Another VFA/VFL club bites the dust.

[SgtSchulz]

http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-12-19/casey-demons-becomes-official

What the AFL has done to the historical clubs of our great game is a disgrace.

To think where we were in the mid 1970's with the Championship of Australia and the stillborn NFL night series...

RIP Casey Football Club

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No one made Casey agree to any arrangement.
They chose to.

 

[Nostradumbass]

The AFL killed the VFA a long time ago.

 

[Colonial]

Geez. People will blame the AFL for anything.

Next itll be their fault Trump is president.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[SgtSchulz]

No one made Casey agree to any arrangement.
They chose to.

Im sure they chose to accept the financial vice for VFL clubs that was the AFL's creation.

 

[Catsnlakers]

No one made Casey agree to any arrangement.
They chose to.

Very true.... Hard to be too sympathetic.

 

[master bate]

The Springvale Scorpions were always in trouble when they moved to Casey.

The VFA has long been dying. If people cared so much for the less powerful clubs (ie. not Willy or Port) they could've/should've assumed control of them and stepped down from the VFL and in to local footy where it's far easier (if still difficult) to continue a club as an actual club.

The AFL via AFL Victoria has actively done little to help Frankston. That is a shame as a club is removed from the competition. Casey changing their nickname isn't the same.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Casey had more chance of survival by rebranding rather than going the way of Bendigo and Frankston. Won't be long before VFL is simply the afl reserves sides plus a handful of stand along clubs with a strong enough following.

 

[Rickee]

If Casey had not agreed to this, no doubt they would have become like Frankston - kicked out over "debts" amounting to a little over a million dollars, which you could probably find in the couch cushions in one of the corporate offices at Etihad.
Springvale may not have been in the VFA all that long compared to other clubs (1982) and moved around a bit, but the loss of the unique nickname and jumper to be a clone of their AFL sugar daddy (as with Box Hill, Preston and soon to be Sandringham) is another step closer to the old VFA (oldest football competition in Australia) becoming the AFL Reserves. North Ballarat barely survived last year, but mark my words they will be targeted, along with Port, Willi and Coburg.

Fact is, if the AFL clubs can run a Womens comp and netball clubs, they could support a stand alone reserves, but they'd rather take over and sanitise a competition that deserved to remain at least part way independent in it's own right.

 

[HairyO]

Casey had more chance of survival by rebranding rather than going the way of Bendigo and Frankston. Won't be long before VFL is simply the afl reserves sides plus a handful of stand along clubs with a strong enough following.

Hasnt it been this way since the AFL got rid of reserve teams?

 

[coniglio_number1]

Hasnt it been this way since the AFL got rid of reserve teams?

Not to this extent. The rebrandings and introduction of club funded reserves sides is pushing out the VFL clubs. May as well formalise it soon rather than giving VFL clubs a slow death. Would love to see tassie and Fitzroy in the reserves comp

 

[telsor]

http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-12-19/casey-demons-becomes-official

What the AFL has done to the historical clubs of our great game is a disgrace.

There is no 'state league' in Vic, merely AFL reserves in various guises and a couple of others making up the numbers.

To think where we were in the mid 1970's with the Championship of Australia and the stillborn NFL night series...

All of which were played in SA, back in the era when travel was rare and thus more difficult, thus making the 'home' SA teams seem tougher than they were, which is why those in SA cherish the memory.

Trouble is, there just wasn't enough money in SA, and the game moved to where the money was (Vic) and instantly, with the home advantage lost, SA teams fell away, VFL teams were made stronger by playing at 'home', and non-VFL clubs sunk to where they were really just making up the numbers. Thankfully, around then, the VFL started going national and the idea was killed off as redundant (well, technically it morphed into the pre season comp, but...).

 

[raymond35]

Does anybody know what happened to Springvales old ground? Is it still a footy/cricket oval or is it long gone?

 

[LeverPuller]

The reality is that Casey nearly went to the wall 3? years ago and the MFC bailed them out. Whole relationship changed with that.

Look, I don't like it from a historic perspective, but it is logical in every other aspect. Melbourne have been flooding Casey anyway - if you live in the area you understand. Hell, I saw signs with James Harmes on them 2 days ago asking for Casey U12s recruits. Lots of their school work is out this way and a lot of the reason Casey Fields is so massive is because of the money pumped in by the City of Casey due to the 30 year deal.

