All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Markfs]

I think it might be fair to call what happened in Bondi a form of terrorism but no need to link it with religion or an ethnic group due to own bias.

I hope that the person that was wrongly named sues Ch7.

I don't understand why some feel they have to be first to spread 'news', especially when people have died.

I read some of the reporting on the how the wrongful naming of cohen came about...and the person who started it off was preening like a peacock in social media after the ch 7 report came out....validated its life really. It's like being an unpaid influencer. A Bec Judd without the payback. What a strange lot us humans are. I'm sure some expert could give a reason for how people behave in social media that goes back to cave-dwelling.

 

[Markfs]

No, it actually isnt fair Maggie. Terrorism is violence with a political motive. You have this wrong.

Too broad a definition, horsey. It cant be done by nation states who are aligned to the West, although it can be done by gov'ts like Iran and North Korea.

 

[Maggie5]

No, it actually isnt fair Maggie. Terrorism is violence with a political motive. You have this wrong.

Shoppers were terrified, it was a horrific and violent episode.

My point was not to immediately fallback and blame Islamic or other political group as being the reason as some have done on BF and in the media. If anything it was violence toward women as they seemed to be the main targets.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

Shoppers were terrified, it was a horrific and violent episode.

My point was not to immediately fallback and blame Islamic or other political group as being the reason as some have done on BF and in the media. If anything it was violence toward women as they seemed to be the main targets.

Maggie, terrorism has a specific meaning its not just "people were terrified". You are wrong on this, I cant state it more clearly. If this is the reason you dismissed my reports that is disappointing in the extreme.

 

[gouki88]

Shoppers were terrified, it was a horrific and violent episode.

My point was not to immediately fallback and blame Islamic or other political group as being the reason as some have done on BF and in the media. If anything it was violence toward women as they seemed to be the main targets.

We (as in Australia) work with a particular definition of terrorism, in order to differentiate it from other forms of violence. Our legal definition of terrorism defines acts of terrorism as meeting both the below criteria:

• advancing or seeking to advance a political or ideological cause and influence the public or government(s); and
• causes death or serious harm/danger to person/property, serious risk to health & safety of public, or a serious risk to critical infrastructure

That's why the Bondi event is not terrorism. It may be a case of misogynistic violent extremism (that is speculative based on the perpetrator's father's account & the victims, but definitely a potential aspect), but not terrorism.

Whether we think our definition of terrorism is adequate is probably another lengthy discussion (one I'm happy to have), as I am not sure our definition is perfect.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie, terrorism has a specific meaning its not just "people were terrified". You are wrong on this, I cant state it more clearly. If this is the reason you dismissed my reports that is disappointing in the extreme.

I just looked up the meaning of terrorism as you seem to have a different meaning to what I thought it meant.

The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear. Terrorism is intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

I am thinking in terms of the first sentence, perhaps you are right.

 

[Markfs]

I just looked up the meaning of terrorism as you seem to have a different meaning to what I thought it meant.

The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear. Terrorism is intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

I am thinking in terms of the first sentence, perhaps you are right.

The third sentence is also interesting. It's done to coerce gov'ts or the population.....it's never done by gov'ts. Somehow living under the threat of being bombed and starvation is not being terrorised. As they say, "To the victors, the spoils".

 

[sr36]

I just looked up the meaning of terrorism as you seem to have a different meaning to what I thought it meant.

The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear. Terrorism is intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

I am thinking in terms of the first sentence, perhaps you are right.

Yeah. Just because something causes terror doesn't mean it gets referred to as terrorism - otherwise every second news item would be deemed as terrorism.

 

[Maggie5]

Yeah. Just because something causes terror doesn't mean it gets referred to as terror - otherwise every second news item would be deemed as terrorism.

Okay. Seems I was wrong in my understanding of the word.

 

[sr36]

The third sentence is also interesting. It's done to coerce gov'ts or the population.....it's never done by gov'ts. Somehow living under the threat of being bombed and starvation is not being terrorised. As they say, "To the victors, the spoils".

It's not about power or victors - it's about it being a different crime with different courts involved.

Iran's attack on Israel isn't referred to as terrorism. The Iranian military isn't considered a terrorist group. Iran is viewed as sponsoring and supporting terrorism through the various groups that they help fund, but they're a nation state and thus not viewed as terrorists themselves.

 

[vindaloo]

Israel's attack on hamas isn't defined as terrorism.
American attack on Iraq isn't defined as terrorism.
Yet constantly in this thread it has been labeled as terrorism.
And without objection to those now seeking a strict definition as to what terrorism is all.of a sudden.

 

[Maggie5]

Israel's attack on hamas isn't defined as terrorism.
American attack on Iraq isn't defined as terrorism.
Yet constantly in this thread it has been labeled as terrorism.
And without objection to those now seeking a strict definition as to what terrorism is all.of a sudden.

I think it has been clearly explained and have accepted that I had it wrong, why not leave it at that?

