All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[gouki88]

If it’s JB in charge and that Nordic model then count me in.

Viva the revolution!

No Nordic half-arsing here

 

[Markfs]

great work by lawyers etc submitting complaints to the UK police about the country's politicians and their involvement in the starvation of the palestinians. It's another example of showing people in power that there are consequences to following orders from israel and internal jewish organisations. You cant just shrug and take the money or the free trip. Obviously, the pommie police arent going to drop into parliament and arrest some pollies. But like the earlier ICC measures, its keeping the pressure on...

UK complaint alleges politicians’ complicity in Israeli ‘war crimes’

UK police say they are assessing the claims made by International Centre of Justice for Palestinians.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[ZEV]

great work by lawyers etc submitting complaints to the UK police about the country's politicians and their involvement in the starvation of the palestinians. It's another example of showing people in power that there are consequences to following orders from israel and internal jewish organisations. You cant just shrug and take the money or the free trip. Obviously, the pommie police arent going to drop into parliament and arrest some pollies. But like the earlier ICC measures, its keeping the pressure on...

UK complaint alleges politicians’ complicity in Israeli ‘war crimes’

UK police say they are assessing the claims made by International Centre of Justice for Palestinians.

www.aljazeera.com

This was an interesting quote from the article.

Tayab Ali, director of the ICJP and head of international law at Bindmans LLP, said: “Complicity comes in many forms, whether that be providing political cover, encouraging criminal acts or supplying weapons.”

I hope for the sake of the nineteen medical professionals they are not complicit with any proscribed terror organisations given their involvement in the region.

 

[Markfs]

This was an interesting quote from the article.

Tayab Ali, director of the ICJP and head of international law at Bindmans LLP, said: “Complicity comes in many forms, whether that be providing political cover, encouraging criminal acts or supplying weapons.”

I hope for the sake of the nineteen medical professionals they are not complicit with any proscribed terror organisations given their involvement in the region.

i'm sure the israelis will try to gain revenge by portraying doctors operating on hamas operatives as supporting terror.....the israelis capacity for revenge has no limits...

 

[ZEV]

i'm sure the israelis will try to gain revenge by portraying doctors operating on hamas operatives as supporting terror.....the israelis capacity for revenge has no limits...

Why would Israel want revenge for some English people reporting English people to the English Police?

 

[Markfs]

Penny Wong has admitted that Australia is still negotiating with Israel to get information about the death of the Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom.

Evidently, there is a payment involved and a possible contract on the export of human organs.....

 

[JB1975]

These micro fragments of the larger story of mass murder should always be tempered by the possibility that such lives might have been somehow entwined with the proscribed terror organisation Hamas.

 

[Markfs]

Israelis will wake up later to the good news of two developments in gaza. UNRWA has closed its food warehouse in gaza because of its inability to distribute food securely, and the Americans have stopped distribution of the food from their famous pier....

Both developments should hasten the desired outcome...although secondary matters involving hostages might suffer.

 

[ZEV]

Israelis will wake up later to the good news of two developments in gaza. UNRWA has closed its food warehouse in gaza because of its inability to distribute food securely, and the Americans have stopped distribution of the food from their famous pier....

Both developments should hasten the desired outcome...although secondary matters involving hostages might suffer.

Has this warehouse and pier been attacked by Hamas at any point?

 

[Markfs]

These micro fragments of the larger story of mass murder should always be tempered by the possibility that such lives might have been somehow entwined with the proscribed terror organisation Hamas.

As Israel’s president Isaac Herzog stated, as Likud member, Nissim Vaturi, stated, as long serving minister, Avigdor Liberman stated.....i could go on......"there are no innocents in gaza". These children are obviously terrorists.

 

[JB1975]

As Israel’s president Isaac Herzog stated, as Likud member, Nissim Vaturi, stated, as long serving minister, Avigdor Liberman stated.....i could go on......"there are no innocents in gaza". These children are obviously terrorists.

