Preview AFL Round 1 - Hawthorn v Geelong, MCG, Monday April 6 3.20PM

[Turbocat]

we will never know unless both teams play when fully fit.

We will never know when any team is fully fit , let alone two. Every game, every team has some one less than 100%. Even if they start at 100% , 5 minutes in they will not be. The best we can go with a rudimentary assessment that that their best players are fit and playing. It what Id call fully fit.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Their results are far better than ours of course, and full credit to them for winning the last two flags they have been brilliant.

Hawks haven't even come close to matching our record breaking era! Yes they're on the same number of flags, but they don't come anywhere near our era of dominance.

 

[Footy Smarts]

When?

Last year in finals you had a dream run with form and fitness. Having all of Burgoyne, Hodge, Mitchell, Lake, Gibson and Hale fully fit and all in supreme form in finals was the sort of stuff coaches dream of. I'm sure the planning was top notch but having all 6 players who are the wrong side of 30 fit and in incredible form requires a good slice of luck.

 

[MinerBoy]

Last year in finals you had a dream run with form and fitness. Having all of Burgoyne, Hodge, Mitchell, Lake, Gibson and Hale fully fit and all in supreme form in finals was the sort of stuff coaches dream of. I'm sure the planning was top notch but having all 6 players who are the wrong side of 30 fit and in incredible form requires a good slice of luck.

It's now lucky to have a dream run with form?

I thought that was called playing well i.e. the actual goal of the game.

 

[Turbocat]

Hawks haven't even come close to matching our record breaking era! Yes they're on the same number of flags, but they don't come anywhere near our era of dominance.

Kitty , thats just a who cares stat. In the AFL its the last dance that counts , not the early stuff with the warm up band. Win all the games thru the year ultimately is just like going on a date.... dates don't count. Its going all the way that does.....ie getting married. ( just incase you were thinking something else)

I hate and admire them. Hates probably too strong but their success is obvious to all.
1960 zero Premierships 1971 1 Premierships 2015 12 Premierships...

We need to have another era , just like we have just had to even get close to matching them.

 

[Hello Kitty]

One thing that will be fairly damning on opposition coaches in the AFL this season is if they haven't by now figured out how to dissect Clarksons game plan. Usually top teams in the modern era have had their game plan dissected (to some degree at least) by opposition coaches which limits their ability to have premiership success in consecutive seasons let alone three in a row. First Geelong was meant to be unbeatable following 2007, Clarkos cluster tore us apart in the 2008 Granny before that was torn apart by opposition coaches in 2009/10, then (despite their ultimate lack of premiership success) StKilda was up there with Ross Lyons defensive game plan, Collingwood's forward press was meant to be unbeatable following 2010, before our physical long kicking gamestyle was able to defeat it in 2011. The Hawks have been playing a similar disciplined crowding the contest winning the ball before spotting up targets with short sharp kicking in to the forward line style for 3 years now with 2 flags to show for it but it seems nobody has really been able to tactically dissect it yet....Maybe Hinkley did a bit in last years prelim with Ports breakneck speed football. Anyway for mine that will be an interesting subplot of the 2015 season.

Wow!!! I love your insight, what a super post Blighty! I'm bumping it, deserves to be seen again.

Specifically, we'd have a cracker of a discussion on how we could attempt to break the Dwarf's strategy next Monday -

"The Hawks have been playing a similar disciplined crowding the contest winning the ball before spotting up targets with short sharp kicking in to the forward line style for 3 years now with 2 flags to show for it but it seems nobody has really been able to tactically dissect it yet."

Blighty + everyone, how can Geelong stop the Hawks?

I've post previously that they don't like it when we open up space + that I'd love Kelly to just dedicate himself into tackling the Midget hard. But I'm seriously frothing at the mouth for our clever posters to offer their ideas.


BTW Blighty, there's no need for you to think you have to redeem yourself, you've offered an opinion + this forum is to discuss all sorts of ideas. If anyone has an issue with that then it's of no concern to you. Posters have a reasonable expectation of respect for their thoughts. For some reason a small few believe they need to verbalise every thought they have, mostly negative. I think that those who put others down, demean, belittle + snipe are petty + it says more about their frailties, than those like you, who offer a point of view.

 

[romeoh]

It's now lucky to have a dream run with form?

I thought that was called playing well i.e. the actual goal of the game.