You originally posted:

It did look like terrorism white nationalism or Islamic that's what it looked like.
Uncomfortable truth for you but both aides of the political spectrum.do this but you don't call out your side.

I didn't comment at the time as to me it didn't seem like that at all.

That is the way most media like to think to generate clicks.

 

[vindaloo]

You fwit.

I can't recall anyone discussing the actions of Israel or the US as 'terrorism'.

Genocide and complicity in genocide? Yes. War crimes? Absolutely.

You really are deficient.

Cliffdrabble America committed the worst terrorism we've ever seen.
Reported for the abuse btw.

 

[vindaloo]

I think it has been clearly explained and have accepted that I had it wrong, why not leave it at that?

You originally posted:


I didn't comment at the time as to me it didn't seem like that at all.

That is the way most media like to think to generate clicks.

Sorry maggie that post was for the people who were reporting my posts and wanted me cancelled... ironic
There's a lot of irony in this thread.
People need to calm down a bit in here.

 

[JB1975]

Cliffdrabble America committed the worst terrorism we've ever seen.
Reported for the abuse btw.

One poster makes for a tendency in the thread?

I was being polite in my previous post. You're a germ.

 

[leon123]

When I was a child, my older brother lets say picked on me, if I dobbed on him to mum, I was the one in trouble for dobbing.

Dobbers - phwww

 

[JB1975]

Sorry maggie that post was for the people who were reporting my posts and wanted me cancelled... ironic
There's a lot of irony in this thread.
People need to calm down a bit in here.

Man claims he is being cancelled whilst reporting others, then tells people to 'calm down'.

Keep it up.

 

[sr36]

Man claims he is being cancelled whilst reporting others, then tells people to 'calm down'.

Keep it up.

He sent me abusive PMs and then posted that I'd been stalking him. Most disingenuous poster on the board.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

Man claims he is being cancelled whilst reporting others, then tells people to 'calm down'.

Keep it up.

Hang on, I thought you were Kirby's burner account, are you now Clifdrabbles burner too? Or maybe you are my burner account.

Or maybe I am yours?

What are your thoughts on ponies?

 

[Maggie5]

Sorry maggie that post was for the people who were reporting my posts and wanted me cancelled... ironic
There's a lot of irony in this thread.
People need to calm down a bit in here.

You have completely misunderstood my post.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

there is one obvious problem on this board and particularly in this thread. It is as obvious as dogs balls. A disingenuous, trolling, attention seeking hypocrite who has been allowed to turn this place into his own personal sewer to the consternation and exasperation of all, who constantly acts and posts in bad faith.

I dont know how much more needs to be said and done really. Common sense should prevail, but common sense has been an uncommon virtue here for a while.

 

[ZEV]

there is one obvious problem on this board and particularly in this thread. It is as obvious as dogs balls. A disingenuous, trolling, attention seeking hypocrite who has been allowed to turn this place into his own personal sewer to the consternation and exasperation of all, who constantly acts and posts in bad faith.

I dont know how much more needs to be said and done really. Common sense should prevail, but common sense has been an uncommon virtue here for a while.

Leave Markfs alone.

 

[ZEV]

Vindy just said that he was referencing either Islamic or white nationalism with his terrorism comment.

Considering the context do you think it fair to say that he's thrown in white nationalism to make himself look more balanced?

The post that generated all the anger was this.

Mass stabbing in Sydney. Looks like domestic terrorism. Absolutely tragic.

I don't see any reference to Islam or the Muslim community. It is tragic, unfair and sad that the Muslim community are unfairly associated with terrorism. I don't think vindaloo expressed any form of discrimination here and was unfairly jumped on, probably based on his prior posting and views.

I think that the tensions that are in this thread are also present and probably more magnified in the wider community.

I think many of us here, myself the most, need to take a deep breath. It's been a hard six or so months.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

Leave Markfs alone.

Genuine lol. I will pay that one.

Nah, Markfs isnt half as bad, the terrifying or perhaps admirable depending on your point of view reality is I think he genuinely believes the wackadoodle stuff he comes up with, its level of nuance and sophistication recalling a bad year 7 english report in it's sumptuous ignorance, rather than just reaching around for any available grenade to throw for the lulz.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

The post that generated all the anger was this.



I don't see any reference to Islam or the Muslim community. It is tragic, unfair and sad that the Muslim community are unfairly associated with terrorism. I don't think vindaloo expressed any form of discrimination here and was unfairly jumped on, probably based on his prior posting and views.

I think that the tensions that are in this thread are also present and probably more magnified in the wider community.

I think many of us here, myself the most, need to take a deep breath. It's been a hard six or so months.

And I think you are being naive. The rest of us are unfortunately fully aware of where he was going, and by the way he confirmed it in subsequent posts so its not as if this was the sole reason. He had plenty of opportunity to clarify, he doubled down.

I think, to be blunt, his frequent support for your pov, which by the way I am not convinced is genuine but is part of his trolling, has made you unable to evaluate him honestly.

For the rest of us, he has long since run out of credits.