Their links with the proscribed terrorist organisation Hamas must be assumed.

Or there does seem to be a common view that Palestinians are sub-human and that their lives are of considerably less value than the rest of us.

For this reason, Sabreen's trip from the beach to body bag isn't especially noteworthy in today's media.

 

[Markfs]

Their links with the proscribed terrorist organisation Hamas must be assumed.

Or there does seem to be a common view that Palestinians are sub-human and that their lives are of considerably less value than the rest of us.

For this reason, Sabreen's trip from the beach to body bag isn't especially noteworthy in today's media.

I'm not criticising and I understand the requirements to get the message through, but I'm uneasy with these sorts of propaganda methods. It's something that the israelis have done for years and while I am impressed with the various tricks and images that israelis have used on their journey to the promised land, it still doesn't fit well with me when the same methods are used by palestinian supporters. I think palestinians should continue to use legal methods and should certainly reward and threaten american representatives to get a palestinian homeland, but videos of dead kids with cheesy songs in the background....well...

And dont get too depressed thinking that palestinians are worth less than the rest of us. We are all worth less than the Israelis. That's the key point. The possible exception is Americans, at least for the time being.

 

[ZEV]

Their links with the proscribed terrorist organisation Hamas must be assumed.

Or there does seem to be a common view that Palestinians are sub-human and that their lives are of considerably less value than the rest of us.

For this reason, Sabreen's trip from the beach to body bag isn't especially noteworthy in today's media.

I was really depressed about this and made an account on x and was reading through Nour Naim's media posts.

Something felt wrong and I remembered a discussion with the notorious Ghost Patrol where he instructed me to look at "the hands" as an indicator of AI generated content.

Loe and behold a significant amount of the murdered medical staff Nour posted had majorly malformed and weird hands. I initially thought it might be a one off freak event but it was a very consistent theme in her hourly media posts.

I was as equally surprised to see that "Nour Naim is the Founder and Director of AI Minds. She is a researcher who is interested in Artificial Intelligence (AI) ethics, AI for social good, algorithmic bias, computer vision, machine learning, and natural language processing. Naim received her PhD from the Department of Management and Artificial Intelligence at Istanbul Aydin University, Turkey" - https://politicstoday.org/author/nour-naim/

Do you think this may be a reason why today's media may be reluctant as trusting Ms. Naim as a reliable source? Do you believe her?

 

[JB1975]

I'm not criticising and I understand the requirements to get the message through, but I'm uneasy with these sorts of propaganda methods. It's something that the israelis have done for years and while I am impressed with the various tricks and images that israelis have used on their journey to the promised land, it still doesn't fit well with me when the same methods are used by palestinian supporters. I think palestinians should continue to use legal methods and should certainly reward and threaten american representatives to get a palestinian homeland, but videos of dead kids with cheesy songs in the background....well...

And dont get too depressed thinking that palestinians are worth less than the rest of us. We are all worth less than the Israelis. That's the key point. The possible exception is Americans, at least for the time being.

It is propaganda of a sort, can't deny it.

I don't expect the lives of Palestinians to take precedence over Israeli lives, but some reminder of their humanity seems to be in order, especially because that humanity has been reduced to (contested) statistics.

 

[JB1975]

Do you think this may be a reason why today's media may be reluctant as trusting Ms. Naim as a reliable source? Do you believe her?

I don't think there's a market in the media for this sort of material, Zev. The media just aren't looking for the lives of those who no longer live in Gaza.

It's people like me who capture it, people trying to feel the need to put faces and stories to the numbers, people who care a bit more about the erasure of human experience.

I haven't noticed weird hands, but here's the thing: I'm not sure how much I care if I'm looking at a figure which has been AI-generated. In a world where mass murder can be denied despite the accumulation of different sources of evidence, I still feel like I'm bearing witness to something more real than the nothingness of today's media.

