain terms as we were languishing at the bottom of the ladder).

And so now, by that argument . . .that's all YOU need to do down St Kilda way as well.

So this whole thread is now null and void?

We've got our culture sorted now up in Brisbane. So you guys just need to go off and work on your culture . . . and all will be fine and dandy once you've got that sorted.

QED

No one is complaining about culture, everyone is asking ALL teams ( not just northern) to pay a fair and reasonable price for top end talent. It's really not that hard to understand.

We have backed ourselves in recruiting a high number of interstate players so spare the poor me players will go home excuse, all clubs deal with that.

Brisbane have benefited from double dipping, because currently All teams don't have to pay a fair and reasonable price for top end talent.

No one gives a crap if you got a father son or NGA with pick 40, it's when you get a top 5 pick with a bunch of junk picks.

Don't expect to come in here after winning 5 premiership in 25 years playing victim, like the AFL dosent give you northern state teams a massive leg up with all the discounts and ambassador payments outside the cap. Enjoy your AFL made win on Saturday.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

so, what. . .belt the club for being clever? It was within the rules. You can not expect clubs to self regulate (because some might but others will just take full advantage). The AFL needs to set sound rules ( . . . .something they are not very good at overall)

After a lot of late picks in the 00's ( Hawkins, Ablett, etc ) , they fixed the system, but then they were too stupid to realize that the future trading they brought in destroyed their fix.

 

[NeverEddie]

The problem here is you are only seeing things through Brisbane eyes

Am I? . . . . Look, maybe read my last few posts again because, I don't think we are really in that much of a disagreement.

 

[NeverEddie]

No one is complaining about culture, everyone is asking ALL teams ( not just northern) to pay a fair and reasonable price for top end talent. It's really not that hard to understand.

We have backed ourselves in recruiting a high number of interstate players so spare the poor me players will go home excuse, all clubs deal with that.

Brisbane have benefited from double dipping, because currently All teams don't have to pay a fair and reasonable price for top end talent.

No one gives a crap if you got a father son or NGA with pick 40, it's when you get a top 5 pick with a bunch of junk picks.

Don't expect to come in here after winning 5 premiership in 25 years playing victim, like the AFL dosent give you northern state teams a massive leg up with all the discounts and ambassador payments outside the cap. Enjoy your AFL made win Saturday.

Listen I'm trying to be polite and have a reasoned discussion so please do not get shirty.

No, all clubs do not have to deal that. And that's my point.

Has your club ever lost three seasons worth of young high draft picks in one trading period? Has any Vic club?

St Kilda and other similar vic clubs might have some issues that you need to deal with in comparison to the bigger Vic clubs but you also have some big advantages that the northern clubs do not have. And that is what the norther Academies are about redressing. The whole point of the academies is to give us a bit of a leg up so of course the "price" is going to be discounted. If not, they essentially will not do the job they were designed to do.

A lot of people are on here conflating the two things (academies and F/S) together as if they are one and the same and thus unfairly singling out the northern clubs. We got lucky with the F/S (as any club could have). It was nothing to do with the academies . . .it's just helped us win two premierships (as it has previously helped other clubs). If your issue is actually the academies and not the F/S. . .I've made my point about that and I've argued it. They are there for a purpose, it is a legitimate purpose, yes it provides a leg up, but that is the point, leave them alone.

 

[NeverEddie]

ive already pointed out that the academies should remain but they should purely exist as a pathway and growth tool.

By which you mean, Northern Clubs invest all the effort in nurturing and developing them and you guys swoop in and take them in a free for all at draft time. How's that going to work? If that's how its going to be, then just let the AFL come up here and run the academies (I'm sure they wouldn't have a clue what to do). There needs to be some sort of pay off

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm not against the perennially struggling Vic clubs from getting a fair go. I just don't think it needs to be at the expense of the Northern clubs. There are plenty of other viable and more deserving targets there if you lower your eyes.

But you get advantages over us at every opportunity. You team who made a PF in 2022, and premiers in 2024 and 2025 get access to top 5 players before St.Kilda a team that came 13th.

It is an absolute rort that the fake northern clubs are getting this bullshit legup. And dont give me the 'growing the game' garbage. 65% of draftees come from Victoria but the AFL is allowing the growth in its heartland to wither on the vine.

A review into the state of Victorian football by Geoff Walsh was given to Kane and Dillon six months ago with a number of recommendations. Not one has been acted on, nobody knows if it was even looked at. there are clubs and even competitions going out of existence left right and centre but growing the game in a rugby state is apparently more important.

the fact is that is $$$ based for the AFL administrators, they get the fake clubs powerful they can get more in broadcast rights and a bigger bonus. Why do you think a club that won a premiership in 2018 is about to get a rort assistance.

Congratulations on your flags, but you dont deserve either Ashcrofts or this top five NGA pick, it is an absolute disgrace and is corrupt to the core.

 

[crasha301]

Listen I'm trying to be polite and have a reasoned discussion so please do not get shirty.

No, all clubs do not have to deal that. And that's my point.

Has your club ever lost three seasons worth of young high draft picks in one trading period? Has any Vic club?

St Kilda and other similar vic clubs might have some issues that you need to deal with in comparison to the bigger Vic clubs but you also have some big advantages that the northern clubs do not have. And that is what the norther Academies are about redressing. The whole point of the academies is to give us a bit of a leg up so of course the "price" is going to be discounted. If not, they essentially will not do the job they were designed to do.

