AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[RedV3x]

Yeah true it´s old and outdated.

But capacity also. 37k or whatever it is doesn't match their increasing popularity and membership numbers.

And certainly doesn't entertain Olympic levels.

 

[Chief]

Yeah true it´s old and outdated.

But capacity also. 37k or whatever it is doesn't match their increasing popularity and membership numbers.

Maybe. It really only sells out a few games per year from what I recall.

 

[Bjo187]

Maybe. It really only sells out a few games per year from what I recall.

9 of their 12 games this year were sold out and similar last year. The gabba and scg are undersized with the swans and lions popularity these days. I think about 55k for lions, 60k capacity for swans would be about perfect.

 

[Chief]

9 of their 12 games this year were sold out and similar last year. The gabba and scg are undersized with the swans and lions popularity these days. I think about 55k for lions, 60k capacity for swans would be about perfect.

Not sure they do as well in other years.

 

[Bjo187]

Not sure they do as well in other years.

No different to marvel though, you don't have to sellout every game, but you need the capacity to allow for those few times a year that will reach high numbers. The swans were getting in the 50s and 60s at the Olympic stadium nearly 20 years ago and they are a lot more popular now.

Each club could sellout those stadiums a few times a year at those capacities imo.

 

[Hoops]

What are tv ratings from Brisbane for Lions and Broncos this year? Be interesting if someone knew.

Of course nrl never take over Melbourne same way afl will never take over Sydney.

I agree neither will take over but AFL is more likely. AFL in Sydney is way bigger than NRL in Melbourne just as AFL in Melbourne is way bigger than NRL in Sydney.

 

[dave10]

What is this based on? Just your view or a particular data point?

The raw data across 5 years for both codes viewership numbers is fascinating.

The fact Melbourne viewership for the GF between 2020 and this year (both years when the Storm competed), grew from 297k to 529k is pretty huge for the growth of the sport in terms of interest in Victoria. The record crowd for the Prelim is also testament to that.

For the AFL, despite a really poor 2022 for Brisbane tv audiences (which I’m not sure what caused), the growth of the Brisbane audience from 2023 to this year (421k to 456k is also promising).

I live in SEQ and my view is based on what I’ve observed over the week in terms of TV news bulletins, mainstream radio etc.

 

[Philhawk]

In my humble opinion and from doing some work with the Giants up here in Sydney - “traction” at AFL house is defined by 3 high level metrics.

Those include growth in the following areas,

1) TV ratings
2) Crowd growth
3) $$$ spent at club level (not just memberships, but a blend of merch, events and other factors).

Yes, there are other secondary considerations including the growth of the sport at a junior level, but it’s very hard to judge on a year by year basis and more of a 5 year blend.

To go back to the premise of this thread, is there any data to suggest using points 1 and 2 above (3 hard for us to know) - that AFL is growing faster than the NRL in QLD?

 

[Bjo187]

In my humble opinion and from doing some work with the Giants up here in Sydney - “traction” at AFL house is defined by 3 high level metrics.

Those include growth in the following areas,

1) TV ratings
2) Crowd growth
3) $$$ spent at club level (not just memberships, but a blend of merch, events and other factors).

Yes, there are other secondary considerations including the growth of the sport at a junior level, but it’s very hard to judge on a year by year basis and more of a 5 year blend.

To go back to the premise of this thread, is there any data to suggest using points 1 and 2 above (3 hard for us to know) - that AFL is growing faster than the NRL in QLD?

You seem upset by the thought of the games growth in Queensland mate. Why is that? Tv is up, crowds are up and merchandise and memberships are up this year, for both QLD clubs.

It's hard to know if it's faster than the nrl with their bullshit claims on being the biggest tv sport in the country and the likes, how can you trust their figures when their chairman says they get 1 million viewers in Sydney compared to the afl's 23k.

 

[Philhawk]

You seem upset by the thought of the games growth in Queensland mate. Why is that? Tv is up, crowds are up and merchandise and memberships are up this year, for both QLD clubs.

It's hard to know if it's faster than the nrl with their bullshit claims on being the biggest tv sport in the country and the likes, how can you trust their figures when their chairman says they get 1 million viewers in Sydney compared to the afl's 23k.

What part of my comment made you think I’m upset? Stop projecting. I’m purely asking for data driven facts.

