Albert Proud Now Arrested

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Stocka said:
There needs to be more of a performance and reward based incentive and a culture or system of leadership, rather than just the old-school hierarchical "alpha male" type of leader who everyone looks up to like some sort of god. I think people need to be motivated by more than just the individuals in leadership positions in order to develop a productive disposition.

In fact, I think that people can often resent the notion of looking up to "one alpha male" type leader just merely based on that person's perceived reputation or existing status. If resentment of this sort exists, then it largely undermines any authority that the appointed leaders have over those that they are trying to lead.
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I agree, which is why we need to share the burden more formally among an expanded leadership group.

That said, Haggis has a point, because the best discipline is and will always be, self discipline.

I really can't wait for the 2011 season to start so we can talk about games of football again.
 
Dylan12 said:
As revered as Voss/Brown are by a lot of us, I'm also starting to question that the feeling is not mutual by some of the players. If they were so revered, surely incidents like this wouldn't occur.
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While this may or may not be true I'm not sure strong leadership or "reverence" stops players who are intent on making poor decisions and putting themselves in bad situations. Does a captain/coach really need to make it clear to players that police shouldn't be verbally insulted or assaulted? Should respect for the captain/coach stop players pissing on cigarette machines? (respect for oneself should be enough in that instance really) Did Geelong's culture stop Stokes' drug issues?

Surely a club that didn't cut Proud after the initial glassing incident and was willing to let him take a leave of absence to deal with his drinking problems deserves some credit for giving him a chance rather than being blamed for not stopping him making dumb decisions.

People talk too much about "culture" for my liking. I feel such talk partially absolves the personal responsibility of those who are causing the problems.

Of course I'm just speaking hypothetically if Proud is found guilty.
 
3KZ is Football said:
I really can't wait for the year to start so we can talk about games of football again.
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Amen to that. We're into our second poor off season now and it's painfully evident in near on every thread here.
 

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Lets not all start argueing among ourselves....I think we are all so fed up with the happenings at the club the last 12mnths, it has all been a shock to a lot of us..

..we are not used to our club being in tatters..

When it continues to keep happening, we look for answers..

Some of those questions/answers may be way off....but some may be spot on...

Until things completely settle down again, some will question...others may not like it, but we must allow those few to voice their thoughts, if put across in a reasonable manner..

I'm glad Proud has been suspended....I'm sick of seeing our name in the papers.......innocent or not..

Where there is smoke, there is fire.....something happened, and as a result we are in the news again..

I'll be glad (I think/hope) when the footy starts, and we can concentrate on the results of games...instead of all this off field stuff..

I'm just sick of it..:(....I heard this latest news on the radio coming home from work...I swore, was so Pd off!!)
 
I don't feel like the club is in tatters at all.

The Fevola incident is unfortunate, but aside from that, all we have is a rookie listed player in trouble.

Apart from that, things are looking much better now than they did 6 months ago. The review process was very impressive, word is that the football department is a much, much, much more positive environment that it was throughout 2010.
 
The club has been in tatters for 12mnths IMO....and just when things look to be taking a major turn for the better, we get all the Fev drama, now this..

We are not used to the negative press EVER that we have endured this last 12mnths......and its continueing with this latest stuff..

TBD, have you ever know us to be getting as much bad press/media, potshots from all and sundry directions, laughed at etc..

Never in my time as a Bear/Lion ever..

We have always ran a very tight ship..and were respected by all, for it.....not anymore..
 
TheBrownDog said:
A major case of buck passing if you ask me. 95 percent of the list get into no trouble. Yet a couple of players doing stupid things somehow reflects badly on the coach and captain?
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I understand that TBD, but ask corporate sponsors who are the lifeblood of many sporting teams and I can tell you one player can effect and reflect on the entire club. Sure it is buck passing, but it is reality too.
 
Dylan12 said:
I understand that TBD, but ask corporate sponsors who are the lifeblood of many sporting teams and I can tell you one player can effect and reflect on the entire club. Sure it is buck passing, but it is reality too.
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:rolleyes: Just as well that the poker machines at our social club are set to become our new lifeblood then.
 
It's okay to be get frustrated but inferring that the misdeeds of a couple of our players who have systematic problems is due to leadership issues is way over the top. We all know Fev's & Proud history with the law and if they don't learn, it's their fault.
 
NoelMugavin said:
it reeks of lack of respect to Vossy as coach of the club!!

chances are given..taken..and pee on!! very disappointing
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If thats the case, they need a serious reality check, and kick up the rear end.....and strongly reminded how damned lucky they are:

a...Priviliged to be given the chance to play their sport at the highest level!

b...to be on the money they are on..

c... to be chosen to play for our club!!

d...to be coached by a legend of the game!!
 
