Society/Culture Alex Pearce supports Palestine/promotes terrorism depending who you ask

[ElectricG]

If you apply your own standard to both sides, then basic logic dictates that both sides can justify their actions based on the actions of the other side.
But you only think one side has justification.

I’m really trying to stay on topic. If we want to argue specifically about “who started it” then we can take it to another thread.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

As I've said before in this thread, Kneecap claimed their statement supporting Hamas was a joke based on a character the band member was playing onstage and distanced themselves from Hamas already. Those who are still going after Pearce for any of this aren't interested in apologies or logic, just the feeling of righteousness.

 

[Harlott]

As I've said before in this thread, Kneecap claimed their statement supporting Hamas was a joke based on a character the band member was playing onstage and distanced themselves from Hamas already. Those who are still going after Pearce for any of this aren't interested in apologies or logic, just the feeling of righteousness.

They’re feeling something

 

[Number37]

I’m really trying to stay on topic. If we want to argue specifically about “who started it” then we can take it to another thread.

Got nothing to do with who started it.

You said, one action justifies another action.
But you only apply that standard to one side.

 

[ElectricG]

Got nothing to do with who started it.

You said, one action justifies another action.
But you only apply that standard to one side.

Okay let’s pretend we had that argument and you talked me around. You’re right! Israel is just as bad as Hamas! Actually they’re even worse!!

All that said and done, it’s still unwise for Alex to repost content from people who are in the middle of a controversy in which they were praising terrorists.

 

[Number37]

Okay let’s pretend we had that argument and you talked me around. You’re right! Israel is just as bad as Hamas! Actually they’re even worse!!

All that said and done, it’s still unwise for Alex to repost content from people who are in the middle of a controversy in which they were praising terrorists.

It's a storm in tea cup.
Kneecap is not cheering on Hamas or Hezbollah, they are cheering on the people who are being subjected to Israeli cruelty.

 

[ElectricG]

It's a storm in tea cup.
Kneecap is not cheering on Hamas or Hezbollah, they are cheering on the people who are being subjected to Israeli cruelty.

waving a flag around and saying “up Hamas, up hezbollah” is doing that

 

[Number37]

waving a flag around and saying “up Hamas, up hezbollah” is doing that

What's wrong with Kneecap cheering on entities who are trying to do something about Israeli committing genocide, when nobody else will do anything about it?

If Hamas was committing genocide against Israelis and Kneecap said "up the IDF", there wouldn't be a discussion about whether people's sensibilities were being offended.

 

[CM86]

What's wrong with Kneecap cheering on entities who are trying to do something about Israeli committing genocide, when nobody else will do anything about it?

If Hamas was committing genocide against Israelis and Kneecap said "up the IDF", there wouldn't be a discussion about whether people's sensibilities were being offended.

Do you support Hezbollah in general?

 

[Number37]

Do you support Hezbollah in general?

You tell me. Do I support Hezbollah?

 

[ReturningHawk]

waving a flag around and saying “up Hamas, up hezbollah” is doing that

For you, this will forever be a story about Kneecap, for others, it’s a story about an AFL player speaking out against genocide. You express no concern that Israel is conducting the largest scale genocide of the 21st century, and so nobody respects your opinion. You expect everyone to be concerned with Kneecap and Hamas, whose significance is negligible.

 

[ElectricG]

For you, this will forever be a story about Kneecap, for others, it’s a story about an AFL player speaking out against genocide. You express no concern that Israel is conducting the largest scale genocide of the 21st century, and so nobody respects your opinion. You expect everyone to be concerned with Kneecap and Hamas, whose significance is negligible.

There are other ways to speak out. You don’t have to broadcast the messages or terrorist sympathisers. Are you telling me that is the ONLY source Alex could’ve gone to to find pro-Palestine material?

 

[CM86]

You tell me. Do I support Hezbollah?

What happened to you? You used to be so genuine and reasonable.


I am directly asking you if you generally support Hezbollah, and you're asking me what your position is.
You don't know?
You haven't thought about it?
You have a position but don't think you can defend it honestly?


Why have you turned into the standard right wing/'centrist' in terms of disingenuous discussion?

 

[CM86]

There are other ways to speak out. You don’t have to broadcast the messages or terrorist sympathisers. Are you telling me that is the ONLY source Alex could’ve gone to to find pro-Palestine material?

You're right in what you're looking for in people to respond with.
You're wrong in how you're doing it and the standards you're expecting of AFL players, retweets and bands.

Yes, many of the responses to you are dishonest. But it's because the larger picture/understanding massively overshadows such a minor act, and the attempted 'cancel culture' around it has been blown way out of proportion.


There needs to be nuance in conversations, and the Israel/Gaza debate has been weaponised by bot farms to fracture 'the left'.
There is no longer any single group of people who are actively working against Trump/Putin/fascism etc. There is now nothing but infighting and distrust.
People actively voted against Harris in the US, and ALP here in Aus, as a protest against actions that would only ever be worse under the other party.
It's illogical, and powerful.

It's deliberate, and insanely effective. And it works even after it's been explained.

 

[ElectricG]

You're right in what you're looking for in people to respond with.
You're wrong in how you're doing it and the standards you're expecting of AFL players, retweets and bands.

Yes, many of the responses to you are dishonest. But it's because the larger picture/understanding massively overshadows such a minor act, and the attempted 'cancel culture' around it has been blown way out of proportion.