The good news is that it will probably keep VFL footy in Casey indefinitely, and perhaps lead to a Ballarat-style redevelopment at Casey in the long term. There's no home ground for a Melbourne VFL side to play out of now - Junction Oval is going to cricket, and every other AFL standard ground (Olympic Park, IKON, Punt Rd) is spoken for or completely unfeasible (Gosch's). The only other option would be leasing off one of the private schools and that'd interfere with the VAFA. I expect that Casey will end up like Box Hill and Preston.

That said, there's definitely a place for standalone sides in the VFL. Port and Willy aren't going anywhere. Frankston should be back, and a side above local level down the Peninsula is important for footy down there, particularly after the Saints made a mess in Seaford. Coburg will realistically fail in the medium term due to lack of backing. North Ballarat should survive though.

I think the question is: what should the VFL look like? Is it a Reserve/Dev league for the AFL or is it a fully fledged comp in its own right?

 

[Upgrayedd]

Who went to a VFL game last year? Any members?

 

[LeverPuller]

Who went to a VFL game last year? Any members?

I did. MFC club membership gets you into Casey for free.

 

[master bate]

They aren't just changing the nickname. They are becoming a Reserves side in all but name. The same thing has happened before, to Box Hill and Preston, and will happen to Sandringham when Moorabbin is ready to host them.

The loss of even the veneer of independence shows the lack of power ex-VFA clubs have, and the fact AFL Victoria has allowed it, along with the dispensing of Frankston, shows the future for other non-reserves clubs isn't very bright. How long before Coburg, Port and Willi are not required, and Werribee starts wearing a Norf jumper?

Hardly a shock that AFL Victoria have prioritise the importance of AFL clubs over former VFA clubs. The VFA died when the VFL started playing on Sundays.

Sadly some of those clubs you mentioned will have choices to make and the AFL will have a big choice to make about national reserves etc, but that's not for now.

Look at the history of VFA clubs. It's a mess which is what you expect from a secondary league with a turbulent history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League#Former_clubs

 

[Whats a Battle]

Hardly a shock that AFL Victoria have prioritise the importance of AFL clubs over former VFA clubs. The VFA died when the VFL started playing on Sundays.

Sadly some of those clubs you mentioned will have choices to make and the AFL will have a big choice to make about national reserves etc, but that's not for now.

Look at the history of VFA clubs. It's a mess which is what you expect from a secondary league with a turbulent history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League#Former_clubs

Out of curiosity, does anyone know/remember anything about the Sunshine Crows? They've always fascinated me, but I've never been able to find anyone that supported them back in the 70s/80s. Footage is so hard to find, and I would love to know more about the club.

 

[footyfan1978]

Hardly a shock that AFL Victoria have prioritise the importance of AFL clubs over former VFA clubs. The VFA died when the VFL started playing on Sundays.

Sadly some of those clubs you mentioned will have choices to make and the AFL will have a big choice to make about national reserves etc, but that's not for now.

Look at the history of VFA clubs. It's a mess which is what you expect from a secondary league with a turbulent history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League#Former_clubs

In a thread I read mostly from many that have little clue of VFA football or attended it is good to see someone in touch make a comment.
Yep, basically was killed off when the VFL started playing Sunday football regularly.

The name Casey holds no significance to the history of this league.
Once Springvale name went it was as good as killing off the club identity anyway.
Only Port Melbourne and Williamstown of the traditional VFA clubs remain with identity in tact.
The Sandringham name still exists and footy at Beach Road oval but after that there is not much sign of anything of VFA heritage left at all. Weird thread to see so many not understand the club names of VFA were clubs like Prahran, Coburg, Preston, Geelong West, Dandenong, Sandringham, Williamstown and Port Melbourne when the league still had a good following. Since VFA went in early 1990's the mess left is not VFA that it is a farce to make out as if Casey gone is anything like the horrors of what got lost long ago.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Does anybody know what happened to Springvales old ground? Is it still a footy/cricket oval or is it long gone?

It's still there. Springvale has a Southern FL team that plays there and there's a Springvale cricket club that played there. I used to live five minutes from there and took my dogs for a walk there everyday. Southern FL had their grand final there (this was 2011), not sure if they still do. The ground is in great condition, the grass is always perfect and there's a lot of sheltered areas and a nice grandstand.

Some photos in this thread.