3KZ is Football said:
I agree, which is why we need to share the burden more formally among an expanded leadership group.
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Are there players who are actually deserving of this, though?

Likewise, players shouldn't all have to have a leadership title in order to show leadership and have a positive influence. This is what I mean about immaturity amongst our list, in that there seems to be a lacking in players to stand up and show initiative in a positive direction, making decisions and taking action that sends the team forward.

(I'm largely making my comments here about on-field performance, but I think immaturity off the field is also becoming apparent).
 

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Haggis McHaggis said:
If I get drunk and punch **** through someone because I'm wound up, should my old man be given the 3rd degree over it? Get real.
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Yeah, it's frustrating to see one person stuff up, and other people cop flak because of it.
 
Just thinking aloud...

...is it that we now have more players playing up

...or a media culture that hounds and runs any and every little story even when they have little to no information and require to insinuate and gossip in order to fill their 500 word colomn?

And this goes for all teams. In a group of 44 kids is it really that surprising that they arn't all angels/have personal demons?
 
Stocka said:
I reckon it could perhaps a bit of both just at this point in time, Stitchface.
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Oh look this time I cant deny that poor old Proud hasn't made the mistake of his life if all accusations are true. I empathise for him.

My comment was more in relation to the idea that this is proof that our football club is in the toilet and has been for the last 2 years.
 
Albie's issues are more to do with life than footy. Footy has probably at least for the short term kept him from having more trouble in his life.

Fev is a different kettle of fish where footy has probably encouraged his errant ways.

Tough call on Albie, some of you might realise that i have rated him highly since day 1:eek: but the line in the sand has to be drawn at some stage. His violent ways are a major concern.

I don't know the answer to what the club should do now but i can tell you that phsycological testing should be at the forefront of our drafting procedures. Realistically it is a much better investment to choose a less talented footballer who is stable over more talented players who are psychologically fragile.
 
stitchface said:
Just thinking aloud...

...is it that we now have more players playing up

...or a media culture that hounds and runs any and every little story even when they have little to no information and require to insinuate and gossip in order to fill their 500 word colomn?

And this goes for all teams. In a group of 44 kids is it really that surprising that they arn't all angels/have personal demons?
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Yes, we now have more players playing up. Back in the day the players had Monday to Friday jobs to go to, or lectures to attend. Saturday night was the only night they could really do some damage (in theory).

The media are still really only covering stories where police are involved.
 
acuguy said:
Albie's issues are more to do with life than footy. Footy has probably at least for the short term kept him from having more trouble in his life.

Fev is a different kettle of fish where footy has probably encouraged his errant ways.

Tough call on Albie, some of you might realise that i have rated him highly since day 1:eek: but the line in the sand has to be drawn at some stage. His violent ways are a major concern.

I don't know the answer to what the club should do now but i can tell you that phsycological testing should be at the forefront of our drafting procedures. Realistically it is a much better investment to choose a less talented footballer who is stable over more talented players who are psychologically fragile.
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Well said :thumbsu:
 
acuguy said:
Albie's issues are more to do with life than footy. Footy has probably at least for the short term kept him from having more trouble in his life.

Fev is a different kettle of fish where footy has probably encouraged his errant ways.
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WOW – there could be a thesis of a reply to that… So… if I didn’t have a drivers licence I wouldn’t get done for drink driving is to if a tree falls in a forest…. Discuss.

But I am in a parallel world with you acuguy in that I also don’t know the answer. :(
 
I will be interested when the facts come to light, with Proud's history it's not a stretch to believe he could get in a barney with a cop. I'd foolishly believed that Proud had turned a corner personally and professionally the way he worked hard and fought his way back into the side. As with what others have said though he'll need to be made an example out of if the incident turns out to be a malevolent affair. Obviously not a star, but talented nonetheless would be a shame.
 
Wow just wow ....... forget the footy, he will not play AFL at the highest level again - he needs help.

Just hope he can get his s**t together for the sake of his general well being.
 
Whitamin C said:
I will be interested when the facts come to light, with Proud's history it's not a stretch to believe he could get in a barney with a cop. I'd foolishly believed that Proud had turned a corner personally and professionally the way he worked hard and fought his way back into the side. As with what others have said though he'll need to be made an example out of if the incident turns out to be a malevolent affair. Obviously not a star, but talented nonetheless would be a shame.
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I know, its depressing isnt it, every time you spend the off season thinking "such and such a player really looks like they can turn it around" it just never seems to eventuate.
Ben Cousins being the notable exception
 
On the flip side though i'm confused by all these comments about how Albie needs help.
If he called the cop a C&%# and then had a swing at him then sure i'd have to agree, but - as has already been mentioned on this thread - if it was a minor incident taken way out of proportion then to say he needs help is a bit rich.

Hopefully the club listens to all sides before making a decision.
 
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