AFL slams 'offensive' web page

[invinciBlues]

Terrible analogy. Speeding is black and white. You know that when you drive over the speed limit, which is clearly defined, you are breaking the law.

I just want to point out separately that speeding is not black and white. Back when I first got my license, it used to 10% of whatever the sign said. Sign said 60? Well, I can do 66 actually. Speed limit 100? Erm.. I think you mean 110 officer. Steep incline? Well, naturally you're cars gonna go faster. Overtaking a truck? Chuck on an extra 15-20k's to the speed limit.

So the laws were changed recently to make it a bit clearer for people.

Nowadays its all "wipe off 5" and none of the above applies. Speed limit of 50, means a speed limit of 50. Going down a hill, well you'd better use your brakes. Overtaking a truck, if you couldn't overtake him doing the speed limit then you had no business overtaking him in the first place.

Now they're a bit more black and white - but this wasn't always the case, and they're still not completely black and white.

Point is, society changes and as such, so does its views on whats OK and what isn't. As a member of society, you should endeavour to keep up with those around you and not get stuck in the past.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I just want to point out separately that speeding is not black and white. Back when I first got my license, it used to 10% of whatever the sign said. Sign said 60? Well, I can do 66 actually. Speed limit 100? Erm.. I think you mean 110 officer. Steep incline? Well, naturally you're cars gonna go faster. Overtaking a truck? Chuck on an extra 15-20k's to the speed limit.

So the laws were changed recently to make it a bit clearer for people.

Nowadays its all "wipe off 5" and none of the above applies. Speed limit of 50, means a speed limit of 50. Going down a hill, well you'd better use your brakes. Overtaking a truck, if you couldn't overtake him doing the speed limit then you had no business overtaking him in the first place.

Now they're a bit more black and white - but this wasn't always the case, and they're still not completely black and white.

Point is, society changes and as such, so does its views on whats OK and what isn't. As a member of society, you should endeavour to keep up with those around you and not get stuck in the past.

A long long time ago speed limits were much higher.
People did not always drive on or close to the speed limit, so it was less of an issue.
Now the limits are all so stupidly low that cars behind will be frustrated if you choose to drive slower than the speed limit ( I know I find it difficult to drive at a constant 40km/h on a two lane carriageway ).
So everyone is trying to operate in a tiny window of limits. ( Yes I know that Vicroads can role out a University Professor to explain that I can stop quicker if I'm going 10Km/h than 40Km/h therefore we should all go 10Kmh --- duh ).

With matters of offensive/racist behaivior there is often no reason to even go close to the line.
The only thing is people trying to be funny often need to go pretty close.
Mel Brooks "Blazing Saddles" portrays a great deal of racist behaiviour, but it isn't offensive because those acting that way are shown to be completely wrong and stupid.

There is nothing less funny than a comedian that crosses to the wrong side of the line. Strained laughter or deathly silence are the indicators.

Anyone see that stupid minstral show on Hey Hey its Saturday?

 

[koopatroopa]

For there to be any impact on a supposed 'victim' of 'racism' the victim has to be offended. What I don't get is why people just don't give a ****?

If you get offended and seek out racism, give it a go for a whole - stop giving a **** and see if it makes a difference. I can guarantee you will live a happier life, not giving a ****. Unfortunately some people would prefer the conflict*

Like Martin Luther King? Yeah he probably should have just HTFU and STFU then might still be alive today

 

[koopatroopa]

You drew a comparison earlier between the USA and China, asking why China doesn't get the same bad rap about slavery that the USA does. Then for emphasis you mentioned that China even neutered all their slaves so there was "no pesky descendants" hanging around to continue to take offense at their ancestors hardships...or something...

Well, how does China's human rights record look these days compared to the USA?

Can I draw a comparison there, and say that in the USA all of their "whingers and whiners" actually got some stuff changed and made their country a better place for minorities than a place like...say ....China....?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dunno mate. I think it would take a pretty hard kid to put up with jokes about his personal appearance every day of his life. Stuff like that wears a person down IMO. You'll pick up on this as you grow older and modify your behaviour.

It's called maturity.

Are you talking about the only black kid in class, or the redhead, or the little fat kid, the kid who once pissed his pants in class 5 years ago?
Is racial bullying any different to other forms of bullying?

