Angus "Goose" Graham

[coke_zero]

Again, on 'Gus', tonight will tell plenty for those talking him up as our next big thing. That's Hille and Ryder out there, not VFL calibre Skipper and Renouf!!!

Gus doesnt have to dominate them, all we want to see from him is further improvment. a few big grabs and the odd goal would be all we are asking from him right now, and then later in the season we would like to see even more improvment. Its going to be very slow with Gus.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Another good game from Gus, he really held his own against two good opponents.

 

[ARES]

Another good game from Gus, he really held his own against two good opponents.

That he did. Lone hand out there...as tall.

Vickery needs mass and some more time. But in the mean time needs to play smarter.ie use pace or at leastmake space 2-3 yards in front is all thats needed...

Hille should have been outed for 1 week, plays a blinder
Jackson soft suspension, needed his toughness and run...

Just dont seem to buy a trick, RFC.....

 

[Bazzar]

Another good solid game by the Goose tonight Funny how hardly anyone liked him 3 weeks a go. Same now with Browne, so I hope when he gets his chance he also steps up just like Gus

 

[one eyedtiger]

Yep another solid game. Loved the pack mark he took in the 4th? with us coming out of our defensive 50. Our bomb it long tactic from kick-ins might work with him there. Crashed packs and did all the things a big man should. Well done Gus.

 

[TigerTime88]

He is by far our number 1 ruck.

When he was in there we were competitive, Vickery at this point in time is usless playing AFL. Polak is better suited to rucking.

Good on Gus...if he can start finding the pill more and more he will be our number 1 for a while.

 

[ize_]

I know his flaws stand out and no one is sold on him yet, but can anyone actually remember his last bad game at AFL level? I can't. He played decently all last season and his first two this year have been good.

 

[TigerTime88]

Rnd 22 last year against the Eagles...he was woeful.

However last game and everyone was woeful, but he got pantes in the ruck but Dean Cox mind you, but if you are starting 22 that is no excuse.

Either way he is competive at least now and can go forward and take a grab.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Angus Graham being tagged as our best ruckman shows how pathetic our ruck stocks are.

The major problem is that this situation will not have changed within 12 months.

Even if Richmond trades for a Ruckman we will be paying over the odds for a serviceable player at best.

 

[Goldust]

I TOO recall his big mark in the fourth as it was a rare highlight from his game.
In comparison to Hille and Ryder his game was poor.
The reason people are saying good things is that because in comparison to our own Vickery his game looked good!
Ruck stocks are getting more worrying by the week.

 

[ToroHombre]

I couldn't help thinking this last night - I could clip my toenails in the time it takes for Angus Graham's handpasses to reach their destination.

He's at least competitive though, unlike Vickery.

 

[Jisha]

I am glad Gus has been given a couple of games in a row, has been better than Simmonds. He is young enough to deserve the opportunity to build a career

 

[remind]

He is by far our number 1 ruck.

When he was in there we were competitive, Vickery at this point in time is usless playing AFL. Polak is better suited to rucking.

Good on Gus...if he can start finding the pill more and more he will be our number 1 for a while.

hear hear!!

They are doing Vickey no favours, give him a spell in VFL, I know Polak dropped marks aganist Hawks, but you need this other big tall body
Imagine how many Jack might of kicked if Essendon Defence had another Big body fwd to worry about. Or play all 3 would of been my option.

 

[coke_zero]

I TOO recall his big mark in the fourth as it was a rare highlight from his game.
In comparison to Hille and Ryder his game was poor.
The reason people are saying good things is that because in comparison to our own Vickery his game looked good!
Ruck stocks are getting more worrying by the week.

he may not have done alot around the ground. But he did well when he was in the ruck, which is why he is in the team.

 

[Bojangles17]

astute judges would have noticed whenever he was competing in the centre ruck we were winning our share of clearances and negating those easy as you like takeaways...If Gus can play out the season in this form he will easily earn himself a 1 yr contract.

Vickery is nowhere near up to it and needs to be at Coburg indefinately, we are smashed every time he contests, offering us next to nothing...Browne MUST be included in the side to show his wares

 

[True Thylacine]

astute judges would have noticed whenever he was competing in the centre ruck we were winning our share of clearances and negating those easy as you like takeaways...If Gus can play out the season in this form he will easily earn himself a 1 yr contract.

Vickery is nowhere near up to it and needs to be at Coburg indefinately, we are smashed every time he contests, offering us next to nothing...Browne MUST be included in the side to show his wares

Absolutely Bo! After witnessing Vickery last night live I am slowly migrating to tugga's camp. Im not sure the kid has got it. I know they take time but watching him trudging around after Hille and Ryder was as painful as buggery. Surely after 2 pre seasons you would expect his tank to be better than that. Hille made him look very silly at times let alone 1 kick and 5 handballs

 

[Madison]

You can't judge Vickery at the moment. Most ruckman wouldn't be playing AFL in their second year. They would be allowed to build up the tank and size required for AFL, in the VFL. They wouldn't be thrown to the dogs like Vickery has.

He was a very good ruckman at junior level when around similar sized bodies. When he builds up his size to AFL level he will be very good.

