List Mgmt. Aisho Going Elsewhere

[Maggie5]

For anyone to suggest the fault, in players wanting to leave Brisbane, does not sit clearly with the Management of that Club is deluding themselves.

Brisbane are attempting to do everything except face up to the problem and put in place a proper solution.

What they are attempting to do with Aish will over the medium term hurt them.
For 3 years no player wanted to go to Essendon, it cost that club dearly.
If Brisbane continue with their current stance they will suffer the same problem, quality players (and their Managers) will just refuse to deal with them.
No doubt they will pick up a fringe player or two or even a local kid but better players will say FU

Haven't they enticed Craig Lambert and his wife back to the club?
But you are right they should have put in place measures last year to investigate why a number of the players want to leave.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

For anyone to suggest the fault, in players wanting to leave Brisbane, does not sit clearly with the Management of that Club is deluding themselves.

Brisbane are attempting to do everything except face up to the problem and put in place a proper solution.

What they are attempting to do with Aish will over the medium term hurt them.
For 3 years no player wanted to go to Essendon, it cost that club dearly.
If Brisbane continue with their current stance they will suffer the same problem, quality players (and their Managers) will just refuse to deal with them.
No doubt they will pick up a fringe player or two or even a local kid but better players will say FU

So you mean like up until last season?? The best we could attract before Beams was a tainted Fev. What about looking further, we got Trav Johnstone - such a clean skin he was. WE aren't able to attract the real top line talent as we aren't where the talent come from. If you have a choice to do what you love, would you rather do it close to friends and family or a couple of thousand km away? It's naive to think that you wouldn't do the former

 

[76woodenspooners]

Again, I think this is BF scuttlebutt. Some Pies supporters seem to take last years beams trade a bit too personally. I outlined at the beginning that the Aish stance wasn't an anti-collingwood thing, its an aish/pickering related thing.

I think Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL, he seems to think that he can't do that in Brisbane, hence why he wants to be in Melbourne. You guys give him the best opportunities in terms of media coverage - is what I can deduce

I have no problem with Brisbane's behavior.

The rhetoric from Matthews about Aish isn't much different to the rhretoric from Pert about Beams last year.

Traditionally Brisbane and Collingwood have traded well. We paid pick 14 for Cameron Wood, so that was a big win for you guys. The Beams trade was a big win-win for both clubs. The Paine/Karnezis trade ended up being a lose-lose for both clubs.

Meh, let's see how things stack up at the end of trade period. Until then it's all just theatre

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Who cares what his motivation is. He wants to leave and he wants to come to Collingwood Since when has your club been designated the moral arbiters of what is or is not a valid reason to ask for a trade.
Personally I think Freemans reasons for wanting out are lame, but ultimately I have to accept it. ,
Not sure what your club is trying to achieve by punishing a 19 year old kid who everyone knows didn't want to go there in the first place

We're the moral arbiters as he's contracted to us until after the trade period. We have no obligation to trade him to his destination of choice. He has other means of getting to where he wants if a suitable trade can't be worked out. WE're punishing a player and his manager (whom has form with us) for handling the situation as poorly as you seem to think we are

 

[BPikkers]

So changing an administration, improving our player welfare systems isn't making the requisite changes after a disaster of losing 5 first rounders....

So they are finally doing something about it. This is an acknowledgement that if the club has their house in order they may not have lost all those players. Also u cannot included Karnezis in the 5. We did u guys a favour recruiting him. I never liked him at the Lions and was flabbergasted we took him off your hands. In fact I don't think u guys were fussed anyway.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

I have no problem with Brisbane's behavior.

The rhetoric from Matthews about Aish isn't much different to the rhretoric from Pert about Beams last year.

Traditionally Brisbane and Collingwood have traded well. We paid pick 14 for Cameron Wood, so that was a big win for you guys. The Beams trade was a big win-win for both clubs. The Paine/Karnezis trade ended up being a lose-lose for both clubs.

