All time National XI

[Guardian Hawk]

Thought it might be interesting to debate who we would select to an all time 11 of each of the Test playing nations and to see how they compare...

My go at an Australian XI:

1. M. Hayden
2. V. Trumper
3. D. Bradman
4. R. Ponting
5. S. Smith
6. K. Miller
7. A. Gilchrist (wk)
8. S. Warne
9. A. Davidson
10. D. Lillee
11. G. McGrath

Bolded are my certainties. The toughest positions to pick were number 6 and number 9. Miller was definitely our best ever all rounder so wasnt with him but forces the non-selection of some all time middle order batsmen (G. Chappell, A. Border, S. Waugh, etc.). Feel Miller offers the best balance for the side as both a quality batsman and a quality bowler. No 9 was even harder to pick. O'Reilly the world's greatest leggy until Warne came along, Cummins the current champ but went with a left arm quick for balance/variety - one with an incredible average of just 20.5 and an economy under 2. Davidson was also handy with the bat and an excellent fielder.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Reflecting on the strength of those who missed out, this is what my all-time Australia A side would look like:

1. B. Ponsford
2. A. Morris
3. A. Border
4. G. Chappell
5. S. Waugh
6. M. Hussey (or N. Harvey/M. Clarke/S. McCabe??)
7. R. Marsh
8. R. Benaud
9. P. Cummins
10. R. Lindwall
11. B. O'Reilly

That side would beat lots of other all-time national sides IMO.

Lots of unluckies, especially with the bowlers.

What changes (to either side) would you make?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

All time Indian XI:

1. S. Gavaskar
2. V. Sehwag
3. R. Dravid
4. S. Tendulkar
5. V. Kohli
6. VVS. Laxman
7. MS Dhoni?
8. K. Dev
9. R. Ashwin
10 A. Kumble
11. J. Bumrah

Batting still super strong but don't think the bowling is not quite at the same level. Kohli and Dhoni's Test records are not that strong compared to the Australian side but the middle order options fall away quickly after those named.

 

[PhatBoy]

All time Indian XI:

1. S. Gavaskar
2. V. Sehwag
3. R. Dravid
4. S. Tendulkar
5. V. Kohli
6. VVS. Laxman
7. MS Dhoni?
8. K. Dev
9. R. Ashwin
10 A. Kumble
11. J. Bumrah

Batting still super strong but don't think the bowling is not quite at the same level. Kohli and Dhoni's Test records are not that strong compared to the Australian side but the middle order options fall away quickly after those named.

Neither of them are especially good keepers so Rishabh Pant would get in over Dhoni already. Dhoni was hopeless outside of low slow tracks.

Pant averages higher in general (42 to 38), averages higher away from home (40 to 32), has scored 4 hundreds in England, one each in SA and Australia. In the absence of anyone who’s keeping was so stunningly good that it presents a compelling case, I think Pant goes past Dhoni easily

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Simpson
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
G Chappell
Ponting
Gilchrist
Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

If you disagree you’re wrong, this is the internet!

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Neither of them are especially good keepers so Rishabh Pant would get in over Dhoni already. Dhoni was hopeless outside of low slow tracks.

Pant averages higher in general (42 to 38), averages higher away from home (40 to 32), has scored 4 hundreds in England, one each in SA and Australia. In the absence of anyone who’s keeping was so stunningly good that it presents a compelling case, I think Pant goes past Dhoni easily

Yep, good call. You are probably right. No real standout options to be honest. I put the question mark cos I really wasn't sure. Dhoni probably just got the initial nod cos he played the 90 Test matches, is top 5 for dismissals and also captained.

I think Pant is probably the better player though (equal keeping, better bat) and would have gotten in automatically had he been more in the latter part of his career rather than right in the middle (where it could all still fall apart for him).

Agree that neither are amazing as keepers at Test level, which is interesting cos Dhoni has a big reputation in white ball cricket for his keeping (and batting/finishing).

What would your West Indian eleven look like?

 

[PhatBoy]

Yep, good call. You are probably right. No real standout options to be honest. I put the question mark cos I really wasn't sure. Dhoni probably just got the initial nod cos he played the 90 Test matches, is top 5 for dismissals and also captained.

I think Pant is probably the better player though (equal keeping, better bat) and would have gotten in automatically had he been more in the latter part of his career rather than right in the middle (where it could all still fall apart for him).

Agree that neither are amazing as keepers at Test level, which is interesting cos Dhoni has a big reputation in white ball cricket for his keeping (and batting/finishing).

What would your West Indian eleven look like?

In answer to your last question…. Very old haha

I’ll have a think about it. It changes a lot in my head

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Simpson
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
G Chappell
Ponting
Gilchrist
Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

If you disagree you’re wrong, this is the internet!

Great side. Simpson is one that didn't even make my Australia A side (forgot him to be honest) but I just did some digging into his stats and whilst he played every position from 1-8, he played 70 innings (41 matches) as an opener and averaged 55.5 in that position!!

Very hard to argue with on that basis (especially given I had Trumper who has a significant reputation from an era none of us saw and whose stats are not that impressive on the surface).

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Great side. Simpson is one that didn't even make my Australia A side (forgot him to be honest) but I just did some digging into his stats and whilst he played every position from 1-8, he played 70 innings (41 matches) as an opener and averaged 55.5 in that position!!

Very hard to argue with on that basis (especially given I had Trumper who has a significant reputation from an era none of us saw and whose stats are not that impressive on the surface).

Yep, his record as an opener is amazing. As is Ponsford's. Simpson edges him on average and has longevity and weight of runs.

Those two would be a fine opening pair... I just had to include Hayden for sheer weight of runs... but Ponsford is incredibly stiff.

 

[Sphynx]

With Davidson, Miller and Benaud in your talent pool, an argument could be made in Lyon playing in certain sides.

He's definitely not in the best 5 Aus bowlers ever, but you aren't not taking a finger spinner in certain conditions now with what we know of subcontinent bowling and the importance of getting it through the air quickly and he's turning it the opposite way to left handers to Warne.

Warne, Grimmet, Benau and O'Reilly were all right arm leggies. You want the option to the left handers.

My Australia subcontinent XI

Hayden
Simpson
Smith
N.Harvey
Border
Clarke
Gilchrist
Benaud (c)
Davidson
Lyon
McGrath

Making the controversial decision of dropping Warne for this team.

Lyon is the highest wicket taker in India in history for a travelling Bowler and Benaud averages 18 with the ball in India.

2 x right hand offies (Lyon, Clarke), 1 x right hand leg spinner (Benaud), 1 x left hand off spinner (Border).

Left and Right handed fast bowling options.