 

[koopatroopa]

[SIZE=-1]I'm going to leave this thread with this quote:

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? It is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You cannot help those who don't want to help themselves, but at least I feel I've tried.[/SIZE]

 

[kfc1]

Like Martin Luther King? Yeah he probably should have just HTFU and STFU then might still be alive today

Nice try, strawman, MLK achieved some fantastic outcomes for african-americans. His efforts played a huge role in ensuring that american law and american society views african-americans as equals.

Now that this has been achieved, his campaigns are largely irrelevant in society today as equality has been achieved, the only thing left is the individual to take responsibility for their own life.

Are you talking about the only black kid in class, or the redhead, or the little fat kid, the kid who once pissed his pants in class 5 years ago?
Is racial bullying any different to other forms of bullying?

Replying to this and previous posts on the same line of thought - I did not intend to refer to bullying at all, and if my previous post implied that then I made an error.

What we are talking about is 1 person making a joke at someone else's expense, not bullying. Bullying on any level and using any topic is disgusting behaviour.

 

[kfc1]

[SIZE=-1]I'm going to leave this thread with this quote:

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? It is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You cannot help those who don't want to help themselves, but at least I feel I've tried.[/SIZE]

What was it that invinciblues said - "lots of rhetoric and very little substance"?

If you continue to focus on being different, then you will only prolong that feeling of being different. Likewise with the 'substantive equality' rhetoric - you isolate particular racial groups and treat them with kid gloves to ensure they get the 'same' treatment but how does this contribute to being included? Doesn't it just reinforce the problem of treating people differently purely because of their race? I have no problem with matching services to needs based on a person's circumstances but I do have a problem with assuming someone needs special treatment based purely on their race.

I agree with the last sentence, you cannot help those who don't want to help themselves.

 

[invinciBlues]

Nice try, strawman, MLK achieved some fantastic outcomes for african-americans. His efforts played a huge role in ensuring that american law and american society views african-americans as equals.

Now that this has been achieved, his campaigns are largely irrelevant in society today as equality has been achieved, the only thing left is the individual to take responsibility for their own life.

 

[kfc1]

I just want to point out separately that speeding is not black and white. Back when I first got my license, it used to 10% of whatever the sign said. Sign said 60? Well, I can do 66 actually. Speed limit 100? Erm.. I think you mean 110 officer. Steep incline? Well, naturally you're cars gonna go faster. Overtaking a truck? Chuck on an extra 15-20k's to the speed limit.

Are you an idiot? Speed limits have, since the late 1970s when the default speed limits were introduced in lieu of derestriction, been entirely black and white. What you are referring to is the likelihood of enforcement in particular situations, however the actual legal/illegal line is plain as day and clear to see for everyone.

Does that clear line exists when it comes to racism? No it doesn't. There is no list of approved terms/jokes/comments. Whether it is considered racist is entirely up to the recipient and for them to do that they need to make some level of assumption about the intent of the comment. Nothing like speeding, you flog.

P.S. With your age guessing, you're going the wrong way

 

[invinciBlues]

I'm sorry kfc1, but I can't/wont continue discussing this with you. You and I clearly live on different planets.

Racial equality has been achieved? Do you even pay attention to the world around you?

lol

 

[teknodeejay]

The Age trying to milk every last drop out of this one: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/sorry--but-it-was-a-joke-afl-memes-creator-20120420-1xb18.html

Fair dinkum, they've dropped to Herald Sun sensationalism levels of crap with this article.

Mr. Jeans is writing for the wrong rag.

 

[kfc1]

I'm sorry kfc1, but I can't/wont continue discussing this with you. You and I clearly live on different planets.

Racial equality has been achieved? Do you even pay attention to the world around you?

I'd love you to compile a list of examples of racial inequality from Australia.

 

[koopatroopa]

I'd love you to compile a list of examples of racial inequality from Australia.

[SIZE=-1]"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group"

-an ex-racist. Hopefully that will be you one day, too.
[/SIZE]

 

[3kicks3goals]

I'd love you to compile a list of examples of racial inequality from Australia.

Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, that is one of the pillars of a liberal democratic society. What in the hell makes you think that there is not 'racial inequality'? This does not make Australia a racist country, but there certainly are racial groups which, for various reasons, find it difficult in Australian society.