Meh, let's see how things stack up at the end of trade period. Until then it's all just theatre

I've also said this as well. It's grandstanding to highlight several issues existential to the club that we would prefer to be addressed sooner rather than later.

As for a trade, I'd like your 2016 1st rounder and Oxley. I'm assuming you'll want to give up 2 end rounders from your various trades. Somewhere in between (since we did you a doozy in Crisp my suggestion would be greatly appreciated )

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

So they are finally doing something about it. This is an acknowledgement that if the club has their house in order they may not have lost all those players. Also u cannot included Karnezis in the 5. We did u guys a favour recruiting him. I never liked him at the Lions and was flabbergasted we took him off your hands. In fact I don't think u guys were fussed anyway.

WE weren't overly fussed about Patty, the other lot definitely. It will become even more prevalent next season as they hit that 100 games threshold.

 

[BPikkers]

Again, I think this is BF scuttlebutt. Some Pies supporters seem to take last years beams trade a bit too personally. I outlined at the beginning that the Aish stance wasn't an anti-collingwood thing, its an aish/pickering related thing.

I think Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL, he seems to think that he can't do that in Brisbane, hence why he wants to be in Melbourne. You guys give him the best opportunities in terms of media coverage - is what I can deduce

Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL so he is going to Melbourne?? Why have you yet to admit that he probably doesn't like playing for the club. The culture is toxic. It's obvious and sometimes you need an outsider to inform you of your faults.

And why is Redden wanting out? And Martin putting it out there. Obviously he is not overly convinced he wants to be there either.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL so he is going to Melbourne?? Why have you yet to admit that he probably doesn't like playing for the club. The culture is toxic. It's obvious and sometimes you need an outsider to inform you of your faults.

And why is Redden wanting out? And Martin putting it out there. Obviously he is not overly convinced he wants to be there either.

According to some posters, apparently he never wanted to be there in the first place. So which is it...

Redden seems to want a new start.

Martin doesn't want out, allegedly signing a new contract in the not too distant future.

 

[ClaytonM]

Some Pies supporters seem to take last years beams trade a bit too personally.

To be honest most supporters regardless of club take it a bit personally.

While disappointed with Beams leaving last year I would have been more disappointed given the circumstances if we had refused to trade him.

Some supporters who bleated about Beams selecting only Brisbane last year will be bleating this year about how the Lions are being barstards for not accepting Aish's nomination of the Pies. Unfortunately self interest overrides intellectual honesty quite often on this place.

Aish should be able to get to the club of his choice. Lions and Pies management should be able to come up with an equitable deal that makes this happen. Why should Aish (or Freeman for that matter) be forced to play for someone they don't want to just cause management across many levels could not get its shit together.

 

[Mudeo]

With Dayne nominating us and only us, it actually gave you an insight into what we as a club have been through multiple times (more prevalently in recent years).....particularly with 1st round draft picks. You're reasoning as to what Dayne should have done, further emphasises the point I was making about Aish. You at least had the benefit of Dayne being contracted, having played an integral role in a premiership, winning a best and fairest, 6 seasons of service etc. A general contribution to your club. Realistically, has Aish done any of that (albeit I didn't expect us to win the league over the past 2 seasons mind).

I don't disagree with your sentiment, if the kid doesn't want to be there - that's fine, but at least do the right thing by the club, give them as many options as they can to get you to your city of choice. Realistically, if as reported, James wants to make a name for himself outside of Adelaide, again that's fair enough. By nominating Collingwood, he severely hamstrung the club in it's bargaining power. You could say the club learnt from the harsh lessons of the 'go home 5' and how they went about things. It seems to us (lions fans) that he seemed to think that using the blueprint that they did would get him his desired result. As a club, we've seen it as an opportunity to draw a line in the sand, and stop the thoughts the these first round players can get exactly what they want without looking after a club that has made a big investment in them.

