List Mgmt. Aisho Going Elsewhere

[BPikkers]

Refer to post 867 for the answer.

Henderson wasn't persecuted. He put his hand up, as he thought with Fev coming in, his opportunities would be limited. Actually, we didn't stand in his way, and made it easy for him (we should have found another way to get that deal over the line).

In case you haven't noticed, there aren't that many QLDer's playing in the AFL. IN fact, GWS and GC are also bleeding players, but since they had a glut of 1st round draft picks it hasn't been as noticeable.

We r talking about Henderson announcing he was leaving at Carlton during the season.

 

[ClaytonM]

The whole point of free agency was to give players more choice, which is great, but only after you've served a certain amount of time with said club.

To be honest i think the system is fundamentally flawed. Free and restricted trade has only made it worse and will probably see the whole thing fall over in a few years.

Either you have a draft and trade all players equitably within that system regardless of years service, or you remove the draft all together and rely on a salary cap.

Free trade disadvantages the losing team and hugely benefits the gaining team.

The problem isn't that Aish, Beams, Freeman or others are moving to a team of their choice. The problem is that a team may not be adequately compensated for that player. If Brisbane were they could use that pick to get a similar talent and age player from another team.

It is a problem of management. Players should not be punished for the incompetence of management.

 

[Anzacday]

underhanded?? Are u just dumb? If a player does not sign all year and still doesn't when the season ends, why would u be surprised? In fact, Swan was of the opinion he was going during the season as he stated that from experience, those that don't elect to sign end up leaving.

Why can't you just post your opinion without insulting someone?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

underhanded?? Are u just dumb? If a player does not sign all year and still doesn't when the season ends, why would u be surprised? In fact, Swan was of the opinion he was going during the season as he stated that from experience, those that don't elect to sign end up leaving.

Then why not be up front about it. If he never had any intention of staying, particularly after he'd done his hand, why not tell the club then, so they could start bargaining for the best deal possible. Why restrict it to just one team?? Why not just nominate melbourne as a city, giving us far more options? Seems fairly under-handed to me

 

[BPikkers]

Refer to post 867 for the answer.

Henderson wasn't persecuted. He put his hand up, as he thought with Fev coming in, his opportunities would be limited. Actually, we didn't stand in his way, and made it easy for him (we should have found another way to get that deal over the line).

In case you haven't noticed, there aren't that many QLDer's playing in the AFL. IN fact, GWS and GC are also bleeding players, but since they had a glut of 1st round draft picks it hasn't been as noticeable.

Of course CG and GES are losing players. They need to reduce their list. They had access to the top talent for a few years. They wouldn't be able to fit them into a salary cap. So it was part of the plan. But apart from Boyd, they seemed to have retained all the players they wanted.

 

[BPikkers]

Then why not be up front about it. If he never had any intention of staying, particularly after he'd done his hand, why not tell the club then, so they could start bargaining for the best deal possible. Why restrict it to just one team?? Why not just nominate melbourne as a city, giving us far more options? Seems fairly under-handed to me

tell me 1 player who has said "I'm leaving now send to me any team to Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth etc'

 

[Ketchup]

Go home 5 you say?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

To be honest i think the system is fundamentally flawed. Free and restricted trade has only made it worse and will probably see the whole thing fall over in a few years.

Either you have a draft and trade all players equitably within that system regardless of years service, or you remove the draft all together and rely on a salary cap.

Free trade disadvantages the losing team and hugely benefits the gaining team.

The problem isn't that Aish, Beams, Freeman or others are moving to a team of their choice. The problem is that a team may not be adequately compensated for that player. If Brisbane were they could use that pick to get a similar talent and age player from another team.

It is a problem of management. Players should not be punished for the incompetence of management.

I agree wholeheartedly. AFLPA got what they wanted, without thinking of the ramifications (particularly frontier clubs which always struggle with retention) to the clubs.

It isn't really poor management on the clubs behalf either, as a frontier club we have to take a chance. We can't limit our talent pool simply on the fact that they may be a flight risk. IN this modern age of football, things have become far too easy for the players.

 

[ottoman]

Go home 5 you say?

This genuinely made me LOL.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

tell me 1 player who has said "I'm leaving now send to me any team to Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth etc'

I can't.....but its an inherent flaw in the system

 

[BPikkers]

other clubs have had players request a trade to a nominated club. We are losing pick 10 in that draft who may well be better than Aish once he overcomes injury.