For example, is there equality between yourself and the following people in Australia?:
An aboriginal child born into a community with high rates of alcoholism and sexual abuse, who finds it very difficult to gain a decent education.

A Pacific Islander who came to Australia from New Zealand before the migration agreement with NZ changed in 2001, cannot get Centrelink benefits due to issues with their residency status and now struggle to get work because many of the jobs they came here to do are now not available.

A Sudanese immigrant who fled to Australia as a practising lawyer, only to find that their qualifications are not recognised here. So, to support their family they work illegal double shifts as a security guard at Coles, which the security company is able to get away with because they know there will be no complaints as long as they provide work, while studying a business course at uni so they can get back to doing some work which suits their abilities.

I could go on. The reason that this relates to the prayer rooms is that if we are going to have such people living in this country, which we do, like it or not, it makes sense to try and accommodate them as best as possible.

Having problems such as these does not make us racist. But I think if we are deliberately blind to them, then we are making it incredibly difficult for some people who could be very valuable members of the AFL community, and indeed this nation, to be so.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

[SIZE=-1]I'm going to leave this thread with this quote: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? It is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You cannot help those who don't want to help themselves, but at least I feel I've tried.[/SIZE]

This statement is racially descrimanitive against ethnic minorities who may be descriminated against despite their white skin.
Surely you dont have to be black to suffer from racial descrimination.

 

[kfc1]

[SIZE=-1]"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group"

-an ex-racist. Hopefully that will be you one day, too.
[/SIZE]

I would be ever so greatful if you could help me along that path, oh wise one.

 

[kfc1]

Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, that is one of the pillars of a liberal democratic society.

Agree and I think this is the most important aspect.

What in the hell makes you think that there is not 'racial inequality'? This does not make Australia a racist country, but there certainly are racial groups which, for various reasons, find it difficult in Australian society.

It is important to note the distinction between "someone who is of a certain race who finds it difficult" versus "someone who finds it difficult because of their race".

For example, is there equality between yourself and the following people in Australia?:
An aboriginal child born into a community with high rates of alcoholism and sexual abuse, who finds it very difficult to gain a decent education.

Is this because the child is aboriginal? No. It is a result of their parents choices. Plenty of 'white' kids are born into communities and families with those problems.

A Pacific Islander who came to Australia from New Zealand before the migration agreement with NZ changed in 2001, cannot get Centrelink benefits due to issues with their residency status and now struggle to get work because many of the jobs they came here to do are now not available.

I am not familiar with changes to the migration agreement. However, I don't see how this is a race issue - unless the migration agreement specified particular restrictions for NZ citizens of particular racial heritages - it is an issue which applies to all NZ citizens who migrated. Whether that NZ citizen is of pacific islander heritage or of asian heritage or of european heritage doesn't make any difference.

A Sudanese immigrant who fled to Australia as a practising lawyer, only to find that their qualifications are not recognised here. So, to support their family they work illegal double shifts as a security guard at Coles, which the security company is able to get away with because they know there will be no complaints as long as they provide work, while studying a business course at uni so they can get back to doing some work which suits their abilities.

Again, not a race issue. An Australian lawyer moving to Canada, as an example, will find that their qualification is not recognised and that they will have to do additional education to practice there. Same happens in most high-level industries - to gain accreditation you have to have a degree from an accredited course.

Now, for the 2nd part of that quote - the person in question has made a choice to go outside the law for their own betterment. That's a choice. They always have to choice not to do that. Why would they make a complaint and lose that income?

I could go on. The reason that this relates to the prayer rooms is that if we are going to have such people living in this country, which we do, like it or not, it makes sense to try and accommodate them as best as possible.

Wrong thread - this is not the prayer room thread.

Having problems such as these does not make us racist. But I think if we are deliberately blind to them, then we are making it incredibly difficult for some people who could be very valuable members of the AFL community, and indeed this nation, to be so.

I'm definitely not blind to the problems that exist, I just disagree on the matters of correlation and causation.

I fully support providing assistance to people in need, based on their circumstance. However, I do object to doing so solely on the basis of the colour of skin, or racial background, because to do that is racism. As long as that happens, then the issue of race will always be there as an issue, instead of an irrelevancy which is what it should be.

 

[3kicks3goals]

Sorry, getting my threads mixed up.

I'm definitely not blind to the problems that exist, I just disagree on the matters of correlation and causation.

