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Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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I'm also a bit worried about this gatorade.

people love to say "BuT rIcHmOnD wErE aLwAyS gOoD!!"

Richmond had just come off 3 consecutive embarrassing finals campaigns, followed by finishing 13th with a 100pt+ smacking in the final round, Deledio wanted out, there was almost a board spill, Dusty wasn't even "Dusty" yet, Cotchin had a default Brownlow 5 years prior and was seen as a poor leader, they spent their best years giving blokes like Chaplin and Morris games, Jack Riewoldt had gone from Coleman medallist to 'up-the-ground decoy', Dimma was universally hated by the supporters, Treloar snubbed them and the only big name to land there was a fat Chris Yarran.

I'll admit I personally can't see the list with Essendon, but nobody saw the list with Richmond in 2017, or Geelong in 07.

For a club as big as Essendon, and for being crap so long - I'm always worried about them tbh.

McGrath, Ridley, Shiel, Daniher, Hooker, Stringer, Fantasia, Tippa... it's not a horrid list.
I've said this on the main board as well, in the Dodoro thread. Too many people are looking at what's being produced now, instead of a) what was produced at times last year and the year before (in seasons unaffected by the pandemic, and where their form was much, much better) and b) what can be done when the team gets a bit of continuity. They've had Hooker, Hurley, Daniher, Stringer, Heppell on the sidelines for substantial periods of time; what people forget most about the Tiger's run in 2017 is the blessed run they had with injuries keeping what was - at the time - quite a shallow pool of A graders out there and playing good, consistent footy. If they keep Daniher (and I do not see why he'd choose to go to Sydney at the beginning of a rebuild, Joe's not so young anymore) and they can get him and the others to stay on the park, and they can get in a quality defensive winger (someone like Butters) and someone to compensate for the loss of McKenna, they really aren't far off in terms of potential production.

I still maintain that it's as much gameplan and fitness related as anything else. They produce clean ball at the wrong parts of the ground, and go for kicks to targets that are 40m out from goal, and in general (outside of Tippa) players are better shots within 30m from goal. I hope that my theory (that someone within the club is interfering with the structures, forcing the football department to play conventional footy with unconventional parts) is true, because if that's the case they're genuinely f’ed.

Oh, and I really do not like Draper. As a ruckman, he's too distracted by the idea of crashing into someone else ahead of tapping or getting the ball; he looks like a yokel, and behaves like a thug. I don't get why they like him; one would've thought they'd prefer to win the ruck and have him tapping it well clear because they lack inside players, but whatever.
 

Sector 7G

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2009
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I've said this on the main board as well, in the Dodoro thread. Too many people are looking at what's being produced now, instead of a) what was produced at times last year and the year before (in seasons unaffected by the pandemic, and where their form was much, much better) and b) what can be done when the team gets a bit of continuity. They've had Hooker, Hurley, Daniher, Stringer, Heppell on the sidelines for substantial periods of time; what people forget most about the Tiger's run in 2017 is the blessed run they had with injuries keeping what was - at the time - quite a shallow pool of A graders out there and playing good, consistent footy. If they keep Daniher (and I do not see why he'd choose to go to Sydney at the beginning of a rebuild, Joe's not so young anymore) and they can get him and the others to stay on the park, and they can get in a quality defensive winger (someone like Butters) and someone to compensate for the loss of McKenna, they really aren't far off in terms of potential production.

I still maintain that it's as much gameplan and fitness related as anything else. They produce clean ball at the wrong parts of the ground, and go for kicks to targets that are 40m out from goal, and in general (outside of Tippa) players are better shots within 30m from goal. I hope that my theory (that someone within the club is interfering with the structures, forcing the football department to play conventional footy with unconventional parts) is true, because if that's the case they're genuinely f’ed.

Oh, and I really do not like Draper. As a ruckman, he's too distracted by the idea of crashing into someone else ahead of tapping or getting the ball; he looks like a yokel, and behaves like a thug. I don't get why they like him; one would've thought they'd prefer to win the ruck and have him tapping it well clear because they lack inside players, but whatever.
*'s best last year didn't stack up against good teams
* have very few good players under 25
*'s players over 25 are falling off a cliff

Who from their list would you want on our list?
McGrath would make a good back pocket for us
Ridley is a nice intercept 3rd tall
Merrett is a good accumulator but chases easy kicks
Saad is quick but is seems reluctant to be tackled so runs like good old emu

After that I m struggling - Draper looks a promising Tall ruck.