Yep, Hawks well trained and ready to go with the form. Brilliantly done. But lucky with health. And also acknowledge teams make their own luck to a degree but some things are not controllable.
I don't expect you to agree, but if we had been able to field a fit team 2013 prelim-we win.

 

[MinerBoy]

Yep, Hawks well trained and ready to go with the form. Brilliantly done. But lucky with health. And also acknowledge teams make their own luck to a degree but some things are not controllable.
I don't expect you to agree, but if we had been able to field a fit team 2013 prelim-we win.

Perhaps. But it's purely a hypothetical with no basis.

I mean sure the result was close..........but look at the game itself. The domination in inside 50s and scoring shots etc.

You being fit is a what if just like me saying we would have won by plenty if we weren't so wasteful.

Anyway, it is irrelevant to this game anyway and as you say agreement won't be forthcoming so I won't labour it.

I honestly have no idea about this game in question. Do I think we are currently a better team than Geelong? Yes. Do I think that means much when the sides run out this Monday? No, it means precisely shit.

I'd be staggered if it was anything but the usual back and forth, shift in momentum type game we've come to be accustomed too. One side will be in front at the right time.

 

[Partridge]

I honestly have no idea about this game in question. Do I think we are currently a better team than Geelong? Yes. Do I think that means much when the sides run out this Monday? No, it means precisely shit.

I'd be staggered if it was anything but the usual back and forth, shift in momentum type game we've come to be accustomed too. One side will be in front at the right time.

I have to be honest, I can't understand how a Hawthorn fan could approach Geelong games with anything but a positive viewpoint (or anyone else either to be honest). We had a minor run 3-5 years ago where we did well, including a great finals win, but otherwise not sure what you've got to worry about.

 

[romeoh]

Perhaps. But it's purely a hypothetical with no basis.

I mean sure the result was close..........but look at the game itself. The domination in inside 50s and scoring shots etc.

You being fit is a what if just like me saying we would have won by plenty if we weren't so wasteful.

Anyway, it is irrelevant to this game anyway and as you say agreement won't be forthcoming so I won't labour it.

I honestly have no idea about this game in question. Do I think we are currently a better team than Geelong? Yes. Do I think that means much when the sides run out this Monday? No, it means precisely shit.

I'd be staggered if it was anything but the usual back and forth, shift in momentum type game we've come to be accustomed too. One side will be in front at the right time.

Yep no doubt you are the better team at the moment and should win.
Hope it is a return to a real contest again as felt we dropped off the pace last year, but feel we might be more resembling of a team again in 2015. And bit over your dominance of the comp to be honest, you've had a good run, but enough is enough Miner, so think Geelong might have to lead the charge!

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's now lucky to have a dream run with form?

I thought that was called playing well i.e. the actual goal of the game.

They're good enough players that if they're fit they'll be playing well. The luck was that they were all fit.

If you look at Geelong and Hawthorn last year a month out from finals Geelong looked comfortably the team more ready for finals in terms of fitness (there were always question marks over our quality). Then our rucks fall over, Motlop hits a wall, SJ does his foot, Kelly rolls an ankle, Christensen does his back, etc and in the space of 3 weeks we go from having a fully fit 22 in form ready to hit finals to looking more like a surgical ward.

In comparison Gibson didn't play from round 9-17, Lake had played almost no footy till a month from finals and Mitchell missed round 8-15. All 3 of those were massive in the finals. Of course planning had them in tip top shape but you can't plan for injuries and you guys were lucky that none of those older players suffered in the lead up or during finals.

 

[witsend]

Yep, Hawks well trained and ready to go with the form. Brilliantly done. But lucky with health. And also acknowledge teams make their own luck to a degree but some things are not controllable.
I don't expect you to agree, but if we had been able to field a fit team 2013 prelim-we win.

"The harder I work, the luckier I get!"

 

[Turbocat]

Wow!!! I love your insight, what a super post Blighty! I'm bumping it, deserves to be seen again.

Specifically, we'd have a cracker of a discussion on how we could attempt to break the Dwarf's strategy next Monday -

"The Hawks have been playing a similar disciplined crowding the contest winning the ball before spotting up targets with short sharp kicking in to the forward line style for 3 years now with 2 flags to show for it but it seems nobody has really been able to tactically dissect it yet."

Blighty + everyone, how can Geelong stop the Hawks?

I've post previously that they don't like it when we open up space + that I'd love Kelly to just dedicate himself into tackling the Midget hard. But I'm seriously frothing at the mouth for our clever posters to offer their ideas.