I fully support providing assistance to people in need, based on their circumstance. However, I do object to doing so solely on the basis of the colour of skin, or racial background, because to do that is racism. As long as that happens, then the issue of race will always be there as an issue, instead of an irrelevancy which is what it should be.

But race is an issue because it is intrinsically linked with a whole heap of factors which I think you are ignoring. For example, you cannot ignore the past 200 years of history in investigating why an Aboriginal child may grow up in disadvantaged circumstances. It is ridiculous to just pass that disadvantage off as the fault of the child's parents, because, in all likelihood, they went through the same thing. In cases like this, there is something more systemic at work. It isn't racism, but it is racial.

You cannot assume that assistance should be provided to in the same way to that Aboriginal child than someone who grew up in Footscray or Hawthorn or Sudan. You cannot assume that a joke will be interpreted by someone else in the same way that you interpret it.

I am not suggesting that people should be given different treatment merely because of their race (although it does happen sometimes). But factors to do with shared background, identity and history, mean that groups of people are just different.

Australia's laws and customs were built, largely, by Anglo-Saxon white men, a group of people with a lot of shared history and values. People who do not share that background will react to Australian society and law in different ways, just as society will react to them differently. How can we ignore race then, in looking at how our society works and how to make it better?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sorry, getting my threads mixed up.



But race is an issue because it is intrinsically linked with a whole heap of factors which I think you are ignoring. For example, you cannot ignore the past 200 years of history in investigating why an Aboriginal child may grow up in disadvantaged circumstances. It is ridiculous to just pass that disadvantage off as the fault of the child's parents, because, in all likelihood, they went through the same thing. In cases like this, there is something more systemic at work. It isn't racism, but it is racial.

You cannot assume that assistance should be provided to in the same way to that Aboriginal child than someone who grew up in Footscray or Hawthorn or Sudan. You cannot assume that a joke will be interpreted by someone else in the same way that you interpret it.

I am not suggesting that people should be given different treatment merely because of their race (although it does happen sometimes). But factors to do with shared background, identity and history, mean that groups of people are just different.

Australia's laws and customs were built, largely, by Anglo-Saxon white men, a group of people with a lot of shared history and values. People who do not share that background will react to Australian society and law in different ways, just as society will react to them differently. How can we ignore race then, in looking at how our society works and how to make it better?

Are you assuming that Aboriginal children dont grow up in Hawthorn or Footscray? Are you assuming that they are not offered additional assistance to other disadvantaged non-aboriginal children growing up in those area's?

Are we being racist if we object to some of the social customs of different ethnic groups. There are still some very brutal customs practised throughout the world.
Its quite a different thing than descriminating against a person because of their appearance.
If an Australian woman from Bondi went to Yeman, should she expect to go topless on the beach?

 

[koopatroopa]

How can we ignore race then, in looking at how our society works and how to make it better?

He already answered:

For there to be any impact on a supposed 'victim' of 'racism' the victim has to be offended. What I don't get is why people just don't give a ****?

Think about it, don't give a **** and:

1. The victim is still happy, cos they don't give a ****
2. Someone who makes an innocent comment doesn't get accosted with accusations of racism
3. Anyone who intended racism loses because the racism has no impact on the victim, i.e. it is essentially a gun without bullets
4. Everyone else is happy because they don't have to put up with this s**t
5. ???
6. Profit

Unfortunately the distinct lack of hardening the **** up just prolongs the problems and *s the progress of society

If you get offended and seek out racism, give it a go for a whole - stop giving a **** and see if it makes a difference. I can guarantee you will live a happier life, not giving a ****. Unfortunately some people would prefer the conflict*

* yes i see the irony of me saying that while posting in this thread - we all like to indulge every now and then

Because racism doesn't exist. It only exists when people seek out comments (which could just be innocent!) and choose to be offended. HTFU guys!

kfc is interested in keeping the status quo because hey why would he want to change anything when the world is just fine and dandy if you choose to look at it his way (The Correct Way)!

 

[3kicks3goals]

Are you assuming that Aboriginal children dont grow up in Hawthorn or Footscray? Are you assuming that they are not offered additional assistance to other disadvantaged non-aboriginal children growing up in those area's?

