All things Politics

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It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:
  • direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
  • deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
  • abuse.
  • attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
  • Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
  • Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.
Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310
 
JB1975 said:
The poor fellow indeed. His changing position seems to reflect that he was shot numerous times because he had the temerity to not die after first being hit.

He held onto the aid, got to his feet, ran a bit further and was only then finished off.

I'm no expert in sniping, on or off the footy field, but the line of sight seems relatively clear to me.

-------------------------------------------------------

Given the numerous reports of Israeli snipers shooting and killing old and young Palestinians for little or no reason, this footage seems like a straightforward visual of what has been happening.
Click to expand...

everyone has overlooked the chicken....
 
ZEV said:
Does that footage show a clear line of sight between the "snipers" and the individual being shot or is there a shipping container size pile of rubble and debris?

Also not at all trying to be dismissive of the footage but the poor fellow is shown being shot and killed here south of the red debris in the bottom right corner as seen below;
View attachment 1950488

Then after a cut in the footage is shown north of the red debris. We can discount a change in the perspective of the camera person due to the continuous alignment of the debris.

View attachment 1950496
Click to expand...
Doesn't a bullet need a line of sight? Even the Yanks are turning off Israel at the moment. Supporting this war, or trying to find opposition propaganda isn't going to help Israel. Get on the ceasefire bandwagon. This war is threatening Israel's future.
 
Markfs said:
i watched one or two episodes to get a sense of the game...i might have tuned in for the ending. I cant remember.

i'm not sure about the second half of your post. It seems a bit stereotypical and it mixes jewish and israel, which is usually dangerous ground.

However, if I was to refer to them as klingons, I would say that the klingons are very sensitive to what others think because they need to control the complete narrative. Also Klingons need to be able to know who to attack next. You can apply this to the Klingons' war in zarcon against the athenians. They couldnt give a stuff about the athenians and treat them like animals, but the klingons monitor what the athenians post to the minute detail.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry markfs, I did that faze out kinda thing when you went all klingonee. Like survivor I never engaged in the whole klingon thing; was that from startrek?

Anyway, I am not surprised to have a post labelled stereotypical, as I have only a limited understanding of history.

My understanding is, generalizing, Jewish history is that of a culture spread in many regions of the world, that established its presence in different lands but was never/barely accepted as belonging to that land or nation. In many cases over millennia they were persecuted for their existence. In recent history the holocaust demonstrated that persecution, including the argument the holocaust didn't end with the second world war but continued beyond during Stalin's reign. Modern Israel began with the Zionist movement, which had to fight to exist and continues to this day an existential war. Putting together these factors I see an Isarael identity based on you (the rest of the world) haven't accepted us, you are quite capable of standing by when our existence is threatened or even turn against us, so #### the lot of you, we are going to do what we need to do to survive.

I believe the culture of Israel is, in part, a product of Jewish history. That is not to be confused with the notion that Israel and Jewish people/culture are one and the same. In my experience there are very distinct.
 

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sr36 said:
Doesn't a bullet need a line of sight? Even the Yanks are turning off Israel at the moment. Supporting this war, or trying to find opposition propaganda isn't going to help Israel. Get on the ceasefire bandwagon. This war is threatening Israel's future.
Click to expand...
Such a simple but accurate statement. Israeli politics, like many countries, has gone crazy. I am a half glass full kinda person. Israel is losing the support of their 'friends' but deepening the hatred of their enemies. It scares me that they have nuclear weapons. They are a surrogate western fort in the middle of a hostile land. Unless there is a dramatic change in world politics and the attitudes of the average person in that region they will be engaged in an existential war until the end.
 
noideaatall said:
I'm sorry markfs, I did that faze out kinda thing when you went all klingonee. Like survivor I never engaged in the whole klingon thing; was that from startrek?

Anyway, I am not surprised to have a post labelled stereotypical, as I have only a limited understanding of history.

My understanding is, generalizing, Jewish history is that of a culture spread in many regions of the world, that established its presence in different lands but was never/barely accepted as belonging to that land or nation. In many cases over millennia they were persecuted for their existence. In recent history the holocaust demonstrated that persecution, including the argument the holocaust didn't end with the second world war but continued beyond during Stalin's reign. Modern Israel began with the Zionist movement, which had to fight to exist and continues to this day an existential war. Putting together these factors I see an Isarael identity based on you (the rest of the world) haven't accepted us, you are quite capable of standing by when our existence is threatened or even turn against us, so #### the lot of you, we are going to do what we need to do to survive.

I believe the culture of Israel is, in part, a product of Jewish history. That is not to be confused with the notion that Israel and Jewish people/culture are one and the same. In my experience there are very distinct.
Click to expand...

yeh i forgot that post already too....as for you history story, it sounds good to me. I'd do a grammar check and submit it.
 