No early draft picks for for the last 2 years means they are lacking young talent.

They need to accept where their list is at and rebuild. The only players they can trade out to start the rebuild are the ones they traded in and Joe.
 

chunkylover53

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Aug 13, 2008
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*'s best last year didn't stack up against good teams
* have very few good players under 25
*'s players over 25 are falling off a cliff

Who from their list would you want on our list?
McGrath would make a good back pocket for us
Ridley is a nice intercept 3rd tall
Merrett is a good accumulator but chases easy kicks
Saad is quick but is seems reluctant to be tackled so runs like good old emu

After that I m struggling - Draper looks a promising Tall ruck.

No early draft picks for for the last 2 years means they are lacking young talent.

They need to accept where their list is at and rebuild. The only players they can trade out to start the rebuild are the ones they traded in and Joe.
you've talked down a few of their better players there; all of them would make us a better side. McGrath would be in our midfield, Merrett is the accumulator most teams need, and Saad is a pretty handy running HBF.

the no young talent is the problem, spent 2 first rounders on Shiel, no kids to have breakout years to take them to the next level, Parish maybe? but they've butchered his development.

weird club. I hope they stay mediocre forever, i feel like they have more to give before rebuilding though.
 

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Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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*'s best last year didn't stack up against good teams
* have very few good players under 25
*'s players over 25 are falling off a cliff

Who from their list would you want on our list?
McGrath would make a good back pocket for us
Ridley is a nice intercept 3rd tall
Merrett is a good accumulator but chases easy kicks
Saad is quick but is seems reluctant to be tackled so runs like good old emu

After that I m struggling - Draper looks a promising Tall ruck.

No early draft picks for for the last 2 years means they are lacking young talent.

They need to accept where their list is at and rebuild. The only players they can trade out to start the rebuild are the ones they traded in and Joe.
Players 25 years or younger that I really do not mind as far as good average prospects or better in their position:
Guelfi: As a midfielder/forward, he's essentially as good as Gibbons, even if he's more a true forward flanker rather than Gibbons' midfield chops.
Fantasia: Hasn't quite lived up to his profile, but it isn't his fault that BT likes saying his name.
Francis: Is extremely talented, but in terms of size is a tweener; not tall enough to play much more than undersized as a KPD, but plays too tall to be a general defender.
Langford: I genuinely rate Langford as both a leadup forward - which he's done to terrific effect, and is a wonderful set shot - and a midfield rotation in the absence of a quality inside midfielder.
McGrath: I wouldn't have drafted him with pick 1, and is a straight line player (which will undermine all attempts to turn him into a midfielder, IMO) but will still be captain of that club at some point.
Merrett: He'd walk into our team, and consign Murphy to retirement or seconds footy.
Parish: He's truly vanilla, but again in the absence of a true inside mid he's a good supply of clearances and contested ball to pass out onto the wings, where they've got plenty of runners.
Redman: He's flown under the radar a lot, but maybe because I was a back pocket I tend towards paying them a bit more attention than some might. He's not slow, is very good at intercepting a high ball for his height; he looks like WC's Brad Sheppard. He's also quite a nice accurate long kick of the ball.
Zerk-Thatcher: Extremely early days, and looks as raw as Cottrell does, but he's got a bit of presence and isn't afraid of contact.

There are more young players there who could have been on this list, but they're unproven as far as I'm concerned. In the very post I quoted, I stated why I didn't like Draper; because they aren't big on ballwinning, they of all sides need a dominant tap ruckman, akin to Sandilands. Draper to this point is easily distracted, doesn't possess a great leap, and doesn't play smart.

Now, there's a reason the comparison to Richmond could be apt; they - Richmond in 2016 - didn't stack up against the teams above them, either. They were mentally weak in each of the three years they made finals, and they struggled when sides brought pressure to them, so they changed their game from a time in possession game to a pressure game. It took astute coaching and a bit of innovation, but they created one of the cleverest gameplay innovations in AFL history; a means by which to exhaust an opposition through their own game.