A lot of people are on here conflating the two things (academies and F/S) together as if they are one and the same and thus unfairly singling out the northern clubs. We got lucky with the F/S (as any club could have). It was nothing to do with the academies . . .it's just helped us win two premierships (as it has previously helped other clubs). If your issue is actually the academies and not the F/S. . .I've made my point about that and I've argued it. They are there for a purpose, it is a legitimate purpose, yes it provides a leg up, but that is the point, leave them alone.

By which you mean, Northern Clubs invest all the effort in nurturing and developing them and you guys swoop in and take them in a free for all at draft time. How's that going to work? If that's how its going to be, then just let the AFL come up here and run the academies (I'm sure they wouldn't have a clue what to do). There needs to be some sort of pay off

Yeah us saints fan get major benefits of being in Vic, like competing against all the other Vic teams for players and getting a real home ground advantage and playing less games at the G then Brisbane did.

How do you not understand that most people don't mind you having academies, the benefit you get from developing the players is that you get priority access to those players.

All we are asking is you pay market value for them. It's pretty simple, however you want star players either through academies or F/S for peanuts whilst then doubling dipping and gaining extra 1st rounders.

 

[phantom13]

By which you mean, Northern Clubs invest all the effort in nurturing and developing them and you guys swoop in and take them in a free for all at draft time. How's that going to work? If that's how its going to be, then just let the AFL come up here and run the academies (I'm sure they wouldn't have a clue what to do). There needs to be some sort of pay off

You do realise they already pay for it anyway. You get an up close and personal look at the kids for 5 years pre draft. You have the biggest inside track on the talent anyway you just want that AND the discount of getting them for next to nothing.

 

[phantom13]

He had a whole thing about competing with union, league, basketball, soccer too but that went quiet real quick when it was pointed out that were minus 1, minus 2, plus 1 and plus 2 with elite level teams for those sports (and honestly union…)

Just dumb reductive arguments, I’d prefer if he was just honest and said “it’s helped and we like it” even Carlton didn’t lie about their desire for Cody Walker

 

[NeverEddie]

You do realise they already pay for it anyway. You get an up close and personal look at the kids for 5 years pre draft. You have the biggest inside track on the talent anyway you just want that AND the discount of getting them for next to nothing.

No, I agree it should not be a free for all for the northern clubs either. But pure pathway is not sufficient pay back. You guys get just as much a look at the Vic kids down your way and don't really have to invest anything into the because the schools do all that. Look, I agree to disagree on that point. There is much less talent up this way, if it gets developed here, there needs to be a way we can keep it up here because if we have to fully rely on talent from Victoria to survive, we wont.

And . . .everyone wants to hate on the Gold Coast, but it has taken more seasons for GC to make finals for the first time than it took the bad news bears. And they finally make it . . .and now the sky is falling in apparently.

 

[NeverEddie]

How do you not understand that most people don't mind you having academies, the benefit you get from developing the players is that you get priority access to those players.

All we are asking is you pay market value for them. It's pretty simple, however you want star players either through academies or F/S for peanuts whilst then doubling dipping and gaining extra 1st rounders.

No I don't want F/S at all. Just academies. I'm arguing there should be a discount (but not expecting it to be for peanuts). Not asking to double dip.

 

[phantom13]

No, I agree it should not be a free for all for the northern clubs either. But pure pathway is not sufficient pay back. You guys get just as much a look at the Vic kids down your way and don't really have to invest anything into the because the schools do all that. Look, I agree to disagree on that point. There is much less talent up this way, if it gets developed here, there needs to be a way we can keep it up here because if we have to fully rely on talent from Victoria to survive, we wont.

Yeh cause you’re not about to get a South Australian from Victoria and a native West Australian in free agency.

 

[NeverEddie]

Yeh cause you’re not about to get a South Australian from Victoria and a native West Australian in free agency.

That's a different issue.

 

[phantom13]

That's a different issue.

I thought you just said you can’t compete for players from Victoria? Seems you don’t have any issue with that.

 

[NeverEddie]

I thought you just said you can’t compete for players from Victoria? Seems you don’t have any issue with that.

Obviously any club who have just won two premierships, have a coach like Fagan and a well regarded culture can compete. But you don't have to drop too far down the ladder for that to evaporate. We have had long periods of being on the nose with players.

The free agency stuff is just a whole other argument.

 

[crasha301]

Obviously any club who have just won two premierships, have a coach like Fagan and a well regarded culture can compete. But you don't have to drop too far down the ladder for that to evaporate. We have had long periods of being on the nose with players.

The free agency stuff is just a whole other argument.

Jesus you move the goal post quickly!

Oh you couldn't get good players to come to you while down the bottom of the ladder

 

[phantom13]

Jesus you move the goal post quickly!

Oh you couldn't get good players to come to you while down the bottom of the ladder

Every single counter just turns into a new argument.

I’d respect him if he just said “I like it so it should stay” no reasonable argument stacks up for it to stay in anything resembling it’s current format.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I like the part when you responded to his argument. Coward.

The delusion is great from these northern nepos.

 

[Mat Mann]

Every single counter just turns into a new argument.

I’d respect him if he just said “I like it so it should stay” no reasonable argument stacks up for it to stay in anything resembling it’s current format.

same argument on a different board but same m.o, every counterargument, they just shift to something else, with he old "it's good for the game" when they can't, It gets exhausting.