All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Black_White]

Pretty sure it is.

Can't find 40 Israeli's they pinched but have a fully curated list of 15,000 names....

I didn't pick you as a true believer JB

AI makes it easy to create lists. From thin air even.

 

[Black_White]

He's no longer with us. I think he died in a helicopter crash

How ironic that it was an American helicopter.
I do like how after the initial reports the Iranian media asked all people to pray for this murderer. And even stop broadcasts to show the people praying for his safe return.
Guess what people? There ain’t no god and if there were he/she/it obviously didn’t lift a finger/claw to help your man.
No great loss to society this ome.

 

[IlovethePies]

Just a thought...who benefits from the death of the President of Iran?
No doubt, certain poliitical factions within Iran itself.
But so also do Israel and the US.
Both governments, acting in alliance, view Iran as their ultimate target.
There might well be more to this than fog and aging helicopters.

 

[IlovethePies]

How ironic that it was an American helicopter.
I do like how after the initial reports the Iranian media asked all people to pray for this murderer. And even stop broadcasts to show the people praying for his safe return.
Guess what people? There ain’t no god and if there were he/she/it obviously didn’t lift a finger/claw to help your man.
No great loss to society this ome.

True. But that is not the main point. The main point is: who benefits from his death?

 

[manicpie]

How ironic that it was an American helicopter.
I do like how after the initial reports the Iranian media asked all people to pray for this murderer. And even stop broadcasts to show the people praying for his safe return.
Guess what people? There ain’t no god and if there were he/she/it obviously didn’t lift a finger/claw to help your man.
No great loss to society this ome.

I'm well aware of what this barbaric psychopath did and was doing. The world is a better place without him

 

[Black_White]

True. But that is not the main point. The main point is: who benefits from his death?

No one.
Because it appears his replacement is even nuttier.

 

[IlovethePies]

No one.
Because it appears his replacement is even nuttier.

You are missing the point.
The death of one of the highest government figures in Iran creates political turmoil and instability. According to the Iranian constitution, there must now be an election within 6 months to appoint a new, permanent president. The US and Israel are both seeking the opportunity to create a provocation against Iran. The political confusion and potential chaos that the death of Raisi might create plays into the hands of US and Israel.
Yes, the replacement of Raisi might be even more insane.
But the issue is that the government of Israel and of the US are at an even higher level of criminal insanity.

 

[sr36]

Just a thought...who benefits from the death of the President of Iran?
No doubt, certain poliitical factions within Iran itself.
But so also do Israel and the US.
Both governments, acting in alliance, view Iran as their ultimate target.
There might well be more to this than fog and aging helicopters.

How do the US benefit from his death?

 

[ZEV]

But the issue is that the government of Israel and of the US are at an even higher level of criminal insanity.

I think sometimes it's appropriate to take a deep breath and think about what we are posting.

 

[JB1975]

Pretty sure it is.

Can't find 40 Israeli's they pinched but have a fully curated list of 15,000 names....

I didn't pick you as a true believer JB

You'd be surprised how gullible I am, Zev. I even believed those awesome CG animations from Israeli intelligence which showed us the Hamas lair sitting beneath the hospital.

The only thing it lack was a pool full of hungry crocodiles or sharks.

Come to think of it, there hasn't been much discussion at all about those sophisticated and elaborate tunnels under Gaza.

Would you believe that I'm so gullible as to believe that Israel was doing everything it could to ensure the smooth flow of humanitarian aid?

----------------------------------------------------

Right, the numbers game. So how many thousands of children do you think Israel have killed since last October? Feel free/obligated to mention what your figure is based on.

Some of us do feel slightly uncomfortable accepting figures produced under the authority of Hamas, but there's a few reasons to accept that the stated toll is near to the truth:

• The indiscriminate nature of Israel's bombing campaign and the scale of destruction to all buildings (including residential zones) make it impossible to avoid a high death toll of innocents. Given the disproportionate number of young people in Gaza, at least half of all deaths are bound to be under 18yo.
• The volunteers from overseas organisations are not in charge of body counts, but humanitarian aid workers and medical volunteers have provided a massive amount of anecdotal evidence about the scale and nature of the campaign. Along with the daily visuals of small bodies lining hospital floors or being pulled from rubble, these testimonies strike me as more credible than anything else.
• I had a third point but it eludes me at the moment.

