Society & Culture Ali vs Tyson

[Changaneen]

Ali Ali Ali !!

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Ali will always be the greatest to me, he transcended sport like no other. Having said that, at their absolute peak I think Tyson might have got him. Just!

I watched Ali fights in the 70s after he came back from prison, he wasn't as good physically but he was good enough and smarter. He was tough too, just watch the Thriller in Manilla if you don't think he was.

Tyson as others have said was a beast. He was lightning quick and punishing. He would simply smash defences out of the way and then pulverise opponents. He could take a punch too. He was only a shadow of himself when he got out of prison, he had lost all of his timing. He could certainly take a punch too, it took Holyfield in their first fight around 15 to 20 clean head shots to put him away.

It gave me goosebumps and I'm happy to admit I teared up a bit when Ali lit the flame at the Atlanta Olympics in '96. What a human being he's been over the journey.

 

[crownie]

What a human being he's been over the journey

in what way?

going on some of the stories i have heard he was just like Shane Warne away from his sport.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

in what way?

going on some of the stories i have heard he was just like Shane Warne away from his sport.

Are you serious? Have a read up on him. Yes ,it is said that there were infidelities but do you ever remember seeing him in the tabloids everyday like Warnie, being a media ****? Are you even old enough to remember?

It started when he came home from the Olympics with a gold medal and threw it into a lake as a protest against the black and white segregation. It included him standing up to the Government and telling them why would he want to go and hurt the yellow people in Vietnam when they'd never done him any harm. He was hated by mainstream for it, but didn't care, he took a principled stance and paid the price for it with the best years of his career. The Rumble in the Jungle, he gave hope and inspiration to untold numbers of African children.

When Mandela was released there was a big bash thrown. Ali was there and Mandela was heard to whisper, 'The Champ' in awe of Ali's presence.

The list goes on and on of his effect on people with his mere presence. The whole world will mourn when he passes, I don't think the same could be said for when Tyson and Warnie go.

 

[crownie]

Are you serious? Have a read up on him. Yes ,it is said that there were infidelities but do you ever remember seeing him in the tabloids everyday like Warnie, being a media ****? Are you even old enough to remember?

he enjoyed the media build ups before his fights and was pretty controversial with some of the things he said, he even got away with racist remarks about Joe Frazier before their fight.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Teofilo Stevenson, tbh.

 

[Power King]

FFS people, Ali went 8 rounds being pounded by George Foreman, who was the Tyson of his day. No question, Ali would win.

This is what makes me lean toward Ali whenever I hear this hypothetical match-up brought up.

I mean, give Tyson a few clean shots at Ali's head and he'd be knocked down, but at his prime, Ali's reflexes were ****ing phenomenal. Boxing is not the equivalent of a street brawl. People also forget how much power Ali copped from Foreman and Frazier, who were as someone mentioned, the Tysons of their day.

If Ali could take Tyson to the 6th round or beyond, he'd make a fool of him. The question is whether he'd get there, and I'd say that based on his athleticism, reflexes and jab at his prime - yes he would.

In fairness to Tyson regarding not being a top ten HW of all time for example, those lists are usually compiled based on overall careers. If it comes to careers, then Ali wins hands down, but it's about who would win at their prime. At his prime, Tyson was possibly the most savage boxer ever, and it is Tyson's prime that allows for these comparisons with Ali.

If we're looking at the prime of the HW's throughout history, how the hell is Tyson not considered amongst the best?

As for Ali being a 'media whore', I think the fact that he transcended the sport not just in terms of his fighting ability but in the way he stood up for social and political issues overshadows any memories people might have (rightly or wrongly) of the way he mocked/belittled his opponents as well as ****ed every female within a three metre radius of his dick. Then again, which male sporting superstar of the planet does not do the latter? I think what he did for raising the awareness of certain issues within America at the time excuses in people's minds the way he publicly trash talked opponents. Why else is his public trash-talking looked upon with glee when any other sporting superstar before or after him would not be able to get away with it?

 

[Asgardian]

Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods, Don Bradman, Walter Lindrum, Eddy Merckx, Pele, Babe Ruth, Rod Laver, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, there are few immortals in sport.

Ali is one of them, Tyson is not.

 

[Chirf]

he enjoyed the media build ups before his fights and was pretty controversial with some of the things he said, he even got away with racist remarks about Joe Frazier before their fight.

saw a documentary, called him a gorilla didn't he?

not sure about the racist bit considering they are both afr/amer, although there was a bit made about the fact that frazier was always very dark.
frazier has looked after ali a lot in his declining years from what i've read also.

 

[jerry springer]

70's Foreman would of murdered Tyson

 

[Spudregus_87]

Ali.

Greatest Sportsperson ever IMO.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Teofilo Stevenson, tbh.

You may as well say Savon then since they both won 3 Olympic golds in a row. Stevenson was very lucky to win the third, spent most of the fight hanging onto his Russian opponent.

 

[Caesar]

Definitely Ali, but Rocky Marciano would whup both their sorry asses.