Sure, the lions have lost more than others. Doesn't this tell you it is a sad reflection of your club and recruitment strategy. GWS (I know a former board member) were wanting to recruit Wingard but didn't purely because they felt he was a risk to go home. From my understanding, Aish was also considered a risk. So to select him a club would have to be confident of their ability to sell their club during that period to keep him. Lions have nothing to sell.

 

[ottoman]

I can't.....but its an inherent flaw in the system

Was it an inherent flaw in the system last year when Beams would not consider GC as an option or is only a flaw in the system when it doesn't suit Brisbanes interests

 

[BPikkers]

I can't.....but its an inherent flaw in the system

and your comment on Henderson now that you are aware he left Carlton?

 

[good4footy]

I can't.....but its an inherent flaw in the system

In your view only. Whether people see it as such depends on where they sit across the 'clubs should have more power V players should have more power' continuum.

I'm with the players rather than the clubs on this despite passionately supporting the club rather than individual players in the long term. As such, I don't see it as an inherent flaw at all but rather the way it should be.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

other clubs have had players request a trade to a nominated club. We are losing pick 10 in that draft who may well be better than Aish once he overcomes injury.

Sure, the lions have lost more than others. Doesn't this tell you it is a sad reflection of your club and recruitment strategy. GWS (I know a former board member) were wanting to recruit Wingard but didn't purely because they felt he was a risk to go home. From my understanding, Aish was also considered a risk. So to select him a club would have to be confident of their ability to sell their club during that period to keep him. Lions have nothing to sell.

I've also cover my thoughts on the likes of Freeman leaving, re-read a few pages.

I think the whole Aish flight risk thing is hearsay, I've not seen anything other than BF scuttlebutt to say otherwise

 

[northpie]

Players do get a choice, but they shouldn't be able to restrict themselves to a single club. If returning home is what they ultimately want, why then restrict yourself to a single team, surely you'd be happy with just returning to melbourne/adelaide/perth etc rather than a specific team (more options leads to ultimately better compensation).

The whole point of free agency was to give players more choice, which is great, but only after you've served a certain amount of time with said club. I've no issues with that whatsoever. It's the self-entitlement of those whom are relatively fresh in the AFL system that think they get to dictate where it is that they get to play. This in part has been bought about by free agency, thus players thinking they have far more freedom. Personally, I'd love if initial contracts were lengthened, gets us over the second year blues, at 20/21 years of age, they are that little bit wiser, not as needy, and we may end up with a proportion more that will hang around.



Again, I've covered all of this previously.

It looks like (at worst), we've got 2, 21, 22 (leuey compo), and possibly WC's 1st rounder as well going into the draft. Each of which will amply cover for Schache, Keays and hipwood (even if both academy boys get sub 10 bids). With Aish, we're likely to see some short term pain. Yes it will be at a detriment to the club. But it does send a message, that you can't use Brisbane as a stepping stone (i.e. that with the lottery of the draft, you don't always get to where you want, but can use the situation if you're recruited by Brisbane to get to exactly where you want). His (aish's) seemingly under-handed tactics, have perpetuated us into this decision. (bearing in mind, I think a trade will get done, the AFL will step in - but it will speed up some positive changes in terms of post drafting contracts etc - which is ultimately what we really want)

A bit off topic Sgt. P but you seem to be a very reasonable lions supporter
Do you think there is anything in the rumours of Leppa and or Ricky dividing the player group across the Age groups. Your fact that all draftees from wish have signed extensions would suggest otherwise but gee the rumours are persistent?

 

[ClaytonM]

I agree wholeheartedly. AFLPA got what they wanted, without thinking of the ramifications (particularly frontier clubs which always struggle with retention) to the clubs.

It isn't really poor management on the clubs behalf either, as a frontier club we have to take a chance. We can't limit our talent pool simply on the fact that they may be a flight risk. IN this modern age of football, things have become far too easy for the players.

Yes I wasn't talking about failures of Lions management, but more broadly across the industry.

Unfortunately the players end up the victims of poor administration.

 

[BPikkers]

This wouldn't be an issue for the Lions if they hadn't of lost Polec, Yeo and Docherty in that year. Still you are yet to look internally as to why this happened. It's been a national game now for a long time now. That was the only incidence this occurred. So why did this occur? It's your club!

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

I agree wholeheartedly. AFLPA got what they wanted, without thinking of the ramifications (particularly frontier clubs which always struggle with retention) to the clubs.

It isn't really poor management on the clubs behalf either, as a frontier club we have to take a chance. We can't limit our talent pool simply on the fact that they may be a flight risk. IN this modern age of football, things have become far too easy for the players.

Why? Why don't you ask Beams why he did the same and requested a move whilst still contracted?