 

[JB1975]

I love the internet and the way you can say something without ever, ever, having to prove it.
Old Joh would love this age. He would be feeding the chooks daily.

I reckon you must have signed the petition floating around in the Herald Sun, to ban social media among the vulnerable youth.

Old Joh wouldn't have loved this age, for much the same reason that Israel isn't really enjoying it: it's harder for governments to control the narrative.

 

[JB1975]

We can hope that all those involved face justice, including Hamas.

We can also hope that more members of Israel's death machine are forced to answer for their actions.

ICC chief prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Israeli PM and Hamas leaders

The International Criminal Court chief prosecutor says he believes Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defence Minister Yoav Gallant and three Hamas leaders are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Gaza Strip and Israel.

www.abc.net.au

 

[manicpie]

I reckon you must have signed the petition floating around in the Herald Sun, to ban social media among the vulnerable youth.

Old Joh wouldn't have loved this age, for much the same reason that Israel isn't really enjoying it: it's harder for governments to control the narrative.

Just on that. How would they be able to stop kids under 16 from accessing social media. I reckon there would be heaps of ways for them to get around it. I thought that at 16 , a person is classed as an adult, more or less. This one is a bit mind boggling .

 

[JB1975]

Just on that. How would they be able to stop kids under 16 from accessing social media. I reckon there would be heaps of ways for them to get around it. I thought that at 16 , a person is classed as an adult, more or less. This one is a bit mind boggling .

Young people will need to be re-educated. It wasn't so long ago that young and old alike could accept that the Herald Sun contained all they needed to know about the world.

Life was simpler. Rupert Murdoch loved it, and we were all much happier.

The US is banning TikTok. Cynics argue that it's a way to control the flow and nature of information, but good Americans know that it's a liberation from misery.

 

[manicpie]

Young people will need to be re-educated. It wasn't so long ago that young and old alike could accept that the Herald Sun contained all they needed to know about the world.

Life was simpler. Rupert Murdoch loved it, and we were all much happier.

The US is banning TikTok. Cynics argue that it's a way to control the flow and nature of information, but good Americans know that it's a liberation from misery.

As I keep saying, the world has gone mad. Can they even ban Tik Tok. I think I need to move to Nimbin

 

[ZEV]

You'd be surprised how gullible I am, Zev. I even believed those awesome CG animations from Israeli intelligence which showed us the Hamas lair sitting beneath the hospital.

The only thing it lack was a pool full of hungry crocodiles or sharks.

Come to think of it, there hasn't been much discussion at all about those sophisticated and elaborate tunnels under Gaza.

Would you believe that I'm so gullible as to believe that Israel was doing everything it could to ensure the smooth flow of humanitarian aid?

----------------------------------------------------

Right, the numbers game. So how many thousands of children do you think Israel have killed since last October? Feel free/obligated to mention what your figure is based on.

Some of us do feel slightly uncomfortable accepting figures produced under the authority of Hamas, but there's a few reasons to accept that the stated toll is near to the truth:

• The indiscriminate nature of Israel's bombing campaign and the scale of destruction to all buildings (including residential zones) make it impossible to avoid a high death toll of innocents. Given the disproportionate number of young people in Gaza, at least half of all deaths are bound to be under 18yo.
• The volunteers from overseas organisations are not in charge of body counts, but humanitarian aid workers and medical volunteers have provided a massive amount of anecdotal evidence about the scale and nature of the campaign. Along with the daily visuals of small bodies lining hospital floors or being pulled from rubble, these testimonies strike me as more credible than anything else.
• I had a third point but it eludes me at the moment.

There has been plenty of discussion about the tunnels. Remember Israel was committing war crimes by flooding them with sea water. Remember all the controlled demolitions everyone was saying were war crimes.

Don't know how many. Don't know how many children Hamas are using as militants either. You know they do that right.
You know Israel is actively trying not to hurt civilians.