 

[Chirf]

You may as well say Savon then since they both won 3 Olympic golds in a row. Stevenson was very lucky to win the third, spent most of the fight hanging onto his Russian opponent.

not really lucky, he absolutely demolished his opponents in the other olympics, this time the russian was a bit smarter and didn't get ko'd.
savon was outstanding but stevenson was brutal and possibly in the same destructive class as tyson.

 

[Power King]

Definitely Ali, but Rocky Marciano would whup both their sorry asses.

Why?

Ali's career is tested and proven against some of the best that ever did it in their prime.

 

[Caesar]

Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Joe Louis were no mugs. Moore is considered by many to be the best pound-for-pound fighter of all time, although I prefer Sugar Ray Robinson.

You can only fight what's put in front of you, and you can't beat perfection.

 

[Bazzar]

Larry Holmes was superior to Ali, so much so Dundee signed him on a lucrative deal as his sparing partner knowing he could never challenge him in the ring. But he did when Ali made his last come back and was smacked senseless.

Marciano was the greatest ever, and pound for pound Monzon by a mile.

 

[Korn]

Tyson for me. Anyone saw his documentary? His punches during his prime were amazingly fast.
Ali wasn't even the greatest in his era. He is more famous for his personality.

 

[Power King]

Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Joe Louis were no mugs. Moore is considered by many to be the best pound-for-pound fighter of all time, although I prefer Sugar Ray Robinson.

You can only fight what's put in front of you, and you can't beat perfection.

I really disagree with this notion of 'perfection'. I'd rather a fighter who beat anybody and everybody in their prime compared to someone that has an undefeated record that fought in an inferior era.

Louis was finished by the time Marciano fought him. Moore was past it. Not to say that Marciano's era was nothing, but it doesn't compare to Ali's in my opinion.

I also think there's a case to say that Louis > Marciano.

I mean, let's compare the careers of Pacquiao and Mayweather. Mayweather is undefeated but if you compare their careers, Pacquiao's in my opinion is clearly the greater one when you put their opponents into context (who would win head to head is a completely different argument altogether, one in which I lean slightly toward Mayweather winning).

 

[The OBSTacle]

In their prime, Ali wouldn't have stopped Tyson, and he would have to in order to beat Tyson.

Rope a dope just don't work on short pitbull heavyweights with concrete hands.

After 25 years of age Tyson would not have gotten near Ali.

 

[Power King]

Rope a dope just don't work on short pitbull heavyweights with concrete hands.

I disagree. Rope-a-dope may be Ali's most famous tactic used, but in no way was it the only one he used. Joe Frazier was a 'short pitbull heavyweight'.

It's an interesting hypothetical match-up, but as I mentioned, if Ali could take Tyson to say the 6th round or beyond, where Tyson was unproven at his prime, I believe there's a strong argument there to say that Ali would not only win, but win via having the fight stopped (KO, TKO etc).

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Tyson for me. Anyone saw his documentary? His punches during his prime were amazingly fast. Ali wasn't even the greatest in his era. He is more famous for his personality.

**** me. Where to even start with this.

I loved Tyson in his prime, but he wouldn't get near Ali. Tyson doesn't deserve to be even mentioned in the same sentence as him.

 

[Bazzar]

Tyson doesn't deserve to be even mentioned in the same sentence as him.(Ali)

They share one thing in common. Both are first class assholes.

 

[The OBSTacle]

I disagree. Rope-a-dope may be Ali's most famous tactic used, but in no way was it the only one he used. Joe Frazier was a 'short pitbull heavyweight'.

Two differences.

1) Tysons technique was very different to Fraziers.
2) Tyson punched harder than Frazier.

It's an interesting hypothetical match-up, but as I mentioned, if Ali could take Tyson to say the 6th round or beyond, where Tyson was unproven at his prime, I believe there's a strong argument there to say that Ali would not only win, but win via having the fight stopped (KO, TKO etc).

IMO, Ali's jab couldn't keep a 22 year old Tyson out for 5 rounds. Tyson would get inside and K.O. Ali.

However, even exposed form is misleading considering Ali missed 3 years and 9 months of what should have been the prime years of his boxing career.

Here is a very interesting article from a boxing afficianado who took Tyson back in time and projected how his career would have gone matched up with the fighters of Alis time leading up to the first Sonny Liston fight:

So to June 27 1963; Tyson verses Clay/Ali. The winner was guaranteed a shot against the ‘awesome’ Champion Sonny Liston. Ali entered the bout with a perfect 18-0 record, Tyson was 33-1(30), the bout was scheduled for 12, Tyson was the 1-4 odds on Favourite.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing-article/Tyson-Ali-prime.html

 

[Ruck Machine]

Larry Holmes was superior to Ali, so much so Dundee signed him on a lucrative deal as his sparing partner knowing he could never challenge him in the ring. But he did when Ali made his last come back and was smacked senseless.

Marciano was the greatest ever, and pound for pound Monzon by a mile.

I agree Larry was superior to Ali. Larry would've beaten him Prime vs Prime. Marciano was certainly NOT the greatest HW of All Time.

Pound for Pound Monzon is right up their, if not the best. Monzon would've KO'd SRR and beaten Hagler by decision.