 

[Topkent]

The reality is that Casey nearly went to the wall 3? years ago and the MFC bailed them out. Whole relationship changed with that.

Look, I don't like it from a historic perspective, but it is logical in every other aspect. Melbourne have been flooding Casey anyway - if you live in the area you understand. Hell, I saw signs with James Harmes on them 2 days ago asking for Casey U12s recruits. Lots of their school work is out this way and a lot of the reason Casey Fields is so massive is because of the money pumped in by the City of Casey due to the 30 year deal.

The good news is that it will probably keep VFL footy in Casey indefinitely, and perhaps lead to a Ballarat-style redevelopment at Casey in the long term. There's no home ground for a Melbourne VFL side to play out of now - Junction Oval is going to cricket, and every other AFL standard ground (Olympic Park, IKON, Punt Rd) is spoken for or completely unfeasible (Gosch's). The only other option would be leasing off one of the private schools and that'd interfere with the VAFA. I expect that Casey will end up like Box Hill and Preston.

That said, there's definitely a place for standalone sides in the VFL. Port and Willy aren't going anywhere. Frankston should be back, and a side above local level down the Peninsula is important for footy down there, particularly after the Saints made a mess in Seaford. Coburg will realistically fail in the medium term due to lack of backing. North Ballarat should survive though.

I think the question is: what should the VFL look like? Is it a Reserve/Dev league for the AFL or is it a fully fledged comp in its own right?

Depends doesn't it, we need an AFL reserves now that most sides are running with one however you still need a strong competition for guys who don't get drafted without them having to go back to the bush
I think an AFL reserves with 4 or 6 AFL funded stand alone teams Is the go, that gives another 150 odd more list spots to blokes test themselves against AFL listed players

Should be concentrating on the areas without an AFL team that are large
Gippsland, Ballarat, Frankston etc
The AFL would obviously need to tip money into these

 

[walhawk]

Springvale started to decline decades ago when the suburb became mainly Vietnamese. That killed the social club and crowds which destroyed their finances.
All the good local players went to Noble Park. This is what made them decide to team up with AFL reserves and rebrand Casey.
No supporters followed them to Cranbourne.
That is when Springvale died - 15 years ago.
You cannot be killed twice. This new announcement is of little consequence to anybody.

However, yes, the AFL and VFA mucked up their merger. Could have been done so much metter.
We will end up with Port, Willi and the 10 reaerves clubs. Maybe Werribee will keep some of its soul but the others are simply reserves clubs. I can tell you that there is not a single Box Hill Mustangs suporter left (not that there were many to begin with, but there were a few hundred). The last ones (a dozen or so regulars) left when they started wearing the Hawthorn jumper about five years ago.
Having said that I love BHH - I live around the corner and take my kids regularly. Only ever went to one Mustangs game before the merger.

The result of all of this is a shame but inevitable. There is no interest in state league footy in Victoria, except as a trickle down from AFL support.
The biggest non AFL clubs are suburban clubs like Vermont, who out draw most VFL matches.

 

[Power Raid]

It's just a name change

 

[Whats a Battle]

Springvale started to decline decades ago when the suburb became mainly Vietnamese. That killed the social club and crowds which destroyed their finances.

Yup that's what causes a club's decline...

 

[barrackers]

The death of these VFA clubs has been a slow burn since the merging of the AFL reserves and VFA in the '90s, cheaper licence fees for VFA/AFL aligned clubs contributed as AFL clubs looking to save a buck aligned themselves with a VFA club instead of going it alone. Obviously there's mismanagement along the way and some clubs wouldn't have survived even if the AFL reserves weren't integrated into the comp, but I'm sure some would have survived better in a separate comp. Once teams aligned with an AFL club a lot of die hard supporters felt disenchanted, which in turn lead to tighter alignments including AFL clubs taking on board positions at their VFA partners and a bigger drop off of VFA support.

In terms of the scorpions it's bit weird how Casey are trying to sell it as a means to strengthen their brand as like Preston they'll have none of their original identity left instead they'll be trading off the name of the local council and nickname of Melbourne. Even though they haven't saved much else Box Hill and soon to be Sandringham have at least kept their original name.

The money benefits for AFL clubs is obvious and this action also allows Melbourne to strengthen it's relationship with the Casey area. While they could have gone a long way to doing this without the scorpions I can't imagine 2 VFL sides being based at Casey Fields had they chosen to have the route of a stand alone reserves team.