AFLW AFLW/VFLW 2024 - General Discussion

[Oliver G]

An ongoing discussion thread for our AFLW and VFLW teams in 2024.

AFLW - Fixture
TBC

VFLW - Fixture
TBC

 

[Bulldogs85]

On club’s Facebook page Nathan Burke has Re-Signed until 2024

 

[MYOB]

On club’s Facebook page Nathan Burke has Re-Signed until 2024

And now on a full time basis

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

On club’s Facebook page Nathan Burke has Re-Signed until 2024

The club has also made his position full time, not part time.

 

[dogwatch]

The club has also made his position full time, not part time.

I reckon he has a bit to offer the Bulldogs even if he doesn’t have ambitions to go much further than his current role.

 

[Pugz89]

Deadset sick of expansion. WTF is the AFL thinking, allowing expansion clubs to sign players and not even require a trade to facilitate the move. Biggest *ing joke!

 

[Foxman98]

Deadset sick of expansion. WTF is the AFL thinking, allowing expansion clubs to sign players and not even require a trade to facilitate the move. Biggest *ing joke!

Genuinely makes me uninterested in the comp with how its run.

Yes we pioneered the way initially yet lose all our good players year after year for SFA

 

[Oliver G]

Deadset sick of expansion. WTF is the AFL thinking, allowing expansion clubs to sign players and not even require a trade to facilitate the move. Biggest *ing joke!

Genuinely makes me uninterested in the comp with how its run.

Yes we pioneered the way initially yet lose all our good players year after year for SFA

Just to clarify as bad as it is, we can only lose a maximum of 2 players to the Priority Signing Period (PSP) without facilitating a trade as we finished 8th and that is far better than it has been in the past.

On a positive note, PSP players are classified as "those who have completed three or more AFLW seasons". As we have lost so many players to expansion we have so few players that fit that category. Yes this is sarcasm.

Also, it should be noted that although we certainly "got done" in the first and second expansions in 2019/2020, we actually came out of the last expansion reasonably well. In fact the only player we lost from the 2022A season that made our B&F top 10 was Toogood and for the age profile of our list we did pretty darn well in the 2022B season.

I've said it before and I'll say it again the AFLW will always be compromised until we get a fixture where everyone plays each other once, so it's no surprise we are seeing draft/sign conditions like this.

Having said that I do have confidence that we will retain most if not all of our key players moving forward. The environment that the club has created (especially from Burkey) really started to show over the 2022 calendar year, add to that a brand new elite facility that will open in the next 12 months and I can't see why we won't retain our list.

 

[Pugz89]

Just to clarify as bad as it is, we can only lose a maximum of 2 players to the Priority Signing Period (PSP) without facilitating a trade as we finished 8th and that is far better than it has been in the past.

On a positive note, PSP players are classified as "those who have completed three or more AFLW seasons". As we have lost so many players to expansion we have so few players that fit that category. Yes this is sarcasm.

Also, it should be noted that although we certainly "got done" in the first and second expansions in 2019/2020, we actually came out of the last expansion reasonably well. In fact the only player we lost from the 2022A season that made our B&F top 10 was Toogood and for the age profile of our list we did pretty darn well in the 2022B season.

I've said it before and I'll say it again the AFLW will always be compromised until we get a fixture where everyone plays each other once, so it's no surprise we are seeing draft/sign conditions like this.

Having said that I do have confidence that we will retain most if not all of our key players moving forward. The environment that the club has created (especially from Burkey) really started to show over the 2022 calendar year, add to that a brand new elite facility that will open in the next 12 months and I can't see why we won't retain our list.

It is just never ending though. I thought the bulk of the expansion concessions were last year and now it would get back to a more even and balanced draft/trade period across all 18 clubs.

I understand we came out of last year's expansion well, but there is still this year to get through. It is just incredibly frustrating and at least from my perspective, somewhat unexpected, that it is still going along this season at such a process, which really doesn't give clubs much leverage.

Laughable thing is the AFL says they will determine any compensation for players lost without a trade, yet we lost Kearney and got a second round pick for a player who has been AA every single year since and was reigning league B&F winner at the time. This has proper triggered me, I won't lie, and even if it doesn't drastically affect the Dogs, the concept will still trigger me.

EndMelt

 

[Oliver G]

It is just never ending though. I thought the bulk of the expansion concessions were last year and now it would get back to a more even and balanced draft/trade period across all 18 clubs.

I hear you and I totally understand your view but maybe it's because I'm so heavily involved with the AFLW as a whole that I've always just taken this sort of thing as read and expected. At least for us the rules are somewhat tighter, we can only lose a maximum of 2, compared to 4 last year. From my view, this sort of thing was always on the cards with expansion as rapid as it was (the debate there is, should the competition have expanded so quickly).