There needs to be nuance in conversations, and the Israel/Gaza debate has been weaponised by bot farms to fracture 'the left'.
There is no longer any single group of people who are actively working against Trump/Putin/fascism etc. There is now nothing but infighting and distrust.
People actively voted against Harris in the US, and ALP here in Aus, as a protest against actions that would only ever be worse under the other party.
It's illogical, and powerful.

It's deliberate, and insanely effective. And it works even after it's been explained.

It’s an argument that has been made here before and I just don’t agree with it. Alex retweeting Kneecap is a minor act in the grand scheme of things. But it’s a mistake that we should expect our peers and especially our role models to not make.

People are dying and your worried about tweets!? Well, yes I actually do worry about people losing their sense of right and wrong when a crisis on the other side of the world is unfolding.

I’m glad to hear from you though mate

 

[CM86]

It’s an argument that has been made here before and I just don’t agree with it. Alex retweeting Kneecap is a minor act in the grand scheme of things. But it’s a mistake that we should expect our peers and especially our role models to not make.

People are dying and your worried about tweets!? Well, yes I actually do worry about people losing their sense of right and wrong when a crisis on the other side of the world is unfolding.

I’m glad to hear from you though mate

You too, thanks.


It's deeper than that.
It's a band that is anti-'things'.
Like, anti-colonialism etc. Their claim to fame was about the reunification of Ireland, which has clear implications of support for the IRA etc.
So them calling out support against the IDF, and in support of resistant groups is their marketing. They don't know what the **** they're talking about or what's actually happening. They're just standing for what they believe is 'right'.
And that follows through with Pearce. He's 'anti-establishment'.

There is so much misinformation, how do you know what's good or bad anymore?
There are people in this thread who can't condemn Hezbollah... And they spend most of their life online.


The point is, Kneecap is a wannabe RATM, without the grounding, understanding or reasoning behind it.
It doesn't mean they are terrorists, or that people without any understanding that support them are terrorists.

Yes, they should be condemned, yes they shouldn't be idolised for it.
But they're not evil or terrorists. Their uneducated position is noble.

The problem is, how do we break this divisive rhetoric and get more people to engage with the facts and available information?

There are a lot of people who believe that they are 'the movement'. Which means that anything they think, is fact, and anything that opposes them is genocidal behaviour.
They're no longer pro-Palestine, they're just pro-themselves.

I hope you're well.

 

[evolved2]

For you, this will forever be a story about Kneecap, for others, it’s a story about an AFL player speaking out against genocide. You express no concern that Israel is conducting the largest scale genocide of the 21st century, and so nobody respects your opinion. You expect everyone to be concerned with Kneecap and Hamas, whose significance is negligible.

Is it a greater genocide than Darfur?

 

[ReturningHawk]

Is it a greater genocide than Darfur?

On par, according to this: “Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential”

 

[Number37]

What happened to you? You used to be so genuine and reasonable.


I am directly asking you if you generally support Hezbollah, and you're asking me what your position is.
You don't know?
You haven't thought about it?
You have a position but don't think you can defend it honestly?


Why have you turned into the standard right wing/'centrist' in terms of disingenuous discussion?

Imagine the furtherest position on the left.
Then take a telescope and look further left.
If you squint, you might see me.

Your questions are just bait.
Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Do you have any relatives from Balnarring?


In 2013, 19 years after he became President, the USA removed Nelson Mandela from their terrorist list.
Operation Cyclone, run by the CIA, was the primary source of funds for the Afghan Majahideen.
Saddam
Gaddafi

The list of terrorist one day, not a terrorist the next, is a mile long.

So, you can ask stupid questions so that you can try to bait me, if you want.

I support anyone, and everyone, who stands up to oppression.

 

[CM86]

Imagine the furtherest position on the left.
Then take a telescope and look further left.
If you squint, you might see me.

Your questions are just bait.
Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Do you have any relatives from Balnarring?


In 2013, 19 years after he became President, the USA removed Nelson Mandela from their terrorist list.
Operation Cyclone, run by the CIA, was the primary source of funds for the Afghan Majahideen.
Saddam
Gaddafi

The list of terrorist one day, not a terrorist the next, is a mile long.

So, you can ask stupid questions so that you can try to bait me, if you want.

I support anyone, and everyone, who stands up to oppression.

Such massive meaningless statements.
OK, stop being a coward and state your actual position...

Do you support Hezbollah in general?

Do you support Hezbollah in general?
If you do, why?
If you don't, why not?

 

[Number37]

Such massive meaningless statements.
OK, stop being a coward and state your actual position...


Do you support Hezbollah in general?
If you do, why?
If you don't, why not?

I support anyone, and everyone, who stands up to oppression.

 

[Number37]

CM86
Instead of making glib statements and trying to bait people, educate yourself.
Start by reading "The Awakening of Latin America".

 

[ElectricG]

Come on man. I gave you my completely transparent, probably shit take on the conflict for everyone to critique. Just answer the question.

 

[CM86]

Do you support Hezbollah in general?

Number37 What's the bait?
What do you think you're being tricked into saying with this?

Do you support Hezbollah in general?
If you do, why?
If you don't, why not?

What's going on? What do you think the trap is?
What's the worst possible answer you could give, that you think you're being baited into?


You seem to be saying that yes, you do support Hezbollah, but you're too scared to state it in case you've no idea what the **** you're talking about...

 

[Number37]

Number37 What's the bait?

nek minit

You seem to be saying that yes, you do support Hezbollah, but you're too scared to state it in case you've no idea what the **** you're talking about...

Ta da.