You call it indiscriminate but we know that's not true and not how it works. If it were indiscriminate multiply the inflated Hamas figure by 50.

The pictures and accounts are horrifying. They give no indication of the figure though. You are forming an emotional response.

The third point you may have forgotten is that Hamas wants children to die so people like you align with their cause. These sick monsters will drag a little girl kicking and screaming into a rigged house in front of IDF to lure them in and when they dont will shoot her anyway. These numbers come from that type of person and you accept it.

 

[leon123]

There has been plenty of discussion about the tunnels. Remember Israel was committing war crimes by flooding them with sea water. Remember all the controlled demolitions everyone was saying were war crimes.

Don't know how many. Don't know how many children Hamas are using as militants either. You know they do that right.
You know Israel is actively trying not to hurt civilians.

You call it indiscriminate but we know that's not true and not how it works. If it were indiscriminate multiply the inflated Hamas figure by 50.

The pictures and accounts are horrifying. They give no indication of the figure though. You are forming an emotional response.

The third point you may have forgotten is that Hamas wants children to die so people like you align with their cause. These sick monsters will drag a little girl kicking and screaming into a rigged house in front of IDF to lure them in and when they dont will shoot her anyway. These numbers come from that type of person and you accept it.

Ned, i meant zav sorry, i get confused. I hope you are getting paid for your marketing efforts. You really arent on this forum for football purposes are we

 

[JB1975]

Don't know how many. Don't know how many children Hamas are using as militants either. You know they do that right.
You know Israel is actively trying not to hurt civilians.

You call it indiscriminate but we know that's not true and not how it works. If it were indiscriminate multiply the inflated Hamas figure by 50.

I believe that Israel is actively trying to harm Gazans. I couldn't avoid that conclusion if I tried.

The bombing campaign made that pretty clear to me. The efforts to starve a suffering population underscore the savagery.

 

[JB1975]

Ned, i meant zav sorry, i get confused. I hope you are getting paid for your marketing efforts. You really arent on this forum for football purposes are we

It was footy which first brought me to BF.

I was getting excited about the forthcoming 2015 but no one in my immediate circle was interested in the game at all. They just wanted to talk politics...

 

[ZEV]

I believe that Israel is actively trying to harm Gazans. I couldn't avoid that conclusion if I tried.

The bombing campaign made that pretty clear to me. The efforts to starve a suffering population underscore the savagery.

Yeah, but it's just the ones that are trying to kill us. Are we allowed to do that?

Have a look at how well fed Hamas operatives seem to be. Plenty of aid for sale at inflated prices at the markets.

https://cdn.i24news.tv/uploads/51/e2/6c/a4/1a/10/5c/62/a0/ed/d4/15/18/d8/de/5e/51e26ca41a105c62a0edd41518d8de5e.png?width=1000&type=webp

 

[Markfs]

the drone must have run outta bullets...

 

[ZEV]

Ned, i meant zav sorry, i get confused. I hope you are getting paid for your marketing efforts. You really arent on this forum for football purposes are we

I'm sure you are trying to illicit a response by making fun of my name. Good job. Classy.

 

[IlovethePies]

I think sometimes it's appropriate to take a deep breath and think about what we are posting.

I just did. And I stand by what i posted.
Absolutely.
The US government is funding Israel to carry out genocide.
I don't see the Iranian government carrying out genocide anywhere.

 

[Markfs]

interesting development of the digital guillotine....which follows on from the BDS iniatives in recent years. I like the strategy...dont bother arguing with these people, just stop buying stuff off of them.

i must publicly admit that I did eat an israel orange during covid....i was suitably punished. It tasted terrible.

 

[Markfs]

I just did. And I stand by what i posted.
Absolutely.
The US government is funding Israel to carry out genocide.
I don't see the Iranian government carrying out genocide anywhere.

They're doing more than just funding....

An estimated 23,380 American citizens currently serve in Israeli ranks, according to the Israel Defense Forces.22 Feb 2024

The American citizens fighting and dying for Israel in the Gaza war​

washingtonpost.com
https://www.washingtonpost.com › world › 2024/02/22