The bottom line is there currently isn't enough experienced talent to spread across 18 teams and realistically there won't be for at least another season or two. Until the talent pool thickens there will be expansion concessions, it's just something we have to live with. Of course, the nature of these concessions can and should be debated and frankly should be communicated to clubs and the public far in advance, not just a week or two before the trade period opens.

The first 10 years of the competition were always going to be the most difficult in regards to player retention and an overall supporter experience. Unfair fixtures, draft, poor facilities, etc, etc. My hope is that by the end of the 10th season most if not all of these will be rectified. Certainly facility wise this will be ticked for most if not all clubs in the coming year or two. I do believe that Nicole Livingstone needs to be replaced as head of the AFLW though moving forward.

Laughable thing is the AFL says they will determine any compensation for players lost without a trade, yet we lost Kearney and got a second round pick for a player who has been AA every single year since and was reigning league B&F winner at the time. This has proper triggered me, I won't lie, and even if it doesn't drastically affect the Dogs, the concept will still trigger me.

Yes this was by far the worst thing that happened to us in regard to expansion and will always be a trigger point.

 

[Testekill]

Just to clarify as bad as it is, we can only lose a maximum of 2 players to the Priority Signing Period (PSP) without facilitating a trade as we finished 8th and that is far better than it has been in the past.

On a positive note, PSP players are classified as "those who have completed three or more AFLW seasons". As we have lost so many players to expansion we have so few players that fit that category. Yes this is sarcasm.

I guess that's the only positive, we get ****ed by expansion and trades so often that we don't have an experienced core of our list outside of a handful of players.

 

[_Cerberus_]

I have said it again, the AFLW is ran by muppets. First you had the stupid divisions, and despite the clear cut issues Livingstone was very defensive, and was pushing for uniqueness over balance and fairness. Then you had the first expansion, where the founding clubs were raided and lost players to teams who sooked about being included in the AFLW after not giving a f***k about it at first. Getting little to no compensation back. Now they are allowing the new teams extra compensation, on top of last years one. Which is already more than previous expansion team got.

They seem to forget that even if they prop the new teams up, four teams are still going to finish bottom four. Just making up rules as they go. They all need to resign and let proper footballing people run it.

 

[geoffjennings79]

This competition is beyond a joke now. Put a fork in it, it's done.

Oliver Gigacz - you are trying to defend the indefensible. Post #8 is embarrassing.

 

[dogwatch]

This competition is beyond a joke now. Put a fork in it, it's done.

This is what happens when you contrive a competition instead of letting it develop from grass roots support.

Have they learned nothing from the 125 year social history of the VFL/AFL? And from their own tortured FrankenGiants experiment?

It'll survive and will eventually level out, but only because of the AFL's political and financial heft. They have the the deep pockets and the will to make it work ... but for now they seem determined to damage their own brand.

Just for a moment imagine how passionate the support would have been for Melbourne and Footscray if the AFL had built the comp around those two pioneer clubs instead of dissecting them and casting the body parts in 18 different directions.
We would have been one of the iconic clubs of the AFLW.

At least we should be grateful we've got the likes of Ellie Blackburn and Katie Lamb to show the world that it doesn't always have to be just about business suits and focus groups.

 

[geoffjennings79]

At least we should be grateful we've got the likes of Ellie Blackburn and Katie Lamb to show the world that it doesn't always have to be just about business suits and focus groups.

I largely agree with your post. But I wonder if other clubs will keep coming for these two? Lamb is only 28, and Blackburn 28 next month. Plenty of years left for both. Once their current contracts end, cashed up clubs will knock on their doors again.

And who will be lost this time? It's "only a maximum of two" which is a good result according to Oliver - what a bonus that is!

And what concessions will be made prior to next season? The AFLW senior management would struggle to run an under 9s competition with integrity and competence.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

If we loose Eleanor Brown, or Gabby Newton, I will be finished. I hope Elle and Lamby will continue to be stalwarts if the club.

 

[geoffjennings79]

And so it starts. Chloe Molloy going to Swines.

 

[Bulldogs85]

And so it starts. Chloe Molloy going to Swines.

Apparently she has signed a 5 years contract how the * is that fair on other clubs

 

[geoffjennings79]

Pies potential mass exodus based on rumour of internal team division. Chiocci and Lambert could be traded to Saints, but Molloy would still depart under the ridiculous PSP over-reach.

Meanwhile I imagine Nicole Livingstone and her leadership team have their crayons and butcher paper out drawing up the next brilliant rule change for 2024.

 

[paulveed]

I hear you and I totally understand your view but maybe it's because I'm so heavily involved with the AFLW as a whole that I've always just taken this sort of thing as read and expected. At least for us the rules are somewhat tighter, we can only lose a maximum of 2, compared to 4 last year. From my view, this sort of thing was always on the cards with expansion as rapid as it was (the debate there is, should the competition have expanded so quickly).