People have been slaughtered in their thousands, and so I'm looking at images of the unalive.

 

[ZEV]

I don't think there's a market in the media for this sort of material, Zev. The media just aren't looking for the lives of those who no longer live in Gaza.

It's people like me who capture it, people trying to feel the need to put faces and stories to the numbers, people who care a bit more about the erasure of human experience.

I haven't noticed weird hands, but here's the thing: I'm not sure how much I care if I'm looking at a figure which has been AI-generated. In a world where mass murder can be denied despite the accumulation of different sources of evidence, I still feel like I'm bearing witness to something more real than the nothingness of today's media.

People have been slaughtered in their thousands, and so I'm looking at images of the unalive.

I randomly searched for one of the dead doctors from Gaza in her thread.

He seems to be well and alive in Egypt continuing his 30+ year career in climate change research.

This false material serves no benefit to anyone and only creates more division. Be critical of the media. Be honest with yourself.

 

[JB1975]

Really, you don't have to search too hard to find the stories of dead people in Gaza, as long as you don't search in mainstream media and as long as you're not spending your time questioning the research interests of those who post about such things.

 

[JB1975]

I randomly searched for one of the dead doctors from Gaza in her thread.

He seems to be well and alive in Egypt continuing his 30+ year career in climate change research.

This false material serves no benefit to anyone and only creates more division. Be critical of the media. Be honest with yourself.

Which doctor?

And it would be strange that someone is fictionalising the deaths of people who are still alive, especially when there are so many dead to choose from?

 

[ZEV]

Which doctor?

And it would be strange that someone is fictionalising the deaths of people who are still alive, especially when there are so many dead to choose from?

Using AI generated images to suggest the IDF is targetting medical personnel forms part of the "media flood" recently called for by Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.

These comments were made during his address to the Flood of the Free conference hosted in Istanbul by the Muslim Brotherhood, his terrorist group’s parent organisation on May 22nd.

Where is Ms Naim based? If you guessed Turkey you are correct. She has made over 100 posts since he made that request.

 

[Black_White]

I love AI.
It brings out the real loonies.

 

[Markfs]

i'm waiting to see an AI post of mark regev pleading for honesty in the media....

 

[JB1975]

Using AI generated images to suggest the IDF is targetting medical personnel forms part of the "media flood" recently called for by Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.

These comments were made during his address to the Flood of the Free conference hosted in Istanbul by the Muslim Brotherhood, his terrorist group’s parent organisation on May 22nd.

Where is Ms Naim based? If you guessed Turkey you are correct. She has made over 100 posts since he made that request.

Misinformation is unfortunate.

There's no doubt that Israel's killing of media, medical people and children is fantastic fodder for Hamas propaganda.

There's no doubt that Israel's current campaign in Gaza --and its increased hostility in the West Bank-- has been a boost for Hamas communications.

Just for curiosity's sake, can you identify which medical people have been falsely identified as dead?

 

[JB1975]

I love AI.
It brings out the real loonies.

So it seems.

 

[Markfs]

The issue of tik-tok is interesting. There are those on it who say that the US is trying to put tik-tok into US hands because of this particular issue... not because of privacy issues.

The reality is that israel has been using propaganda on mainstream media and has rewarded and threatened the smart end of the spectrum of people in the US, expecting the great unwashed to follow in line. Previously, they did but it seems that tik-tok has tapped into a part of the US electorate that doesnt watch the nightly news and doesnt feel the guilt inflicted through the propaganda. Israel pulled Musk into line last year with twitter, but it cant do it on tik-tok so the argument rings true in this case. However, I would argue that americans just want to control everything, irrespective of the issue that they're citing. It is strange that a chinese entity is assisting the cause of democratic discussion in the West, although you could never argue that the chinese are promoting democracy.

 

[JB1975]

It can be hard work trying to convince the world that the people of Gaza are, in fact, quite human.