BTW Blighty, there's no need for you to think you have to redeem yourself, you've offered an opinion + this forum is to discuss all sorts of ideas. If anyone has an issue with that then it's of no concern to you. Posters have a reasonable expectation of respect for their thoughts. For some reason a small few believe they need to verbalise every thought they have, mostly negative. I think that those who put others down, demean, belittle + snipe are petty + it says more about their frailties, than those like you, who offer a point of view.

One thing to know how to beat it , another to implement. I don't think its so much Hawks having a resolute plan , as much as other clubs not being good enough to match their plan and talent with a complimentary plan and talent.

2013 PF , Geelong failed in the last quarter due to reasons ,and Hawks mowed us down due to the failure. I believe if we had a 2007 Ottens in 2013 , we make the GF and the who knows. Freo match upon us better then them but they had shakey knees in the GF

2014 PF , Port just frittered it away in the Q1 , and in the end just failed to get them. the match up well verses the Swans Port as a more experienced team with less waste...not so much imo.

 

[Partridge]

If you look at Geelong and Hawthorn last year a month out from finals Geelong looked comfortably the team more ready for finals in terms of fitness (there were always question marks over our quality). Then our rucks fall over, Motlop hits a wall, SJ does his foot, Kelly rolls an ankle, Christensen does his back, etc and in the space of 3 weeks we go from having a fully fit 22 in form ready to hit finals to looking more like a surgical ward.

Kelly didn't roll his ankle until the warm-up of the final against North. It had no bearing on the Qualifying Final.

 

[MinerBoy]

Yep no doubt you are the better team at the moment and should win.
Hope it is a return to a real contest again as felt we dropped off the pace last year, but feel we might be more resembling of a team again in 2015. And bit over your dominance of the comp to be honest, you've had a good run, but enough is enough Miner, so think Geelong might have to lead the charge!

Well that would sure as hell be better than Essendon or the Swans.

I have to be honest, I can't understand how a Hawthorn fan could approach Geelong games with anything but a positive viewpoint (or anyone else either to be honest). We had a minor run 3-5 years ago where we did well, including a great finals win, but otherwise not sure what you've got to worry about.

I'm pretty positive about our chances in all games, even those where you were still clearly the better side. Why? Because despite that we were a pretty decent team ourselves and bias or whatever means we think we can beat anyone. No different to you guys now I guess. Most of you probably think the Hawks are the better team right now, but know the character and ability of your own side well enough to also realise that a win is still more than a remote possibility.

My dread with Cats games isn't losing them. They all piss me off to lose. It's the manner we have lost some of them at the death, when you get so invested in the heat of the contest. I was utterly relaxed during the "Hawkins game" when we were 50 odd points down. I mean whatever, we're getting thumped, shit happens. But then...........

 

[witsend]

Perhaps. But it's purely a hypothetical with no basis.

I mean sure the result was close..........but look at the game itself. The domination in inside 50s and scoring shots etc.

You being fit is a what if just like me saying we would have won by plenty if we weren't so wasteful.

Anyway, it is irrelevant to this game anyway and as you say agreement won't be forthcoming so I won't labour it.

I honestly have no idea about this game in question. Do I think we are currently a better team than Geelong? Yes. Do I think that means much when the sides run out this Monday? No, it means precisely shit.

I'd be staggered if it was anything but the usual back and forth, shift in momentum type game we've come to be accustomed too. One side will be in front at the right time.

I always feel the same with Cats v Hawks games, even when we had our streak. Being on the right side of a coin toss result seemed to get us over the line on at least 2-3 occasions. However, both teams are highly competitive, talented and well coached. But only a fool would argue that the team that has won the past 2 flags and has a near full and fit list should not be favorited. Having said that I still say it's a coin-toss game!! Bring it on!!

 

[bulletproof]

I have to be honest, I can't understand how a Hawthorn fan could approach Geelong games with anything but a positive viewpoint (or anyone else either to be honest). We had a minor run 3-5 years ago where we did well, including a great finals win, but otherwise not sure what you've got to worry about.

I think 'minor run' might be a slight re-writing of history. We beat them 11 times and won two premierships over a five year period of dominance. I don't think the fact they have now gone past us now, should diminish what went before.

 

[romeoh]

Kelly didn't roll his ankle until the warm-up of the final against North. It had no bearing on the Qualifying Final.

Thought his point was just a general one about our injuries in the finals, not that specific match?