The bottom line is there currently isn't enough experienced talent to spread across 18 teams and realistically there won't be for at least another season or two. Until the talent pool thickens there will be expansion concessions, it's just something we have to live with. Of course, the nature of these concessions can and should be debated and frankly should be communicated to clubs and the public far in advance, not just a week or two before the trade period opens.

The first 10 years of the competition were always going to be the most difficult in regards to player retention and an overall supporter experience. Unfair fixtures, draft, poor facilities, etc, etc. My hope is that by the end of the 10th season most if not all of these will be rectified. Certainly facility wise this will be ticked for most if not all clubs in the coming year or two. I do believe that Nicole Livingstone needs to be replaced as head of the AFLW though moving forward.



Yes this was by far the worst thing that happened to us in regard to expansion and will always be a trigger point.

As per usual AFL House %#(&$ everything it sticks it's fingers into. The expansion was pushed through way in advance of where the talent pool was ready for. Expansion should have been determined solely on the basis of the depth of talent that was available at the time. Their inappropriate rushing has handicapped the development of the level of skill across the competition, which in turn, has turned many footy fans off the competition to the detriment of the comp's. potential popularity.

 

[Graeme Cook]

There is no doubt the girls have improved marking and indeavour & there skills set but kicking is still ordinary but I can only watch our girls play no interest in other games.
The trouble is the competition is badly run 16 minute quarters time on only last 2 minutes if there is an injury or hold up in the game the clock keeps running to the detriment to the club who may have advantage of the wind.
Umpires are atrocious and haven't improved since day 1.

Cheers Me.

 

[Oliver G]

This competition is beyond a joke now. Put a fork in it, it's done.

Oliver Gigacz - you are trying to defend the indefensible. Post #8 is embarrassing.

Not really sure how it could be classified as embarrassing (especially since the first half was sarcasm and noted as). But there is some truth there as well, yes there is no question that we did get absolutely ****** in the first and second expansions in 2019 and 2020 but since then compared to other teams, we have done reasonably well in terms of losing players to pure expansion. We have certainly lost players but not all to expansion Birch had issues with the players and staff, Huntington was always going to leave due to work, Rennie wanted to leave, Munyard wanted to be closer to family, etc. I'm not excusing the ridiculousness of the expansion rules, it's just the facts.

As to the current situation I certainly am not defending and never have defended the decisions made by the AFL, I was simply stating that no one should be surprised by what's going on in the AFLW. For anyone that's followed the competition since the beginning, they'd know that key decisions regarding the AFLW have always been made on the fly. We have still yet to see a "long-term vision" paper from the AFL except for a media puff piece saying they want the AFLW to be the highest-paid women's competition by the end of the decade but until we actually get some concrete details on the long term plans, nobody should be surprised at the total lack of respect towards players, staff and fans alike. Again I'm not excusing it, it's just the facts.

In regards to fairness, christ just look at some of the decisions made by the AFL in the men's competition over the last 30 years, so I'm not sure why anyone would expect different with the AFLW.

The draft concessions are also far from being the only major issues with the competition. Fixturing, umpiring and time-on are actually my three biggest concerns, the umpiring is atrocious and is largely the only area of the AFLW that has seen no improvement over the seven seasons, how we still have only 2 minutes of time-on is just ridiculous (if the AFL wants 16 minute quarters make them 10-12 minutes but time-on is on all the time) and the fixture, need I say more.

If you didn't hear Burkey on the radio yesterday, he was outstanding in tearing the new deal apart, but these two quotes stood out to me...

"No... it's not fair but it's not new to football, it's been going on forever in a day, not playing everybody twice (in the AFLM), interstate travel, salary caps, and club funding, so I don't know why I expected to jump into the AFLW and expect fairness to be in there."

"There is no such thing as fairness in AFL football, so if you want pure fairness, don't be a part of the AFL."

I think it's great to see a senior coach call out the AFL so bluntly and it's not for the first time either, and I'm certainly glad we've signed him up for another two years. The environment he and the club have created over the past few years holds us in good stead moving forward. I also think his mindset is the right way to go about it, call it out for what it is, which in this case is a horribly unfair system but then move on and deal with it. It is obvious that these conditions won't be like this forever, we know why they are the way they are, the completion expanded far too quickly for the talent pool. But it is starting to change, we can all see the difference in player skill from the first season to now but casual AFLW supporters may not be aware of just how far the talent pool has come. I'm not trying to blow my own horn but part of my job is to watch the state and underage competitions and believe me the level of change just in the NAB League Girls over the last couple of years has been drastic. We are now seeing players in the NAB League system who have played junior footy for their entire life, which not only has helped their base skills but their body strength. On top of that the state leagues are also getting stronger and stronger, especially in SA and WA who have poured a lot resources into their respective programs.