However, I do think that it is a fair bit of posturing on the behalf of the Lions (this includes asking for the PP), not only to highlight the issues we have with retaining our talent, but some of the other issues within the club (training facilities etc). Lethal's position as well (to me at least), is posturing in order to get better compensation (particularly if as we all seemingly expect) it goes to mediation with the AFL. In our mind, Aish hasn't really regressed (i.e. he more than justified his pick 7 in season one, had a second season whereby he started poorly, injuries and you could argue desire affected the latter half of his season).

With Redden, he's been particularly up front with the club. He's given great service during his time at the club, but seems to think that the grass is greener, and needs a change. He didn't attend the B&F (and given how that seems to be a pre-cursor to these sorts of things these days) so we just have to assume he's gone now, although things have been fairly quiet on that front since his announcement, for all we know Craig and Mel have worked some magic already.

Hands off Anderson.....he isn't the worst replacement we could get for Aish.......

Yes Beams gave us 6 years of service but he still hasn't hit his prime and he didn't give us a choice on where to trade him either it was Brisbane or no where so that point is moot.

If you were going to draw a line in the sand then you would do it with every player requesting a trade this year. Sorry I don't buy that BS for a second. You are think that denying one players trade request is going to stop this in future circumstances? No it won't. If you said to everyone who is requesting a trade this year "you want out? Find your way through the drafts then." that would be drawing a line in the sand. Matthews has you believing a BS statement.

 

[76woodenspooners]

So you mean like up until last season?? The best we could attract before Beams was a tainted Fev.

How often does a big name of Beams (or Fev's) profile change hands? Dangerfield, Ablett, Franklin, Judd ...? Maybe one or two a season? For all clubs it's like a scratchy ticket. Brisbane are no different to anybody else - if anything they've done better than most clubs over recent years.

What about looking further, we got Trav Johnstone - such a clean skin he was. WE aren't able to attract the real top line talent as we aren't where the talent come from. If you have a choice to do what you love, would you rather do it close to friends and family or a couple of thousand km away? It's naive to think that you wouldn't do the former

It'd be different for different people.

Many are from the country - playing for a team based in the nearest capital city isn't much different to playing in any other capital city (eg: Adcock)

Some folks want to escape the fishbowl that is Melbourne (eg: Franklin).

Some folks just want to get out of one place and go somewhere where they can get well paid and get good success (eg: Tippett).

Some folks are happy to play away from home, despite reports to the contrary (eg: Scharenberg)

Some folks will be happy to pick up and leave home for a big pay packet and a fresh opportunity (eg: Ablett)

Some folks will deliberately want to move away from their home to get opportunities (Beams circa 1998)

Some folks will want to move home to be with their families (Beams circa 2014)

Everybody has a different story. For every 'go home' risk, there'll be a kid with a taste for adventure.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Yes Beams gave us 6 years of service but he still hasn't hit his prime and he didn't give us a choice on where to trade him either it was Brisbane or no where so that point is moot.

If you were going to draw a line in the sand then you would do it with every player requesting a trade this year. Sorry I don't buy that BS for a second. You are think that denying one players trade request is going to stop this in future circumstances? No it won't. If you said to everyone who is requesting a trade this year "you want out? Find your way through the drafts then." that would be drawing a line in the sand. Matthews has you believing a BS statement.

The other player wanting out.....redden.....is contracted.......if we don't get the deal we want, he won't go, but I think he will net us WC first rounder. Should we be up in arms similarly with him because he's requested a trade (almost identical contract circumstances as beams), actually we're looking to accomodate his wishes from what I gather

 

[ClaytonM]

What they don't realise is that only a strong club can 'send a message'. A pitiful club has no scope.

Stop being a dick. We are trying to have a civilised discussion.