 

[MinerBoy]

They're good enough players that if they're fit they'll be playing well. The luck was that they were all fit.

If you look at Geelong and Hawthorn last year a month out from finals Geelong looked comfortably the team more ready for finals in terms of fitness (there were always question marks over our quality). Then our rucks fall over, Motlop hits a wall, SJ does his foot, Kelly rolls an ankle, Christensen does his back, etc and in the space of 3 weeks we go from having a fully fit 22 in form ready to hit finals to looking more like a surgical ward.

In comparison Gibson didn't play from round 9-17, Lake had played almost no footy till a month from finals and Mitchell missed round 8-15. All 3 of those were massive in the finals. Of course planning had them in tip top shape but you can't plan for injuries and you guys were lucky that none of those older players suffered in the lead up or during finals.

I hope me responding isn't turning this ugly. Not the intention to get in to an argument.

I guess my answer though to that is that when your injuries hit, you were no longer able to compete with the best sides. We had injuries all through the year and still finished 1% off top. Lost a few close ones to Swans and Port interstate, which are probably tipped as losses anyway (Rough also out suspended v PA and I think Hodge missed the Swans too). Would Geelong have qualified on the same line as the Hawks if they had their injuries during the year rather than at finals time, or would they have slipped to 5-8, or further?

 

[Partridge]

I think 'minor run' might be a slight re-writing of history. We beat them 11 times and won two premierships over a five year period of dominance. I don't think the fact they have now gone past us now, should diminish what went before.

We had one great finals win in 2011, but ultimately we gift wrapped them a premiership in 2008, and handed them a Grand Final berth in 2013. Despite all the 'dominance', and how great it was to win so many close home and away games, ultimately the finals record over the last 8 years is 3-1 their way. And in all of the 3 recent premierships they've won, those wins made a significant difference.

The streak of home and away wins was good, and some wonderful moments in there. But it is pretty hollow without premierships to back it up.

 

[romeoh]

We had one great finals win in 2011, but ultimately we gift wrapped them a premiership in 2008, and handed them a Grand Final berth in 2013. Despite all the 'dominance', and how great it was to win so many close home and away games, ultimately the finals record over the last 8 years is 3-1 their way. And in all of the 3 recent premierships they've won, those wins made a significant difference.

The streak of home and away wins was good, and some wonderful moments in there. But it is pretty hollow without premierships to back it up.

Yep quite right but have to say I still got an awful lot of enjoyment out of that H&A streak.

 

[Partridge]

Thought his point was just a general one about our injuries in the finals, not that specific match?

The point being we can't claim Kelly was one of those injured in the lead-up to the finals. He wasn't.

 

[romeoh]

The point being we can't claim Kelly was one of those injured in the lead-up to the finals. He wasn't.

Yep but as Miner has observed, injuries weren't the cause of our demise last year in any case. Just not good enough in 2014.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Kitty , thats just a who cares stat. In the AFL its the last dance that counts , not the early stuff with the warm up band. Win all the games thru the year ultimately is just like going on a date.... dates don't count. Its going all the way that does.....ie getting married. ( just incase you were thinking something else)

I hate and admire them. Hates probably too strong but their success is obvious to all.
1960 zero Premierships 1971 1 Premierships 2015 12 Premierships...

We need to have another era , just like we have just had to even get close to matching them.

In reality it is Turbo. To me it's important, so I care + I look at all our glorious players + all they've achieved following that horribly long drought. I suppose that's just me, I like to look at the whole picture, but then we don't hear much about the other mighty sides over the years during their eras of dominance + say they had the most ***

 

[Turbocat]

In reality it is Turbo. To me it's important, so I care + I look at all our glorious players + all they've achieved following that horribly long drought. I suppose that's just me, I like to look at the whole picture, but then we don't hear much about the other mighty sides over the years during their eras of dominance + say they had the most ***

Im happy for people to be happy..if they are with that. To me its like me and a mate of mine playing cards. He say why do you care about who wins and loses its only a game. I say , well as it doesn't worry you losing , you just lose all the time , I win all the time and we are both happy.

Its dancing with your sister (if I had one). The disparity between top and bottom sides, the leveraging of results due to player management , the uneven draw , the recent addition of the norther franchises all make winning thru the year a less impressive achievement imo. Winning when it counts , is what counts.

Ask the unbeaten NZ cricket team about winning thru in the qualification rounds and "winning" in the elimination rounds and what really counts