Business & Finance Airline Industry

[Power Raid]

Guys like PR have had their arses hung in a sling with the airlines!

the secret of airlines is timing, the secret is to be involved with the growth phase. Especially in democratic nations where govts throw money and support as they will with Virgin.

In the case of virgin, the govt should hold off until the new owners (even if it is the same owners), present a business case and there own risk capital.

 

[Billy ray]

wife's family owned air asia with branson and others (the parent company is tune, which reflects their link back to music in warner). They sold out to become a minor shareholder a long time back but still have a minor stake.

The purschase price was $1 but obviously had to sink in the growth capital for the airline and hotels. However the business expands through insurance and credit card clips through branding.

Stayed at tune hotel in KL

Is your family related to tony fernandes? Or kamarudin bin meranun?

 

[Power Raid]

Stayed at tune hotel in KL

Is your family related to tony fernandes? Or kamarudin bin meranun?

the family is Chinese Indo and bank rolled air asia in the early days.

Fernandes dealt with the foreign ownership issue and anti-chinese issues in malaysia and my wife's family did the same in Indo and in other jurisdictions. All the assets of the company are still held beneficially by my wife's uncle but the actual interest stake is now minor.

 

[Zidane98]

A partner of Deloittes?

Does anyone know how these administrators are usually paid in these sorts of scenarios? I imagine they'll be charging a small fortune to take over administration of a concern like VA. Does the govt pay them? Do they garnish their fees from company finance?

I have no idea how this side of it works!

 

[Hawk Dork]

Does anyone know how these administrators are usually paid in these sorts of scenarios? I imagine they'll be charging a small fortune to take over administration of a concern like VA. Does the govt pay them? Do they garnish their fees from company finance?

I have no idea how this side of it works!

I would imagine they get first dibs of whats in the petty cash tin

 

[Kwality]

I would imagine they get first dibs of whats in the petty cash tin

Even asset sales, if the sale price exceeds the secured creditor.

 

[Power Raid]

Does anyone know how these administrators are usually paid in these sorts of scenarios? I imagine they'll be charging a small fortune to take over administration of a concern like VA. Does the govt pay them? Do they garnish their fees from company finance?

I have no idea how this side of it works!

accounting firms are highly governed by law and their CA membership

fees can be:
- time for money
- a % based on realisation of assets
- a fixed fee
- oncosts

the approval process can be the courts, creditors or other relevant committee


this is not my field, despite being a CA but I can confirm this is highly regulated and involves aggrieved parties all twitching with litigation. However the administrator uses this "highly litigious" as a tool to extract more time and more fees.

I don't know many poor administrators..............it's dirty but highly profitable.

 

[Kwality]

accounting firms are highly governed by law and their CA membership

fees can be:
- time for money
- a % based on realisation of assets
- a fixed fee
- oncosts

the approval process can be the courts, creditors or other relevant committee


this is not my field, despite being a CA but I can confirm this is highly regulated and involves aggrieved parties all twitching with litigation. However the administrator uses this "highly litigious" as a tool to extract more time and more fees.

I don't know many poor administrators..............it's dirty but highly profitable.

Spent too long filling in time sheets in Insolvencies, & there are plenty of impostors in the field imho - the big guys are more credible, not perfect.
Lucrative & challenging.

 

[Zidane98]

accounting firms are highly governed by law and their CA membership

fees can be:
- time for money
- a % based on realisation of assets
- a fixed fee
- oncosts

the approval process can be the courts, creditors or other relevant committee


this is not my field, despite being a CA but I can confirm this is highly regulated and involves aggrieved parties all twitching with litigation. However the administrator uses this "highly litigious" as a tool to extract more time and more fees.

I don't know many poor administrators..............it's dirty but highly profitable.

Estimate on the hourly rate Deloitte would be charging?