 

[thetruth000001]

The other player wanting out.....redden.....is contracted.......if we don't get the deal we want, he won't go, but I think he will net us WC first rounder. Should we be up in arms similarly with him because he's requested a trade (almost identical contract circumstances as beams), actually we're looking to accomodate his wishes from what I gather

Credit to both collingwood and the Brisbane supporters right now emotions put aside it's a quality discussion without having a arguments or telling someone to f off or being a smartarse

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Credit to both collingwood and the Brisbane supporters right now emotions put aside it's a quality discussion without having a arguments or telling someone to f off or being a smartarse

I'm not here to deliberately inflame the situation, I'm more than happy to discuss things

 

[thetruth000001]

I'm not here to deliberately inflame the situation, I'm more than happy to discuss things

And that's the way it should be it's good without being a smart arse it's nice to have a normal chat with other supporters

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

By nominating Collingwood, he severely hamstrung the club in it's bargaining power.

Not sure how. Collingwood is a lower club with decent picks. If he had picked Hawthorn it would have been worse because HAwthorn don't have much in the way of early picks, at all.

Collingwood even has a young Queenslander to offer up as well, which not too many clubs would have. The more you look at it, Collingwood almost looks like the perfect club for him to have nominated. We have a recent trade agreement which was a win for BOTH clubs, we have high picks this year and will most likely have next year and as I said a young promising Queenslander to offer up.

As long as Brisbane are willing, we could do a perfectly good deal for Aish had Brisbane not been publicly stubborn about not entertaining a trade.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

How often does a big name of Beams (or Fev's) profile change hands? Dangerfield, Ablett, Franklin, Judd ...? Maybe one or two a season? For all clubs it's like a scratchy ticket. Brisbane are no different to anybody else - if anything they've done better than most clubs over recent years.



It'd be different for different people.

Many are from the country - playing for a team based in the nearest capital city isn't much different to playing in any other capital city (eg: Adcock)

Some folks want to escape the fishbowl that is Melbourne (eg: Franklin).

Some folks just want to get out of one place and go somewhere where they can get well paid and get good success (eg: Tippett).

Some folks are happy to play away from home, despite reports to the contrary (eg: Scharenberg)

Some folks will be happy to pick up and leave home for a big pay packet and a fresh opportunity (eg: Ablett)

Some folks will deliberately want to move away from their home to get opportunities (Beams circa 1998)

Some folks will want to move home to be with their families (Beams circa 2014)

Everybody has a different story. For every 'go home' risk, there'll be a kid with a taste for adventure.

OK. Scenario.

If you had the opportunity to stay in a city, you're an elite AFL footballer, but you're hardly recognised. It isn't an AFL stronghold, in fact, its a distant 3rd or 4th....

Then you were offered an opportunity to go to the mecca of your chosen sport, to take in all the hype that's involved around your chosen sport.

Which would you do as a 19/20yo??

 

[ottoman]

We're the moral arbiters as he's contracted to us until after the trade period. We have no obligation to trade him to his destination of choice. He has other means of getting to where he wants if a suitable trade can't be worked out. WE're punishing a player and his manager (whom has form with us) for handling the situation as poorly as you seem to think we are

I think you may be a bit delusional. Your club is not some power broker that can carry on like this. You may get away with it once but try making a habit of it and watch the AFLPA. player managers and other clubs put you back in your place. Your trying to punch above your weight at the moment. Your a floundering, insignificant club. We may humour your chest puffing in the short term but believe me try to continue on with it and your club will very quickly be given a reality check

 

[Snoop Dog]

With Dayne nominating us and only us, it actually gave you an insight into what we as a club have been through multiple times (more prevalently in recent years).....particularly with 1st round draft picks. You're reasoning as to what Dayne should have done, further emphasises the point I was making about Aish. You at least had the benefit of Dayne being contracted, having played an integral role in a premiership, winning a best and fairest, 6 seasons of service etc. A general contribution to your club. Realistically, has Aish done any of that (albeit I didn't expect us to win the league over the past 2 seasons mind).