Markfs said:
yeh i forgot that post already too....as for you history story, it sounds good to me. I'd do a grammar check and submit it.
Click to expand...
I want an A+. Otherwise I am going to hang outstide your joint, pee on you car handles and all sorts of stuff. You read faster than I type.

ps: it was not history, it was mystory. his story is a load of mystories which I'm not keen on.
 
noideaatall said:
I want an A+. Otherwise I am going to hang outstide your joint, pee on you car handles and all sorts of stuff. You read faster than I type.

ps: it was not history, it was mystory. his story is a load of mystories which I'm not keen on.
Click to expand...

I have plenty of undesirables in the area already...but you're welcome to add to the list.
 
noideaatall said:
Such a simple but accurate statement. Israeli politics, like many countries, has gone crazy. I am a half glass full kinda person. Israel is losing the support of their 'friends' but deepening the hatred of their enemies. It scares me that they have nuclear weapons. They are a surrogate western fort in the middle of a hostile land. Unless there is a dramatic change in world politics and the attitudes of the average person in that region they will be engaged in an existential war until the end.
Click to expand...
I really don't understand the nuclear bomb thing. It's 1940s technology. I know it's advanced since then, but how does every country who wants it not have at least the 1940s version or be able to whip one up easily?
 
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sr36 said:
I really don't understand the nuclear bomb thing. It's 1940s technology. I know it's advanced since then, but how does every country who wants it not have at least the 1940s version or be able to whip one up easily?
Click to expand...
no idea. something about the material they need? Either they way its like playing russian roulette and thinking you have the better of your opponent. Worse case is you going @#$ the opponent, & #$% the lot of you - thats what I currently hear from Israeli propaganda. Beware the child in the playground who is willing to bite/'kick/spit to win. That is Israel atmo. That does not convince me they wouldn't drop a big bomb if treatened.
 
sr36 said:
I really don't understand the nuclear bomb thing. It's 1940s technology. I know it's advanced since then, but how does every country who wants it not have at least the 1940s version or be able to whip one up easily?
Click to expand...

i think part of it is the major countries have got a treaty together which they have got smaller countries to sign.....and only countries like israel, north korea and iran have the desire and perhaps the need to pursue it.

i think that i saw a program on tv that outlined how iran was pursuing it and the US actually sabotaged it remotely

Stuxnet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
personally i think australia should get the bomb...and rev up the population to encourage its use. I think it really helps when the whole population is crazy like north korea or israel.
 
Markfs said:
personally i think australia should get the bomb...and rev up the population to encourage its use. I think it really helps when the whole population is crazy like north korea or israel.
Click to expand...
We could warm up and build our confidence up by obliterating NZ. I don't think anyone would notice.
 
sr36 said:
We could warm up and build our confidence up by obliterating NZ. I don't think anyone would notice.
Click to expand...

if there's been anything clear about the last 6 months, it's that the use of firepower wins out. We need weapons and we need to spend some money... ignore the wokes...put a higher tax on the rich to pay for it...funnel it directly into weapons and tell the rich that they have the most to lose...
 

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i think we might need conscription and get those mealy mouths out of the leafy suburbs and show them how to kill....women too... it will improve them in corporate life too, just look at the israelis. Israel has crafted a pack of murderers who take videos of their work....who laugh and joke about killing people. Its so invaluable.
 
sr36 said:
I really don't understand the nuclear bomb thing. It's 1940s technology. I know it's advanced since then, but how does every country who wants it not have at least the 1940s version or be able to whip one up easily?
Click to expand...

Treaties aside, it's hard to procure weapons-grade uranium (isotope U-235 isn't sold at Coles :( ).
 
The israelis have assigned the blame. The drone operators and the commanders have been stood down. Evidently this is punishment for people who may have been called up as reserves...puzzling. Anyway, Biden will be happy and will probably say so...or his guy in the nice suit will say something ....and processes will proceed for the $18billion arms sale (or is it a donation) which is before the particular congressional committee....

I think that means that all the red lines have been dealt with and the israelis can get back to overseeing the starvation of hamas....just a blip really...
 
ZEV said:
IDF copping the blame for Ramadan as well now
Click to expand...

I appreciated that the israelis have always catered for non-jewish people in their occupied territories but once again, I think there has been a mis-communication between the parties involved. It seems that the islamic tradition of ramadan involves voluntarily not eating. I know that the israelis are pragmatists and are goal driven, but enforced starvation is probably not a wise option. Having said that, I think we're all aware of how much the enforced starvation is a key aspect to achieving Israel's primary goal of reforming the promised land. Shalom.
 
It seems that there has been significant job losses and a reduction in vacancies in the US media industry in recent years. There has also been a complementary rise in activities of private equity firms in the industry. A recent example is the media entity, Vice, which went broke and was taken over by private interests.

I think that most people who want a true reflection of what is happening in the world, have been disgruntled at the one-sided views of the share-based media companies. You could argue that Murdoch media is effectively a private equity firm because the family holds the shares so tightly, but it does have to report to the "market" although the importance of money-making is the key concern. If faceless private equity firms become the norm then media-consumers will largely be playing a game of pick your propaganda.

