All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Markfs]

Relating to the above post, this is a lecture/Q&A that John gave to an australian audience a few days ago. He starts off with a lecture that isn't as eloquent as I would like - maybe because he had pro-israelis in the first few rows in front of him.

About halfway through, he does a Q&A and he is much better.

 

[JB1975]

Relating to the above post, this is a lecture/Q&A that John gave to an australian audience a few days ago. He starts off with a lecture that isn't as eloquent as I would like - maybe because he had pro-israelis in the first few rows in front of him.

About halfway through, he does a Q&A and he is much better.

I often think that the most important points anyone can make are the ones which agree with me.

The focus on Netanyahu as the source of Israeli ultra-aggression has bothered me since the start of the campaign. There is a bloody-minded 'logic' to what Israel is doing at the moment, a logic of ethnic cleansing which has been years in the making.

It is nice and yet disturbing that John agrees with me, that replacing Netanyahu --which the Biden administration is pleading for-- would not actually bring a change in military policy.

Tom Switzer is a dill.

 

[sr36]

I often think that the most important points anyone can make are the ones which agree with me.

The focus on Netanyahu as the source of Israeli ultra-aggression has bothered me since the start of the campaign. There is a bloody-minded 'logic' to what Israel is doing at the moment, a logic of ethnic cleansing which has been years in the making.

It is nice and yet disturbing that John agrees with me, that replacing Netanyahu --which the Biden administration is pleading for-- would not actually bring a change in military policy.

Tom Switzer is a dill.

The nature of Israel and the Knesset which gives seats to all minority parties and ensures a coalition government is that there's always going to be some planning an ethnic cleanse. Bibi's taken a mainstream party all in with the far right.

 

[Markfs]

I often think that the most important points anyone can make are the ones which agree with me.

The focus on Netanyahu as the source of Israeli ultra-aggression has bothered me since the start of the campaign. There is a bloody-minded 'logic' to what Israel is doing at the moment, a logic of ethnic cleansing which has been years in the making.

It is nice and yet disturbing that John agrees with me, that replacing Netanyahu --which the Biden administration is pleading for-- would not actually bring a change in military policy.

Tom Switzer is a dill.

switz portrays himself as a balanced arbitrator... i dont discount the difficulty of having anyone with an "alternative" view present at this organisation. The jewish australian lobby rules the upper levels of australian society on this issue. However, there's been a lot of bullying behaviours as Mearsy outlined - both here and in the US - and people like switzer really need to show some backbone.

As for your point about Net, it was one of a series of points that mearsy made which i thought were reasoned and happened to align with my thoughts. The thing that i like about mearsy is that he's simple and straight to the point in most instances, although as I said, he tended to wander a little in his lecture section. He doesn't mince words.

 

[ZEV]

Anyone heard from the president of Iran lately?

 

[Markfs]

The nature of Israel and the Knesset which gives seats to all minority parties and ensures a coalition government is that there's always going to be some planning an ethnic cleanse. Bibi's taken a mainstream party all in with the far right.

I think the mainstream of israelis politics has moved right and it's now not that far from those two or three in the cabinet calling for the culling of animals.

I have a feeling that if you put israeli socieity through the IDF over a period of generations, you're going to end up with more right wing citizens. I also think that the influx of immigants to become settlers is making that worse. Of the 700K in the west bank, 50K are americans.....and as we know, americans like to use guns to solve problems.

 

[sr36]

I think the mainstream of israelis politics has moved right and it's now not that far from those two or three in the cabinet calling for the culling of animals.

I have a feeling that if you put israeli socieity through the IDF over a period of generations, you're going to end up with more right wing citizens. I also think that the influx of immigants to become settlers is making that worse. Of the 700K in the west bank, 50K are americans.....and as we know, americans like to use guns to solve problems.

They had an influx of a close to a million Russian Jews who have shifted everything right.

 

[JB1975]

Gaza is the main horror show, but the criminality in the West Bank has also become more savage.

 

[Maggie5]

Israel violence towards the Palestinian people is not new.

Great article in the NYT.

Such violence over the decades in places like Khirbet Zanuta is well documented. But protecting the people who carry out that violence is the dark secret of Israeli justice. The long arc of harassment, assault and murder of Palestinians by Jewish settlers is twinned with a shadow history, one of silence, avoidance and abetment by Israeli officials. For many of those officials, it is Palestinian terrorism that most threatens Israel. But in interviews with more than 100 people — current and former officers of the Israeli military, the National Israeli Police and the Shin Bet domestic security service; high-ranking Israeli political officials, including four former prime ministers; Palestinian leaders and activists; Israeli human rights lawyers; American officials charged with supporting the Israeli-Palestinian partnership — we found a different and perhaps even more destabilizing threat. A long history of crime without punishment, many of those officials now say, threatens not only Palestinians living in the occupied territories but also the State of Israel itself.

The Unpunished: How Extremists Took Over Israel

After 50 years of failure to stop violence and terrorism against Palestinians by Jewish ultranationalists, lawlessness has become the law.

www.nytimes.com

 

[NMBB]

Gaza is the main horror show, but the criminality in the West Bank has also become more savage.

Palestinian homes bulldozed at will - nil repercussions

 

[Markfs]

They had an influx of a close to a million Russian Jews who have shifted everything right.

Israel violence towards the Palestinian people is not new.

Great article in the NYT.