Yes I may be an optimist in regard to the AFLW but that's mainly because of what I've been seeing at the lower level and suburban competitions. I would never try and force my opinions onto anyone and certainly don't blame anyone for wanting out.

Come back in 5 years and you'll see the difference.

 

[dogwatch]

Not really sure how it could be classified as embarrassing (especially since the first half was sarcasm and noted as). But there is some truth there as well, yes there is no question that we did get absolutely ****** in the first and second expansions in 2019 and 2020 but since then compared to other teams, we have done reasonably well in terms of losing players to pure expansion. We have certainly lost players but not all to expansion Birch had issues with the players and staff, Huntington was always going to leave due to work, Rennie wanted to leave, Munyard wanted to be closer to family, etc. I'm not excusing the ridiculousness of the expansion rules, it's just the facts.

As to the current situation I certainly am not defending and never have defended the decisions made by the AFL, I was simply stating that no one should be surprised by what's going on in the AFLW. For anyone that's followed the competition since the beginning, they'd know that key decisions regarding the AFLW have always been made on the fly. We have still yet to see a "long-term vision" paper from the AFL except for a media puff piece saying they want the AFLW to be the highest-paid women's competition by the end of the decade but until we actually get some concrete details on the long term plans, nobody should be surprised at the total lack of respect towards players, staff and fans alike. Again I'm not excusing it, it's just the facts.

In regards to fairness, christ just look at some of the decisions made by the AFL in the men's competition over the last 30 years, so I'm not sure why anyone would expect different with the AFLW.

The draft concessions are also far from being the only major issues with the competition. Fixturing, umpiring and time-on are actually my three biggest concerns, the umpiring is atrocious and is largely the only area of the AFLW that has seen no improvement over the seven seasons, how we still have only 2 minutes of time-on is just ridiculous (if the AFL wants 16 minute quarters make them 10-12 minutes but time-on is on all the time) and the fixture, need I say more.

If you didn't hear Burkey on the radio yesterday, he was outstanding in tearing the new deal apart, but these two quotes stood out to me...

"No... it's not fair but it's not new to football, it's been going on forever in a day, not playing everybody twice (in the AFLM), interstate travel, salary caps, and club funding, so I don't know why I expected to jump into the AFLW and expect fairness to be in there."

"There is no such thing as fairness in AFL football, so if you want pure fairness, don't be a part of the AFL."

I think it's great to see a senior coach call out the AFL so bluntly and it's not for the first time either, and I'm certainly glad we've signed him up for another two years. The environment he and the club have created over the past few years holds us in good stead moving forward. I also think his mindset is the right way to go about it, call it out for what it is, which in this case is a horribly unfair system but then move on and deal with it. It is obvious that these conditions won't be like this forever, we know why they are the way they are, the completion expanded far too quickly for the talent pool. But it is starting to change, we can all see the difference in player skill from the first season to now but casual AFLW supporters may not be aware of just how far the talent pool has come. I'm not trying to blow my own horn but part of my job is to watch the state and underage competitions and believe me the level of change just in the NAB League Girls over the last couple of years has been drastic. We are now seeing players in the NAB League system who have played junior footy for their entire life, which not only has helped their base skills but their body strength. On top of that the state leagues are also getting stronger and stronger, especially in SA and WA who have poured a lot resources into their respective programs.

Yes I may be an optimist in regard to the AFLW but that's mainly because of what I've been seeing at the lower level and suburban competitions. I would never try and force my opinions onto anyone and certainly don't blame anyone for wanting out.

Come back in 5 years and you'll see the difference.

A thoughtful and well argued post OG.

I think we're all of a similar view here. Some of us (you included by the sound of it) just find it hair-tearingly frustrating.

Credit to you for your patience and positive outlook. Let's hope you're close to the mark on this. I do agree with you about Burke, a great asset to the club.

Go Dogs.

 

[MYOB]

There is no doubt the girls have improved marking and indeavour & there skills set but kicking is still ordinary but I can only watch our girls play no interest in other games.
The trouble is the competition is badly run 16 minute quarters time on only last 2 minutes if there is an injury or hold up in the game the clock keeps running to the detriment to the club who may have advantage of the wind.
Umpires are atrocious and haven't improved since day 1.

Cheers Me.

15 minute quarters
In the first 13 minutes, time on only after a goal, or an injury.
Last 2 minutes, time on as per AFL.

Not saying that they aren't bullshit rules, just clarifying the bullshit rules.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

We seem to be quiet, no announcements of losing any players, or delisting.