Why? Well lets see. One, he has a coach who has shown he is a loose cannon, grabs players by throats, takes to twitter to mouth off. Two, his captain is also a mouth, seems to be a pattern of intimidation from those in charge. And three, to top it off we have Lefal making threats not to trade.

Name me another job in the country where the employee does not have job mobility and cannot choose his employer? AFL players are forced to work for someone at the start of their career, they have no say. In the case of Brisbane it does not take much to work out that their are major cultural issues at the club, every year multiple players walk out, this years it Aish, Leungerger and Redden. Instead of blaming the system, might be wiser to have a look at your club and question those in power.

 

[Kirby]

A great way to generate publicity around your club ...

... Pick on Collingwood.

You don't reckon Matthews is just playing the game?

I'm with Scodog10 on this one. I reckon he 100% means it and he was even saying it on Game Day a couple of weeks before Aish nominated us.

Remember last year Kirby? First Friday of trade week, Collingwood took the tough stance and sent out a statement they had ceased negotiations with Brisbane and wouldn't go further with them, come Monday minds had been changed, went back on their word and deal done.

Offer them something worthwhile here and minds will be changed too.

I don't think the Lions will go back on their word until the AFL interferes and mediates. Even then, I'm not confident that they will fold.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

A bit off topic Sgt. P but you seem to be a very reasonable lions supporter
Do you think there is anything in the rumours of Leppa and or Ricky dividing the player group across the Age groups. Your fact that all draftees from wish have signed extensions would suggest otherwise but gee the rumours are persistent?

Again, I think this is BF scuttlebutt. Some Pies supporters seem to take last years beams trade a bit too personally. I outlined at the beginning that the Aish stance wasn't an anti-collingwood thing, its an aish/pickering related thing.

I think Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL, he seems to think that he can't do that in Brisbane, hence why he wants to be in Melbourne. You guys give him the best opportunities in terms of media coverage - is what I can deduce

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

This wouldn't be an issue for the Lions if they hadn't of lost Polec, Yeo and Docherty in that year. Still you are yet to look internally as to why this happened. It's been a national game now for a long time now. That was the only incidence this occurred. So why did this occur? It's your club!

So changing an administration, improving our player welfare systems isn't making the requisite changes after a disaster of losing 5 first rounders....

 

[Baltimore Jack]

For anyone to suggest the fault, in players wanting to leave Brisbane, does not sit clearly with the Management of that Club is deluding themselves.

Brisbane are attempting to do everything except face up to the problem and put in place a proper solution.

What they are attempting to do with Aish will over the medium term hurt them.
For 3 years no player wanted to go to Essendon, it cost that club dearly.
If Brisbane continue with their current stance they will suffer the same problem, quality players (and their Managers) will just refuse to deal with them.
No doubt they will pick up a fringe player or two or even a local kid but better players will say FU

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Why? Why don't you ask Beams why he did the same and requested a move whilst still contracted?

Why? Well lets see. One, he has a coach who has shown he is a loose cannon, grabs players by throats, takes to twitter to mouth off. Two, his captain is also a mouth, seems to be a pattern of intimidation from those in charge. And three, to top it off we have Lefal making threats not to trade.

Name me another job in the country where the employee does not have job mobility and cannot choose his employer? AFL players are forced to work for someone at the start of their career, they have no say. In the case of Brisbane it does not take much to work out that their are major cultural issues at the club, every year multiple players walk out, this years it Aish, Leungerger and Redden. Instead of blaming the system, might be wiser to have a look at your club and question those in power.

You mean how Redden's asked for a trade whilst under contract?

You're far too emotive about leppa and Rocky, personally I think its great that they publicly stick up for the club. Do you also pander to all of Eddie's shenanigans and agree with everything he says and does?

Only one of those has served 2 seasons at the club.....and that's the inherent flaw that the club wants corrected

 

[ottoman]

Again, I think this is BF scuttlebutt. Some Pies supporters seem to take last years beams trade a bit too personally. I outlined at the beginning that the Aish stance wasn't an anti-collingwood thing, its an aish/pickering related thing.

I think Aish wants to make a name for himself in the AFL, he seems to think that he can't do that in Brisbane, hence why he wants to be in Melbourne. You guys give him the best opportunities in terms of media coverage - is what I can deduce

Who cares what his motivation is. He wants to leave and he wants to come to Collingwood Since when has your club been designated the moral arbiters of what is or is not a valid reason to ask for a trade.
Personally I think Freemans reasons for wanting out are lame, but ultimately I have to accept it. ,
Not sure what your club is trying to achieve by punishing a 19 year old kid who everyone knows didn't want to go there in the first place