I don't disagree with your sentiment, if the kid doesn't want to be there - that's fine, but at least do the right thing by the club, give them as many options as they can to get you to your city of choice. Realistically, if as reported, James wants to make a name for himself outside of Adelaide, again that's fair enough. By nominating Collingwood, he severely hamstrung the club in it's bargaining power. You could say the club learnt from the harsh lessons of the 'go home 5' and how they went about things. It seems to us (lions fans) that he seemed to think that using the blueprint that they did would get him his desired result. As a club, we've seen it as an opportunity to draw a line in the sand, and stop the thoughts the these first round players can get exactly what they want without looking after a club that has made a big investment in them.

However, I do think that it is a fair bit of posturing on the behalf of the Lions (this includes asking for the PP), not only to highlight the issues we have with retaining our talent, but some of the other issues within the club (training facilities etc). Lethal's position as well (to me at least), is posturing in order to get better compensation (particularly if as we all seemingly expect) it goes to mediation with the AFL. In our mind, Aish hasn't really regressed (i.e. he more than justified his pick 7 in season one, had a second season whereby he started poorly, injuries and you could argue desire affected the latter half of his season).

With Redden, he's been particularly up front with the club. He's given great service during his time at the club, but seems to think that the grass is greener, and needs a change. He didn't attend the B&F (and given how that seems to be a pre-cursor to these sorts of things these days) so we just have to assume he's gone now, although things have been fairly quiet on that front since his announcement, for all we know Craig and Mel have worked some magic already.

Hands off Anderson.....he isn't the worst replacement we could get for Aish.......

Agree with all that.

I have said seperately that I see things in Anderson that I prefer from our list build to that of Aish. Anderson has genuine speed and polish. He can also push forward and hurt as well but he just hasnt shown enough of it albeit hasnt really had chance to do it in the seniors. His Box Hill form been up and down which is a worry to.

Re Aish value I think think he is worthy of a selection comparable to what you gave up. Unfortunately you never quite get that but the Lions should get something very ecent and if Lethal is at the least posturing to get the AFL to that table then he will garner their empathy in any mediation talks. Well played!

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Not sure how. Collingwood is a lower club with decent picks. If he had picked Hawthorn it would have been worse because HAwthorn don't have much in the way of early picks, at all.

Collingwood even has a young Queenslander to offer up as well, which not too many clubs would have. The more you look at it, Collingwood almost looks like the perfect club for him to have nominated. We have a recent trade agreement which was a win for BOTH clubs, we have high picks this year and will most likely have next year and as I said a young promising Queenslander to offer up.

As long as Brisbane are willing, we could do a perfectly good deal for Aish had Brisbane not been publicly stubborn about not entertaining a trade.

Oxley is the equivalent of Crisp. He's shown signs but he's no sure thing to go either way. Him and a second rounder (essentially you're saying a former pick 7, who had a very good to exceptional first season, injury plagued and seemingly down on desire is worth a second rounder). That's not an equitable deal in our eyes.

 

[Mudeo]

The other player wanting out.....redden.....is contracted.......if we don't get the deal we want, he won't go, but I think he will net us WC first rounder. Should we be up in arms similarly with him because he's requested a trade (almost identical contract circumstances as beams), actually we're looking to accomodate his wishes from what I gather

But Redden wants out. Doesnt want to play for you guys. According to your stance this year if you don't get fair value for him then you should terminate his contract and make him go to the draft. Hypocritical. you will take what you can get for Redden even if it isn't fair. Even if West Coast don't offer up what he is worth? Similar to Aish he has nominated a club, according to what your saying why not trade him to Freo? Yet take a hard stance on Aish? This line in the sand BS isn't going to do your club any favours, if anything it's going to hinder you guys further

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

I think you may be a bit delusional. Your club is not some power broker that can carry on like this. You may get away with it once but try making a habit of it and watch the AFLPA. player managers and other clubs put you back in your place. Your trying to punch above your weight at the moment. Your a floundering, insignificant club. We may humour your chest puffing in the short term but believe me try to continue on with it and your club will very quickly be given a reality check

You mean how you're own club did similar tactics last season??

Explain to me how its any different?

 

[PieBeast]

Can we have another Aish thread for non-dribbling wafflers?

kthxbai