 

[GC2015]

9 of their 12 games this year were sold out and similar last year. The gabba and scg are undersized with the swans and lions popularity these days. I think about 55k for lions, 60k capacity for swans would be about perfect.

It's worth pointing out that 4 of 9 home (GC) games for the Suns this year also sold out and the QClash at the Gabba pulled a record 30k crowd while the Lions had a 2-5 record and the Suns were sitting equal 8th on the ladder. It's fair to say both Queensland teams did well in their respective markets this year.

 

[Bjo187]

It's worth pointing out that 4 of 9 home (GC) games for the Suns this year also sold out and the QClash at the Gabba pulled a record 30k crowd while the Lions had a 2-5 record and the Suns were sitting equal 8th on the ladder. It's fair to say both Queensland teams did well in their respective markets this year.

There you go Philhawk , that can help with your data collection.

Storm 25 years in the competition, 10 grand finals and yet only sold out 2 games this year despite sitting on top of the ladder, one being a preliminary final on a public holiday in Melbourne, with zero competition from any other sport in the city, on afl gf eve. They did make the grand final, but as usual with zero Victorians in their team and I think only one Victorian player in their history.

The suns, never played in a final, didn't make finals this year, only been in the competition 14 years and have about 7 gold coast locals in their team currently, also had 4 sellouts this year, in a shorter afl season of 23 games.

 

[Philhawk]

There you go Philhawk , that can help with your data collection.

Storm 25 years in the competition, 10 grand finals and yet only sold out 2 games this year despite sitting on top of the ladder, one being a preliminary final on a public holiday in Melbourne, with zero competition from any other sport in the city, on afl gf eve. They did make the grand final, but as usual with zero Victorians in their team and I think only one Victorian player in their history.

The suns, never played in a final, didn't make finals this year, only been in the competition 14 years and have about 7 gold coast locals in their team currently, also had 4 sellouts this year, in a shorter afl season of 23 games.

… isn’t this thread about Qld? The amount of chest puffing going on in this thread by some is quite bizarre.

 

[Bjo187]

… isn’t this thread about Qld? The amount of chest puffing going on in this thread by some is quite bizarre.

Well you came into the Queensland thread 'chest puffing' about the storm having a prelim final sellout and were asking how it compares to footy in Queensland and asked for some data points as a comparison. I just gave you some data.

 

[jwint43]

It's funny I heard Dwayne talking on radio to the insecure sen Sydney crew the other day and they were all upset about some off the cuff comment robbo made on 360. I had to laugh, it was so embarrassing how upset they actually were about one journo nobody respects down here making a comment.

Anyway Dwayne to appease the frightened children made the comment 'rugby league always has been and always will be the dominant code in nsw'. I thought, hang on, that's bullshit, footy was actually doing well there till some scumbag nsw politician tried to kill it off, for some pommie game instead.

Anyhow on Queensland, hopefully this win supercharges growth up there, the crowd today at Springfield looked superb. I wonder if they intentionally matched it up with a W game? If so, it was very clever and is something other contender clubs should do in the future, when the afl is creating the W fixture.

NRL fans are incredibly insecure. They are so insular and defensive without realising their game will never grow if they don't actually try to expand beyond the heartland. They are quite literally 30 years behind us in this regard. It's genuinely amazing seeing how much Slobbo's offhanded comment set them off and made them have a sook, if only they knew.

They point to ratings while not being able to sell out a grand final, and not realising they have SOO which equates to 3 extra grand finals worth of ratings and also dilutes the relevance of the actual competiton.

They call themselves a national sport but don't have a team in WA or Adelaide.

They average 20,000 people to their games with 0 expansion teams like GWS or GC affecting the numbers. We average 38,000 with GC and GWS.

They couldn't get 20,000 to a final while the Swans sold out the SCG right across the road.

They are constantly comparing themselves to the AFL whilst the AFL doesn't ever bring up the NRL or even think about them. It's a weird obsessive relationship that goes one way.

Our biggest venue is in the middle of the city, there's is an absolute nightmare to get to and has nowhere near the same history or reverence.

There simply isn't the same level of passion and love for the sport and the teams that the AFL seems to have, and that's the easiest way to put it.