It seems to me that this has become the new media model. In the past, the single newspaper was responsible for providing both sides of the story and the reader largely decides their position - i think there are examples of this in media text book scenarios.

There's little doubt about the importance of entities like Aljazeera in bringing the palestinian story to the world. It too is a private equity firm owned by the Qatari gov't, and that becomes more noticeable as a topic nears something of concern to that gov't.

So the reality now involves cherry picking views from opposing organisations, where each provides their biased views based on the ideology/financial position of its owners. It's workable if both sides of the argument are available - i.e if there is money on both sides of the debate. However, you just have to think to yourself whether israel would be under any pressure at all, if Aljazeera didnt exist.
 
Markfs said:
It seems that there has been significant job losses and a reduction in vacancies in the US media industry in recent years. There has also been a complementary rise in activities of private equity firms in the industry. A recent example is the media entity, Vice, which went broke and was taken over by private interests.

I think that most people who want a true reflection of what is happening in the world, have been disgruntled at the one-sided views of the share-based media companies. You could argue that Murdoch media is effectively a private equity firm because the family holds the shares so tightly, but it does have to report to the "market" although the importance of money-making is the key concern. If faceless private equity firms become the norm then media-consumers will largely be playing a game of pick your propaganda.

It seems to me that this has become the new media model. In the past, the single newspaper was responsible for providing both sides of the story and the reader largely decides their position - i think there are examples of this in media text book scenarios.

There's little doubt about the importance of entities like Aljazeera in bringing the palestinian story to the world. It too is a private equity firm owned by the Qatari gov't, and that becomes more noticeable as a topic nears something of concern to that gov't.

So the reality now involves cherry picking views from opposing organisations, where each provides their biased views based on the ideology/financial position of its owners. It's workable if both sides of the argument are available - i.e if there is money on both sides of the debate. However, you just have to think to yourself whether israel would be under any pressure at all, if Aljazeera didnt exist.
Click to expand...

I'm a bit of a fan of Al Jazeera more generally, because it has some great coverage of things our 'home' media don't care much about.

But I haven't relied much at all on its coverage of the Israeli Death Forces.

The tangled ball of filth that is social media has been, I think, particularly useful over the last 6 months. It has given Palestinians the opportunity to talk about their own circumstances, which even the powerful in Arab countries don't otherwise care to see.
 
JB1975 said:
I'm a bit of a fan of Al Jazeera more generally, because it has some great coverage of things our 'home' media don't care much about.

But I haven't relied much at all on its coverage of the Israeli Death Forces.

The tangled ball of filth that is social media has been, I think, particularly useful over the last 6 months. It has given Palestinians the opportunity to talk about their own circumstances, which even the powerful in Arab countries don't otherwise care to see.
Click to expand...

I usually like unfiltered news and at least aljazeera have people in gaza. Hani Mahmoud is a hero of mine but is an obvious hamas operative. I fully support israel trying to kill him...He just shows no respect for jewish people.

Having said that about unfiltered news, I just cant watch israeli leaders like the IDF people and netinyahoo in press conferences. I just cant stand liars. If they were honest murderers, I wouldnt have that problem.
 
The interesting thing about the ageing representatives in the US congress, is the fact that they are ageing. For many, ageing results in a dulling of ideologies, a more pragmatic approach to life. Of course, there are other oldies who get increasingly intolerant of anyone who is different or has a different opinion.

The other aspect is the ability to reward or punish oldies. I know myself that I'm becoming increasingly less concerned about wealth as i get older. However for some, the proximity to death makes the scramble for money and power even more pressing. Yes, I'm talking about you Rupert.

So into this environment, we see that a group of democrat representatives have written to the President, saying that its inadvisable for the US to "transfer" weapons to Israelis...... $18billion worth....

So is it a bunch of oldies having second thoughts on supporting murderers? or is it a request for a pragmatic pause to allow time for the world to forget about the deaths of the aid workers. Could someone like Nancy Pelosi still be thinking about re-election?

 
Markfs said:
I appreciated that the israelis have always catered for non-jewish people in their occupied territories but once again, I think there has been a mis-communication between the parties involved. It seems that the islamic tradition of ramadan involves voluntarily not eating. I know that the israelis are pragmatists and are goal driven, but enforced starvation is probably not a wise option. Having said that, I think we're all aware of how much the enforced starvation is a key aspect to achieving Israel's primary goal of reforming the promised land. Shalom.
Click to expand...

Look, as a fortunate, well-educated and privileged Jew/Israeli/Australian I can assure you that real estate only makes up a small part of a well balanced asset/life portfolio.

We value our health, family and life above all material or aspirational possessions.

Gaza belongs to the Palestinians. We'll just have our people back thanks.
 
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