 

[Great8]

I would imagine they get first dibs of whats in the petty cash tin

Virgin have about $700m in the kitty currently

 

[Kwality]

Estimate on the hourly rate Deloitte would be charging?

In my day, 'the engine room' ( the workers) was little different to the formula for the mechanical workshop.

Salary x 2.5/3 divided by the recoverable hours, i.e the time charged out/billed/paid*.

The more qualified/good/technical the operative, the higher the wage, the lower the hours recoverable ( more professional development required).

Bloody long time since I worked in the profession.

* that was the important number come review time imho !!

 

[craigos]

The nerve of these billionaire owners (and millionaire CEO's) to expect to be bailed out whenever there's a downturn in business annoys the hell out of me.

 

[Kwality]

The nerve of these billionaire owners (and millionaire CEO's) to expect to be bailed out whenever there's a downturn in business annoys the hell out of me.

Thats why they need to take the haircut not the taxpayer, & imho, thats what is playing out.
Greg Combet has rejected putting Super Fund money in for good reason.

 

[Power Raid]

Estimate on the hourly rate Deloitte would be charging?

I'm way out of the loop these days and partners wages at the big 4 have dropped in the last 20 years.

At a guess a senior would be charged out at $400 an hour and a partner between $800 to $2k an hour but usually capped at a daily rate of $4k.

$20k a week is circa $1m a year which is less than GST, IFRS, Y2K and Sabane Oxley gravey trains

 

[Power Raid]

Spent too long filling in time sheets in Insolvencies, & there are plenty of impostors in the field imho - the big guys are more credible, not perfect.
Lucrative & challenging.

your right, the bigger the more integrity

some of the bottom feeders of the small caps are rather disgusting in their conduct. ASIC need to lift their game in this area.

 

[checkraiseulite]

I'm way out of the loop these days and partners wages at the big 4 have dropped in the last 20 years.

At a guess a senior would be charged out at $400 an hour and a partner between $800 to $2k an hour but usually capped at a daily rate of $4k.

$20k a week is circa $1m a year which is less than GST, IFRS, Y2K and Sabane Oxley gravey trains

they are tax and advisory rates.

$620 an hour + GST will be the rate for the administrators themselves iirc.

 

[Kwality]

they are tax and advisory rates.

$620 an hour + GST will be the rate for the administrators themselves iirc.

What are the budgeted recovered hours pa?

 

[Scotland]

I would imagine they get first dibs of whats in the petty cash tin

That is the first priority of any administrator.

They'll hang around as long as necessary as long as there is enough in the piggy bank to pay them.

 

[Sainteric]

Thats why they need to take the haircut not the taxpayer, & imho, thats what is playing out.
Greg Combet has rejected putting Super Fund money in for good reason.

$5 Billion Debt, bugger all assets and they were losing millions when they were flying. Don't need the advice of the oracle of omaha to steer clear of that train wreck.

 

[Billy ray]

$5 Billion Debt, bugger all assets and they were losing millions when they were flying. Don't need the advice of the oracle of omaha to steer clear of that train wreck.

I thought they had 2-3 billion of plane assets i read

 

[Kwality]

$5 Billion Debt, bugger all assets and they were losing millions when they were flying. Don't need the advice of the oracle of omaha to steer clear of that train wreck.

Watch Macquarie Bank .... big shears ready for haircutting.

 

[Kwality]

I thought they had 2-3 billion of plane assets i read

Fleet age averages 9 yrs.

 

[craigos]

Imagine how great it would be to run a business in the knowledge that if it goes to shit you will get bailed out.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Imagine how great it would be to run a business in the knowledge that if it goes to shit you will get bailed out.

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kwality]

Imagine how great it would be to run a business in the knowledge that if it goes to shit you will get bailed out.

Thats why its the shareholders that need to take the haircut.

Etihad Airways (20.94%) Singapore Airlines (20.09%) Nanshan Group (19.98%) HNA Group (19.82%) Virgin Group (10.42%)