 

[Macca180]

NRL fans are incredibly insecure. They are so insular and defensive without realising their game will never grow if they don't actually try to expand beyond the heartland. They are quite literally 30 years behind us in this regard. It's genuinely amazing seeing how much Slobbo's offhanded comment set them off and made them have a sook, if only they knew.

They point to ratings while not being able to sell out a grand final, and not realising they have SOO which equates to 3 extra grand finals worth of ratings and also dilutes the relevance of the actual competiton.

They call themselves a national sport but don't have a team in WA or Adelaide.

They average 20,000 people to their games with 0 expansion teams like GWS or GC affecting the numbers. We average 38,000 with GC and GWS.

They couldn't get 20,000 to a final while the Swans sold out the SCG right across the road.

They are constantly comparing themselves to the AFL whilst the AFL doesn't ever bring up the NRL or even think about them. It's a weird obsessive relationship that goes one way.

Our biggest venue is in the middle of the city, there's is an absolute nightmare to get to and has nowhere near the same history or reverence.

There simply isn't the same level of passion and love for the sport and the teams that the AFL seems to have, and that's the easiest way to put it.

Nailed it. AFL too professional to get into slinging matches. Not interested.

Vlandys is just a true representation of the majority NRL fan base.

Next time you see an NRL fan say 'gayfl' just have a look at them. Every time without fail...complete bogan/**** looking.

 

[jwint43]

um that just stems from an inferiority complex. Success breeds hate and jealously.
NRL fans hate it that AFL is the biggest sport in the country.

AFL fans are secure and just don´t give a ****.

Reminds me of that scene in Mad Men

NRL - "I feel bad for you"

AFL - "I don't think about you at all"

 

[BobbyMorri]

For a sport no one thinks about, there is a lot of NRL talk here.

Even saying "V'ladys" gets some people upset in this thread, to the point where they compare him to Joseph Goebbels..

 

[Bjo187]

NRL fans are incredibly insecure. They are so insular and defensive without realising their game will never grow if they don't actually try to expand beyond the heartland. They are quite literally 30 years behind us in this regard. It's genuinely amazing seeing how much Slobbo's offhanded comment set them off and made them have a sook, if only they knew.

They point to ratings while not being able to sell out a grand final, and not realising they have SOO which equates to 3 extra grand finals worth of ratings and also dilutes the relevance of the actual competiton.

They call themselves a national sport but don't have a team in WA or Adelaide.

They average 20,000 people to their games with 0 expansion teams like GWS or GC affecting the numbers. We average 38,000 with GC and GWS.

They couldn't get 20,000 to a final while the Swans sold out the SCG right across the road.

They are constantly comparing themselves to the AFL whilst the AFL doesn't ever bring up the NRL or even think about them. It's a weird obsessive relationship that goes one way.

Our biggest venue is in the middle of the city, there's is an absolute nightmare to get to and has nowhere near the same history or reverence.

There simply isn't the same level of passion and love for the sport and the teams that the AFL seems to have, and that's the easiest way to put it.

An inferiority complex on a whole other level. It's a bit like Canada to America and nz to Australia, the smaller one really hates the bigger one, the bigger one ambivalent to it.

The robbo, willie mason and then Kane thing was the greatest example we've seen of what you're talking about and it was very predictable.

For a sport no one thinks about, there is a lot of NRL talk here.

Even saying "V'ladys" gets some people upset in this thread, to the point where they compare him to Joseph Goebbels..

I love how these threads about afl growth and positivity bring out the usual suspects, the trolls and lurkers on Bigfooty that hate the thought of the AFL doing well in the northern states. They come in and pump the tyres of their favourite sport to dilute the positivity, then when you respond with some facts, they flip the script and claim you think about their sport too much.. lol, classic .

 

[BobbyMorri]

I love how these threads about afl growth and positivity bring out the usual suspects, the trolls and lurkers on Bigfooty that hate the thought of the AFL doing well in the northern states. They come in and pump the tyres of their favourite sport to dilute the positivity, then when you respond with some facts, they flip the script and claim you think about their sport too much.. lol, classic .

Why does AFL growth have to come from NRL......Why can't both sports grow at the same time.....
(guess that doesn't suit the "war")

and the answer is no to the subject title. Queensland is fairly big and 2 AFL teams do not cover the whole state. Though the AFL is growing, it has 100 years to catch up and well, NRL is also growing or at least hanging around.