Are we being racist if we object to some of the social customs of different ethnic groups. There are still some very brutal customs practised throughout the world.
Its quite a different thing than descriminating against a person because of their appearance.
If an Australian woman from Bondi went to Yeman, should she expect to go topless on the beach?

No I was referring to more remote communities. No I am not assuming that they do not receive extra assistance, I was justify why they do.

No, I don't think criticising the practices of other cultures is racist, as long as we are respectful and reasonable. I wish that an Australian woman from Bondi had the freedom to go topless wherever she wanted to. I could go on all day about the aspects of other nations and cultures that I find not only distasteful, but downright barbaric. Relative to a lot of countries, Australia is paradise.

Anyone, I'm going to leave this thread now. Good to have discussed it with you and others, especially without either of us resorting to insults (offers hand to shake).

 

[kfc1]

But race is an issue because it is intrinsically linked with a whole heap of factors which I think you are ignoring. For example, you cannot ignore the past 200 years of history in investigating why an Aboriginal child may grow up in disadvantaged circumstances.

Just to make this clear - I am ignoring any of that. What I am trying to do is identify issues which are due to racial inequality.

You cannot assume that assistance should be provided to in the same way to that Aboriginal child than someone who grew up in Footscray or Hawthorn or Sudan.

See this is where I disagree with you completely. In my previous post I clearly said

"I fully support providing assistance to people in need, based on their circumstance. However, I do object to doing so solely on the basis of the colour of skin, or racial background."

You should not "provide assistance to that Aboriginal child" simply because they are Aboriginal - if assistance is provided it should be because they need it, based on their circumstance. Race is not relevant, it is all about circumstance. Where you live, what your family environment is like, whether you have disabilities or special needs, whether you have access to adequate schooling etc.

An aborigine growing up with good parents in Hawthorn does not need the same assistance as an aborigine growing up with alcoholic, unemployed parents in Yuendumu. The aborigine growing up in Hawthorn might not need any assistance at all and it is wrong to assume that they would need it simply because they are aboriginal.

You cannot assume that a joke will be interpreted by someone else in the same way that you interpret it.

Completely agree and it is the beauty of language. However, you cannot also assume that a comment is made in the way you interpret it.

I am not suggesting that people should be given different treatment merely because of their race (although it does happen sometimes).

That is exactly what you have suggested earlier in your post.

How can we ignore race then, in looking at how our society works and how to make it better?

When I meet someone, their race is irrelevant to me. I don't make any judgement on a person because of their race, it is not even a factor. But apparently that makes me racist because I don't seek to identify someone by their race and assume that I need to treat them differently because of it.

Glen Johnson has the right idea...
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-he-reignites-suarez-controversy-3043923.html
Paul McGrath is an a-grade racist and ****wit of the highest order

 

[3kicks3goals]

You should not "provide assistance to that Aboriginal child" simply because they are Aboriginal - if assistance is provided it should be because they need it, based on their circumstance. Race is not relevant, it is all about circumstance. Where you live, what your family environment is like, whether you have disabilities or special needs, whether you have access to adequate schooling etc.

An aborigine growing up with good parents in Hawthorn does not need the same assistance as an aborigine growing up with alcoholic, unemployed parents in Yuendumu. The aborigine growing up in Hawthorn might not need any assistance at all and it is wrong to assume that they would need it simply because they are aboriginal.

I actually mostly agree with you. I am not saying that Aboriginals should be given assistance based on anything other than need, just that the reason that they need assistance is based on racial factors. I'm not suggesting you are a racist by the way, in fact I appreciate your contributions to the debate. Let's leave it at that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I actually mostly agree with you. I am not saying that Aboriginals should be given assistance based on anything other than need, just that the reason that they need assistance is based on racial factors. I'm not suggesting you are a racist by the way, in fact I appreciate your contributions to the debate. Let's leave it at that.

It seems that you consider that they may need assistance based on social or cultural issues related to their race, rather than their membership of that race.

Some of the assistance to Aboriginals CAUSES racism in my opinion.
By generalising to make it easier to provide assistance to those who need it ( usually financial assistance which is not always the only thing required ) all Torres Strait Islanders and Aboriginals are bundled together in that category.
People then form the opinion that all of them need assistance and are living of welfare. By rationalising the Australian law as such, people are given the impression that its OK to generalise and that the Aboriginals are inferior.