Such violence over the decades in places like Khirbet Zanuta is well documented. But protecting the people who carry out that violence is the dark secret of Israeli justice. The long arc of harassment, assault and murder of Palestinians by Jewish settlers is twinned with a shadow history, one of silence, avoidance and abetment by Israeli officials. For many of those officials, it is Palestinian terrorism that most threatens Israel. But in interviews with more than 100 people — current and former officers of the Israeli military, the National Israeli Police and the Shin Bet domestic security service; high-ranking Israeli political officials, including four former prime ministers; Palestinian leaders and activists; Israeli human rights lawyers; American officials charged with supporting the Israeli-Palestinian partnership — we found a different and perhaps even more destabilizing threat. A long history of crime without punishment, many of those officials now say, threatens not only Palestinians living in the occupied territories but also the State of Israel itself.

The Unpunished: How Extremists Took Over Israel

After 50 years of failure to stop violence and terrorism against Palestinians by Jewish ultranationalists, lawlessness has become the law.

www.nytimes.com

i know the official definition of terrorism refers to one-off instances of murder etc, but the behaviour towards these longterm palestinians communities seems to be based on longterm terorising of people....on a day to day basis over a period of years.

i think the lack of justice corrupting israel is something jewish americans should think about

 

[Markfs]

antony blinking has evidently drawn too many red lines in the last 6 months and another washington "adviser' has been sent after the latest murders. Why don't they send the people who are making the actual decisions? They might get more notice from the israelis. This has developed into a sick monty python skit.

The real question is what percentage of democrat voters are actually going to change their vote and who can they select that will allow justice for the palestinians. Are there really more democrat voters likely to leave the nest, if biden just says that he is going to back israel in all circumstances....well he has effectively said that, i suppose. Does it really challenge the american dream if the president says that israelis matter more than palestinians? All these things are unsaid, but they're obvious. Are people so stupid that they are still believing the words? I suppose so, or the new guy wouldnt be taking his trip to jerusalem to draw the next red line...

It reminds me of hawthorn holding to a last quarter lead waiting for the final siren.

 

[JB1975]

I've become one of those people who just posts other people's stuff. So be it.

This is a 7min long video showing the names of the children killed in Gaza. The first 35 secs lists those under 1yo.

Doesn't include the horribly maimed, orphaned, unidentified, unfound etc.

A barbarous war on children.

 

[ZEV]

I've become one of those people who just posts other people's stuff. So be it.

This is a 7min long video showing the names of the children killed in Gaza. The first 35 secs lists those under 1yo.

Doesn't include the horribly maimed, orphaned, unidentified, unfound etc.

A barbarous war on children.

Lets post some of her stories she likes to make up;

 

[manicpie]

Anyone heard from the president of Iran lately?

He's no longer with us. I think he died in a helicopter crash

 

[JB1975]

Lets post some of her stories she likes to make up;

If only the murder of 15,000 children was also the work of imagination.

 

[ZEV]

If only the murder of 15,000 children was also the work of imagination.

Pretty sure it is.

Can't find 40 Israeli's they pinched but have a fully curated list of 15,000 names....

I didn't pick you as a true believer JB

 

[ZEV]

He's no longer with us. I think he died in a helicopter crash

How unfortunate.

They really need those helicopters.

 

[leon123]

Pretty sure it is.

Can't find 40 Israeli's they pinched but have a fully curated list of 15,000 names....

I didn't pick you as a true believer JB

So Zav, Im a simple man, so are you saying this lady has a) made up 15,000 children have been killed (Gaza by IDF) and b) the list is a work of fiction?

 

[ZEV]

So Zav, Im a simple man, so are you saying this lady has a) made up 15,000 children have been killed (Gaza by IDF) and b) the list is a work of fiction?

a) I don't know who made up the list
b) Yes

 

[Markfs]

Lets post some of her stories she likes to make up;

I was interested in this story and searched the net about it. I did see a few posts on one site that put forward the view that the man was shot by hamas after talking to the IDF. Similar posts proposed that he was worth the 4 bullets. On the other side, a number of sites referred to the incident and stated the name of the man, Bashir Hajji, and his grand daughter. It was also referred to in reports of IDF executing palestinians in the first month of the war.

I'm usually taken in very easily by babes, especially those israeli ones in military uniforms, but on the balance of probablilities there's a good likelihood that the old guy was shot. It certainly fits in with the wacko humour of IDF soldiers who like to dress up in palestinian women's clothing and then post videos.

 

[ZEV]

Yeah Yossi doing his national service is really interested in shooting old men in the back…

 

[leon123]

a) I don't know who made up the list
b) Yes

No no no sorry Zav I wasnt clear was I.

So the estimate of approximately 15,000 children dead was made up? Its not that in that ball park?

 

[Markfs]

No no no sorry Zav I wasnt clear was I.

So the estimate of approximately 15,000 children dead was made up? Its not that in that ball park?

I think he needs to know the dates....

Here we have 75 children being murdered in 2021. There's a lot of different dates. It's hard to keep up with the child murders.

A list of children killed in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (10 May- 21st May 2021) - AOAV

Since the 10 May, at least 75 children have been reported killed in the Gaza strip and in Israel. Their deaths were mostly by explosive weapons. 73 of these children were killed in Gaza. 2 were killed in Israel.

aoav.org.uk

 

[Black_White]

Lets post some of her stories she likes to make up;

I love the internet and the way you can say something without ever, ever, having to prove it.
Old Joh would love this age. He would be feeding the chooks daily.