 

[CoggaRules]

Cogga, think I have stated on here - or perhaps on another thread - that I thought it was 'Gus'' best game, period!!! Albeit coming off a low base, there was substantial improvement - at least last week. Better indication will come tomorrow. The Hawks' rucks woes are well documented - probably more so then the Tigers' overall woes.
Think I also said that I thought he did his best work down forward as opposed to the ruck. Gus actually looked menacing at times and I'd be sticking him there alongside Jack who is crying out for some relief at the risk of being run into the ground.
The grabs he pulled down in the forward line were not unnoticed ... hope he can take confidence from that and dod it around the ground.
Won't hold out hope, but at least it's a start - and as I say, the old Graham returns this week than it's pointless.
Any tall kid - let alone a ruckman - could smash the likes the Hawks are tossing up each week.
Skipper

Let me guess goldie, you want to see it again next week now. Lets just say that this dude is one of those that over a pre-season has improved at warp speed. He is even doing things at ground level, ontop of mostly dominating the ruck contests when he is in there and the BIG bonus is that when he offers himself as a long marking option, he is fast becoming AN OPTION that you can go to.

 

[Goldust]

SO the fact Hille was judged best on ground and Ryder carved us up was all Vickery's fault?????????????
Naive!!!!

 

[santa claws]

i liked this from a poster over at oer.

not much to get excited about so we get excited over mediocrity. sort of sums the graham situation up nicely.

 

[coke_zero]

SO the fact Hille was judged best on ground and Ryder carved us up was all Vickery's fault?????????????
Naive!!!!

Vickery got caught out alot, Graham not so much. But both need to be accountable of the ruckmen on the other team. When we improve and become a top 8 team then our ruckmen can be attacking and make the other ruckmen look stupid.

 

[santa claws]

I know his flaws stand out and no one is sold on him yet, but can anyone actually remember his last bad game at AFL level? I can't. He played decently all last season and his first two this year have been good.

can anyone actually remember his last good game.i would go so far as to say hes yet to play a good game at afl level. surely we are not so accepting of mediocrity to accept his last couple as good . or we are so naieve to think some decent signs in development are representative of good games.
bloody hell what is it with our supporters that its impossible for them to go thru the simple exercise of looking at overall performance and a players strengths and weaknesses or continually fail to compare our players against their peers at other clubs

going into a game against essendon we all know one area we are going to be behind the 8 ball is in the ruck. why? because graham for starters is a mile behind not just the two they went with but a couple of others as well.you can say the same thing for most sides.
there are 15 other teams . we have to be better in each area of the ground but here we are defending a bloke deep down we all know is well behind most and so we start behind the 8 ball most games. if we want to climb the ladder we actually have to be BETTER than other teams in all areas or at least be competetive.
when is this shit going to stop .wake up people mediocrity is mediocrity why defend it. oh thats right it richmond mediocrity and we have a history of thriving on it.

 

[Rayzorwire]

You're really stretching denial on this issue santa.

I rate the ruckmen in the comp on three tiers (in order when fully fit):

Elite: Cox, Sandilands, Hille, Ottens

Budding Elite: Naitanui, Ryder, Leunberger, Clarke (big question mark here but we'll leave him there for the time being).

Average tryers: The rest.

While we may quibble over the order somewhat and you may insist on promoting past-it players like King, Gardiner etc. into the lower ranks of "elite," I doubt we'd rank them THAT much differently - i.e. Graham went head to head with two of the comp's top-10 ruckmen - top-6 IMO.

Your main argument for last week was a grudging concession that Graham was OK against Hawthorn, but that he would get smashed by Hille and Ryder - or any half decent ruckman.

He had 17 hitouts for the night, Hille had 23, Ryder had 19 and I'd be extremely surprised if either had more hitouts to advantage when directly opposed to Graham than he got against them...the majority of Hille and Ryder's hitouts to advantage were against the hapless Vickery - they couldn't dominate Graham.

So that leaves the major points of difference between Hille, Ryder and Graham's games as a) Ryder and Hille being able to smash Vickery in the ruck and in general play (a luxury Graham didn't have to boost perceptions of his performance), b) they had way above their average contributions deep in the forwardline in a winning side (again, a luxury Graham didn't have to boost perceptions of his performance).

Because of Graham's numerous hitouts to advantage and his efficient disposal all night, he was rated very close to Ryder's performance by CD and not that far behind Hille, DESPITE not having Vickery to smash, and DESPITE not having the opportunity to go forward and kick easy goals in a winning side.

There's nothing mediocre about that, certainly not from a bloke playing his 20th game, up against Ryder with 81 games and Hille with 158.

Currently, the only two ruckmen rated higher by average over Graham's average from two games this year, are Cox and Sandilands (in fact without checking, he may even be ahead of Cox's average). He's not getting massive hitout numbers to achieve his ratings like the two above him, he's getting a high number of hitouts to advantage and getting constructive possessions with high efficiency.

And while people will no doubt whinge that ratings are irrelevant, bar describing every contest in great detail, it's the only tool available to fill in the huge gap between what actually happened in the game, and the small sample of the game that most people can actually remember happening.

Graham's performances have been extremely promising from every perspective and IMO, anyone denying so has serious problems rating players fairly.

 

[Bojangles17]

great summary rayz, about as much sense as you've ever made...too often our players are benchmarked against some mystical nirvana figure when in reality they aren't that far off it ...I still muse over a comment some knob made on another forum after 4 games from Doc, where he said, Im worried he's missing a few targets

 

[_RT_]

Early in the year I was concerned with Graham, he was getting outplayed at Coburg by rookie rucks and was having next to no impact around the ground. In his 2 games this year he has performed like a totally different player. Perhaps he is one of those players who can't perform at a lower level and needs the challenge of playing against the best to bring the best out of himself.

Hopefully he can continue to deliver over the rest of the year, for if he can it will go someway to solving one of the issue we have in regards finding a decent ruckman to feed our midfield.