Essendon are doing something different, and for all intents and purposes it looks as though they could be f’ed. After all, Richmond's key movers were in their prime in 2016, they weren't going to get more from Riewoldt or Cotchin and they traded Deledio; how were they going to respond without him to get them going when the game got hot, and who would make it work? We now know the answer to that; Dusty, and they built their games around him using his power as a weapon against tired players.

I hope you're right, and you're welcome to bookmark this and these posts to have a giggle at me in future. But I think there's more going on here, and they're at least 2-3 years before the good players truly start to taper off; they sort themselves out in that time, there's plenty of time to add layers or correct the coaching. They have enough there for me to be wary of their prospects.
 

thylacine60

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James Hirds favourite biochemist just got fined $63k for claiming to be able to cure COVID-19.

Charters, snake oil salesman extraordinarie
just makes sense to have him start injecting your players with an unknown substance, an unknown amount of times in an unknown place - it's win win for mine
 

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BigFrizz36

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Mar 20, 2017
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Players 25 years or younger that I really do not mind as far as good average prospects or better in their position:
Guelfi: As a midfielder/forward, he's essentially as good as Gibbons, even if he's more a true forward flanker rather than Gibbons' midfield chops.
Fantasia: Hasn't quite lived up to his profile, but it isn't his fault that BT likes saying his name.
Francis: Is extremely talented, but in terms of size is a tweener; not tall enough to play much more than undersized as a KPD, but plays too tall to be a general defender.
Langford: I genuinely rate Langford as both a leadup forward - which he's done to terrific effect, and is a wonderful set shot - and a midfield rotation in the absence of a quality inside midfielder.
McGrath: I wouldn't have drafted him with pick 1, and is a straight line player (which will undermine all attempts to turn him into a midfielder, IMO) but will still be captain of that club at some point.
Merrett: He'd walk into our team, and consign Murphy to retirement or seconds footy.
Parish: He's truly vanilla, but again in the absence of a true inside mid he's a good supply of clearances and contested ball to pass out onto the wings, where they've got plenty of runners.
Redman: He's flown under the radar a lot, but maybe because I was a back pocket I tend towards paying them a bit more attention than some might. He's not slow, is very good at intercepting a high ball for his height; he looks like WC's Brad Sheppard. He's also quite a nice accurate long kick of the ball.
Zerk-Thatcher: Extremely early days, and looks as raw as Cottrell does, but he's got a bit of presence and isn't afraid of contact.

There are more young players there who could have been on this list, but they're unproven as far as I'm concerned. In the very post I quoted, I stated why I didn't like Draper; because they aren't big on ballwinning, they of all sides need a dominant tap ruckman, akin to Sandilands. Draper to this point is easily distracted, doesn't possess a great leap, and doesn't play smart.

Now, there's a reason the comparison to Richmond could be apt; they - Richmond in 2016 - didn't stack up against the teams above them, either. They were mentally weak in each of the three years they made finals, and they struggled when sides brought pressure to them, so they changed their game from a time in possession game to a pressure game. It took astute coaching and a bit of innovation, but they created one of the cleverest gameplay innovations in AFL history; a means by which to exhaust an opposition through their own game.

Essendon are doing something different, and for all intents and purposes it looks as though they could be f’ed. After all, Richmond's key movers were in their prime in 2016, they weren't going to get more from Riewoldt or Cotchin and they traded Deledio; how were they going to respond without him to get them going when the game got hot, and who would make it work? We now know the answer to that; Dusty, and they built their games around him using his power as a weapon against tired players.

I hope you're right, and you're welcome to bookmark this and these posts to have a giggle at me in future. But I think there's more going on here, and they're at least 2-3 years before the good players truly start to taper off; they sort themselves out in that time, there's plenty of time to add layers or correct the coaching. They have enough there for me to be wary of their prospects.
Would have thought that ridley was their best young player. Clearly mcgrath and Merritt are good b graders who kight push to A - but the likes of Redman, guelfi, laverde etc are just genuine list cloggers.

I can't see any way that their current list goes anywhere without a completeblist overhaul. I say again that without joe tgat there potential key forwards are Townsend, Stewart and mckernan. That is literally below the bottom of the barrel.
 

hoddo22

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Jan 22, 2011
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C'mon guys it's time to give * a bit of a break and get around them. Really encourage them for their last match of the season so they can go into summer with a bit of a smile on their face.

(We really need them to beat Melbourne next week for us to be any chance of making the finals).

On SM-A530F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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