It was only 10 years ago when the Brisbane Lions couldn't even get 20K to their matches.

 

[RedV3x]

Why does AFL growth have to come from NRL

Do you mean "Why does AFL growth have to come from NRL heartland"?
Well the AFL is looking at areas to expand it is simple as that.

Why can't both sports grow at the same time

People are people. Only a certain amount of people like sports and they have their preferences
but their preferences are usually skewed by historical factors.
If we go back 160 odd years people had no preferences (as there was no regular organised football), except perhaps gentlemen played cricket.
Then Australians created Australian Football and people largely chose Australian Football and to start playing football regularly in an organised fashion with a football season and a premiership to play for..
In the British Empire rugby was the preferred sport but soccer came from nowhere to zoom past.
In Australia we are spoilt for choice.
If American Football or Gaelic Football was more of realistic choice the more Australians would play those sports too.
IMO why drink beer if you can drink champagne.

Queensland is fairly big and 2 AFL teams do not cover the whole state. Though the AFL is growing,

There are other k.p.i. like participation, attendance, ratings, membership, sponsorship and even "interest" etc.

it has 100 years to catch up to NRL

Which soundly conflicts with your latter statement

It was only 10 years ago when the Brisbane Lions couldn't even get 20K to their matches.

Demonstrating a quick turn of events, 10 years not 100 years.

Saying otherwise is very Victorian

Referring to AFL as "Victorian" is crass and descending into the lowest depths of code wars.
It is extremely offensive to all non-Vixtorians.

It was only 10 years ago when the Brisbane Lions couldn't even get 20K to their matches.

Since their inception in 1997 the Brisbane Lions average attendance has been 24232
So that's a pretty lame attempt at misleading the whole picture or were you just relying on tainted memory ?

 

[BobbyMorri]

Since their inception in 1997 the Brisbane Lions average attendance has been 24232
So that's a pretty lame attempt at misleading the whole picture or were you just relying on tainted memory ?

And they averaged......

under 20K between the years of 2014-18. So my "tainted" memory is great. My english is not great, should have said struggled to get

Instead of denying it, perhaps look at it as a positive. That is the floor for the Brisbane Lions attendances, which isn't too bad.

 

[Angus Young]

I really do hope they get a 50k stadium soon.

Start filling that up would be amazing.

 

[The Educator]

What is this based on? Just your view or a particular data point?

The raw data across 5 years for both codes viewership numbers is fascinating.

The fact Melbourne viewership for the GF between 2020 and this year (both years when the Storm competed), grew from 297k to 529k is pretty huge for the growth of the sport in terms of interest in Victoria. The record crowd for the Prelim is also testament to that.

For the AFL, despite a really poor 2022 for Brisbane tv audiences (which I’m not sure what caused), the growth of the Brisbane audience from 2023 to this year (421k to 456k is also promising).

2020 is a silly base year. NRL had no presence in Melbourne at all because of Covid.

In 2016 the average Melbourne audience was 641K for the NRL GF.

The NRL has pockets of support in Melbourne but mostly is, because of media relationships with News, nine and SEN, has a decent casual support among AFL fans. The best determinate of what the the TV ratings for the Storm will be in Melbourne at prime time is whether there is an AFL game on. I would hazard a guess that the same thing plays out on foxtel / kayo in Melbourne.

There is no real sign of growth and no real evidence of primary supporter base (i.e unlike the Swans in Sydney). And this is a team that has missed the finals once in 22 seasons and that was only because of the Salary cap cheating penalties. They have:
-finished outside the top 3 times in 19 seasons
-minor premiers 9 times in 19 seasons
-5 premierships (inc those not recognised)
-10 times G finalists

Essentially they have the success profile of a top soccer team in an uncapped european soccer league.

If and when (there may never be a when to be fair) they have a down turn, we will get a better look at how well the sport has established itself in Melbourne

 

[RedV3x]

That is the floor for the Brisbane Lions attendances, which isn't too bad.

Yes, they averaged 24232 with many years over 30k despite the Covid years and the poor onfield years.
That's the Brisbane Lions and AFL. The full picture includes Australian Football in Queensland.